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RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/30/2007 7:11:57 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline 		My personal understanding and from observation and communication with others, is that a submissive is someone who values them self and seeks a Dominant who will value her as much if not more than them self. In this case the Dominant adds value to the submissive. Meaning they are highly rewarded when the Master is happy with them, yet firmly put into place, when needed. Pleasure/pain is a part of this, as well as wanting to keep the Master happy and nurtured.
A slave however, (and this is a personal opinion, and not of all cases of course,) is someone who has no boundaries, will do anything their Master will tell them, they have no strength of will, and if any, will allow it to be broken. But there can be also great strength in being a slave, and i am sure there are some that value themselves but learn from the lessons of humiliation and degradation, as in a humble and humility experience. There are some that call themselves submissive, but i would beg to differ on their self opinion, i spoke with one recently, and she was clearly a slave, in a very negative sense, she said she would do anything for even a small amount of affection. She explained how she had been taken advantage of Dominants, who forced her to do things aboe and well beyond her physical/psychological/emotional pain tolerance, and she is clearly psychologically damaged.
It is all learning, a very personal journey, into the well of your being, you have a jewel inside you no one has the right to damage, being submissive is opening yourself to expose that gift to your Dom, and any respecting Dom would not damage that center. Listen to yourself, your body, mind and heart, push your boundaries if you have to to work out where they are. And if your say you are Married to your Dom, then you need to be sure to take time to understand yourself, and process, dont communicate about things you are not sure about, and i dont mean avoidance, just communicate the things you are sure about.
For me personally my Master values me, cares for me, and spoils me senseless, however he can be firm and hard, and even a bit Sadistic at times. He allows me to top, but in doing so it is an illusion in a sense, as he will pull me down when he feels appropriate. This is where we play with top and bottom, however, being naturally submissive and him naturally Dominant he still holds the power, over the energy, and our roles allow us to charge each other in the freedom of our natural expression. But there is nothing that tops the feeling of being splayed out, no restraints, and saying "i am fully open to you right now Master..." It is breathtaking for a Master to witness such beauty, to touch the very depths of your essence and caress your inner diamond...
Every journey begins with one step, tread safely, and surely...

(in reply to Mystique567)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/30/2007 9:54:20 AM   
zindyslave


Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your advice. Stella in reply to you post: I am stressed out about what I thought I wanted and what I have been feeling about that decision. I wanted to be his sub/slave but something inside me won't let me....it is hard to explain...It is hard for me to tell anyone my feelings unless it is written down...I can write everything I feel down but I can't for the life of me actually say it...I love him and I know he loves me it is just we are both new to this and I guess it just makes it harder to actually know what we both want out of this type of relationship. Thank you all again for your advice.

_____________________________

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Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/30/2007 11:27:52 AM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zindyslave

I have been wondering this for quite a while since I don't really know if I can live as a sub/slave and I still enjoy all the kinks in the bedroom I was just wondering what exactly a bottom is and how it is different from being a sub/slave.

The definitions are going to be as many and as different from another as the people who define it.

For me the difference is d/s. Bottoms don't do d/s or do it only in very limited and fixed time/place/mood.
Subs go with the power exchange dynamics of some or more sort.

(in reply to zindyslave)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/30/2007 12:23:58 PM   
Angelsmile


Posts: 113
Joined: 12/20/2005
Status: offline 		I had the same question some years ago and been told by a so-called experienced dom that when You have only a play-relationship or only play occassionally with whatever dominant yuo meet i.e. a BDSM party or event than it is called Top/bottom and when it is a real relationship with emotions, love etc. included and not just playing/scening than it is called sub or when it goes even deeper into the direction TPE slave.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/30/2007 12:28:16 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Then write it down for him.  Tell him why you are writing it down.  You say you cannot define the terms of what you want to him.  Can he define them?  You are asking us to define them for you however everyone defines them differently.  Hence what we say may not be what he believes.  Then you still have issues.

You either need to sit down and talk with him.  Or start an e-mail conversation with him so you can speak your mind.

Communication is the key.

(in reply to zindyslave)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/30/2007 12:35:41 PM   
captainblack


Posts: 146
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline 		I can not resist.......

bottom: noun: a cargo ship (Example: "They did much of their overseas trade in foreign bottoms")

sub: noun: short for submarine

They are both ships, but one wants to be only on TOP of the water and the other can be ON TOP or UNDER THE WATER with ease and can of course cause a bottom (cargo ship) to become a sub of sorts.

I hope this has helped clear things up for everyone that has been misusing these terms!

CB

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(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/30/2007 1:47:44 PM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Angelsmile

I had the same question some years ago and been told by a so-called experienced dom that when You have only a play-relationship or only play occassionally with whatever dominant yuo meet i.e. a BDSM party or event than it is called Top/bottom and when it is a real relationship with emotions, love etc. included and not just playing/scening than it is called sub or when it goes even deeper into the direction TPE slave.


I'd say that would be a huge misconception. Being in a loving relationship and playing with my spouse occationally doesn't make me submissive. I'm still a bottom.

(in reply to Angelsmile)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/30/2007 4:36:03 PM   
zindyslave


Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		the problem is Sub4hire is he doesn't know what they mean either so it is kinda what ever we define it as is what it will be...but what I seem to be hearing is that a bottom only submits for a limited amount of time or in the bedroom...which is basically what I was trying to verify.

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http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to Viridana)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/31/2007 5:56:40 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline 		Maybe you can define a living contract between you, of what you are willing to give over, how you are to serve him, and what his responsibilities are, then you can add or edit when appropriate, it works for some ppl esp when you are new to it.
Are you involved in any local BDSM communities?
I was hesitant of a lot of things until i became involved with others in the lifestyle, i went to a BDSM club which enlightened me to alot of things, like i was very suss about knife play and fire play, but having witness such things being played with enlightened my fear.
Just go slowly, most Doms know that a sub doesn't give everything over immediately, it is a process, as you play more, and push the limits more, you gain more trust, and give more of yourself. It is like any other relationship, I assume you didn't agree to marry your husband the day you met him, you developed your relationship over time. Now you have started a fresh relationship, you must unlearn, to learn and unlearn...
Can you tap into the source of what it is that wont let you? Is it fear? Is it will? Is there a need to be in control of some aspect?

(in reply to zindyslave)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/31/2007 10:57:54 AM   
zindyslave


Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		I think I am scared to give over control...the thing is I don't know why. It might be that I feel like my life is going out of control and I want something to be in control over. I don't know really..it is hard to explain. I am not involved in any local BDSM communities because the nearest one hasn't been meeting much and I don't really have a way to get to the meetings right now. I like the idea of the living contract thing you brought up...I will talk to him about it and I guess we will see how it goes from there.

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 7/31/2007 11:53:04 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		Zindy, I think it may be a good thing that he doesnt know what the labels mean either...then you can both throw away all preconcieved notions and create your own definitions.

Possibly print out this thread and show it to him?

Explain what you want, not with labels, just like you did here..then if later you want a label you can create your own.

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to zindyslave)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 8/1/2007 5:31:10 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline 		Okay you put that very well, it not that you want to control, it is giving up control...
Maybe some things to think about...
Where have you (and him) always had control in your relationship? Do you need that control?
Were there strong feelings, conflicts, or power struggles in your relationship before you entered BDSM?
What are the patterns of feeling 'out of control' in your life?
Were they always there? Began at a certain 'time' of your life?
In what areas do you feel your life going out of control? Your home? Your Work? Your emotions?
Do you trust that he is able to take control and calm those storms?
The reasons for me choosing the right Dom is someone who is going to challenge me, who may actually understand me better than i do myself in those periods of being out of or in control. For me at those times i think 'oh what the hell, my life is so out of control (or i am so controlled) and am going to give it to someone else...' At times i have been pushed so far out of my usual physical/psychological/emotional comfort zone, that it forced me to behave with more focus and control over myself. Objective humiliation clearly brought up to me what was the biggest issues in my life that i could not face previously. i was then able to objectify these issues etc and dissect them and look at each part with strategy, implementation, and conclusive thoughts.
In previous relationships i would make a safe place, i would go for a walk and find the same place every time. In this place i allowed myself to totally be me, focusing on taking all external controls, and other peoples voices away. Upon returning i would be clearer about things, and usually more obedient and pleasent, but sometimes not.
Now, i live alone, and ensure periods of space from my partner, even though we are 24/7 D/s. Recently we have switched, now when we come together for a scene we feel the energy and determine who is going to top and bottom (we are switches, so different again.) After a scene we communicate, and spend some time coming back to our everyday reality, again it goes back to our usual connection of him Dom and me sub in the more subtle displays of our relationship.
Maybe you can detatch yourself from the ideas you already have on the personality of your partner and think about what kind of Dominant you would like... and how he can add values to you. It doesnt matter what toys or games you use in the bedroom, it is the power, control and psychology, whether in the bedroom (or sexually) or in other areas that is what D/s is. It is my submission that allows me to be Dominated ;)
Or alternatively just give it up. Let go, Give yourself over fully, even if just for an hour or a few. Like you are standing with your back on the edge of a rooftop, and let go, fall, plummet, and trust that your Dom will catch you.

As for getting back to the original question.... did you try wiki?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_and_bottom_in_sex_and_BDSM

(in reply to zindyslave)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 8/1/2007 7:32:08 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think, AGAIN, that you guys are rushing to BECOME something, rather than just letting things go and seeing where you ARE, and feeling comfortable right there.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 8/1/2007 11:58:15 AM   
zindyslave


Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for your advice, ExquisiteFeline, and LA. I guess it is hard to understand how to just let things happen.....

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 8/1/2007 1:07:53 PM   
subitodolce


Posts: 39
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		It's possible to be a submissive, but not hold the position 24/7. It all depends on what works for you. My Sir prefers that I have a bit of independence about me ("I want a partner, not a slave"), and it really depends on how the mood strikes us. There are some days where he requests that I spend the whole day in my cuffs, and there are some days where we just want to flop on the couch and watch a movie. There are nights where I sleep tied up, and there are some nights where he wants my head on his chest.

He finds it comforting that I am not a 24/7 submissive. He feels much safer knowing that I can care for myself independently (job/life has us physically seperated at the moment) and after this weekend, he knows that I can defend myself (I've proven my prowess with a 22, and he tried to throw me in the river, and I threw /him/ in twice before he was able to drag me into the water...and he's a foot taller than me). He also loves having that "voice of reason" to knock him upside the head every once in a while.

Have a talk with your Sir. Start out slow, and see where your comfort area lies. This lifestyle accepts all sorts. There is no black/white, so find that nifty gray area inbetween that suits you best. Good luck!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 8/1/2007 1:41:08 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zindyslave

I have been wondering this for quite a while since I don't really know if I can live as a sub/slave and I still enjoy all the kinks in the bedroom I was just wondering what exactly a bottom is and how it is different from being a sub/slave.


The difference lies in the level of devotion/dedication to oneself vs the dominant party beings served.

Anyone can bottom, not all can be a slave.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to zindyslave)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 8/15/2007 1:37:38 PM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		In my mind, the difference in either Top/bottom and Master/slave or Dom/sub is the exchange of power/control/authority.
 
To me, the people who partner up with Tops or bottoms are EQUAL partners; their interaction is more about Sado-mascochism than about Dominance and submission.
 
I do not, however, believe for a minute that their interest or commitment to their activities are one bit less-than anybody elses.
 
B

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A must read for submissives! (click here)

This one, as well!

(in reply to zindyslave)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 8/15/2007 4:15:29 PM   
OneEvilBastard


Posts: 15
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Top/bottom originally came from homosexual kink and were exactly what they sound like: the person who was on top (doing the act) and the person who was on the bottom (receiving the act).

Dominant/submissive comes from a place that describe power exchange.

In an ideal, lexically clear world, I'd argue that a top/bottom is someone who gives/receives acts, primarily from the sensation perspective, whereas a dominant/submissive is someone who exerts/surrenders power.

By that definition, it's entirely reasonable for a dominant to also be a bottom ("Beat with that now, you bastard! I want to enjoy the sensation!") and for a submissive to be a top ("Of course. Tell me what feels best for you? Would you like it harder? Softer?")

Of course, like anything, the moment a second person started using the terms, they were taken to have whatever meaning each individual felt them to mean. They've been in use for so long now, by so many different people, with no single point of authority in the scene, that they mean very different things to very different people and no one definition really exists anymore.

It's a shame though. With a little more clarity, a lot of hurt could be avoided. I've seen too many people call themselves "dominants" when they actually just prefer serving people with their flogging skills or ropework, too many people call themselves "bottoms" and be expected to serve like submissives, etc. That we have such poorly defined terms means that way too many people have either assumed things that aren't true about others or felt the weight of those assumptions on themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Whats the difference between a bottom and sub? - 8/15/2007 6:25:41 PM   
Hisbellaluna


Posts: 127
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		to the OP....i didn't read all the responses, and i am not going to define anything for you...what i am going to post is what worked for me...while i was looking, if some one asked me if i was a bottom, submissive or slave i asked them their definition and then picked which one of theirs best described me...it varries from person to person, sometimes to the extreme, before i met my Sir i would have claimed that i could only be a bottom...now, i know that in his eyes i can be slave...maybe still in the "engagement" period at this time but i am working on it...if someone needs to know your label, find out their definitions to save on confusion...otherwise, don't worry about it...
good luck

His bella luna
beta slave under consideration and in training to Master Ken
sister to Alpha Slave J


_____________________________

Formerly known as chellekitty...

Do not be like servants who serve their masters expecting to receive a reward; be rather like servants who serve their master unconditionally, with no thought of reward. --Antigonus of Sokho

(in reply to OneEvilBastard)
Profile   Post #: 39
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