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RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 4:34:14 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I have a question for you McWhips... have you ever met a Domme you liked? Maybe two? And if all you can do is complain about how we are money grubbing bitches, why do you want to serve one of us so badly?

Note that I'm not flaming you, I just haven't come across any of your posts where you have something nice to say about Dominant women and I'm a little perplexed.

- LA



Ok Ive thought about it and I cant think of anything nice to say about the Dommes mentioned by the OP, ok now its your turn, you say something nice about them seeing as I cant.


At the risk of stirring something even though I am trying to cool it off, I think Lady Angelika's comments were not intended about the Op's Dommes. She had asked if there were ANY Dommes you liked, because of some of the comments that you have made in the past. I am not trying to flame either, I am trying to diffuse at this point, McWhips. I think all agree that there are people that are nice, not so nice, good, bad, pro, non-pro, vanilla and WIITWD people on this planet. Her question was a simple one to you...had you met ANY Dommes that you liked. She was not trying to flame you or the OP, as I am not either. I personally think it's a shame you and the OP have been so disillusioned, I would hate to think it affects the possibility of a future possible relationship for either of you. To go off thread for a moment, I have had someone that quit sending long emails to Dommes because of the response they received (or didn't receive) from others. Yet the long email was what I wanted. They explained the disillusionment from the past which I understand. The point is we almost didn't get that far BECAUSE of the preconceived notion arising from that disillusionment. I hope you do not stay disillusioned, it may (or may not) effect the probability of you finding the relationship you supposedly seek.

(in reply to McWhips)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 4:35:26 AM   
McWhips


Posts: 136
Joined: 5/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips
OK you have answered by giving examples of situations you have experienced but you havent really answered my original question of 'What would you think of a male sub who expected you to pay for everything then when asked why they reply with 'Well you want to play dont you?'


I think he shouldn't be so quick to pull out his wallet. I think he should walk away from a Domina who expects him to pay for play, unless of course he approached a ProDomina.

Look, if the woman is a gold digger, nothing is going to change that fact and he is better without her. Walking away is the only solution. Hopefully walking away before he opened his wallet.

Does it suck, sure! How many times have I met guys who woo me only because they want to be Dominated? They don't want me, my hopes, my dreams, my mind, my smile... they see me as a spanking machine. I walk away from them and focus on the magnificent boys and girls in this world who have served *me* well.

- LA




Sorry you seem to have misunderstood the question. I can tell this by your reply of 'I think he shouldn't be so quick to pull out his wallet. I think he should walk away from a Domina who expects him to pay for play, unless of course he approached a ProDomina'.

The question if you read it properly asks what would you think of a MALE SUB that wanted YOU to pay for everything then when you asked why he replied with 'Well you want to play dont you?'

Heres the original question: 'What would you think of a male sub who expected you to pay for everything then when asked why they reply with 'Well you want to play dont you?'

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 4:39:22 AM   
McWhips


Posts: 136
Joined: 5/9/2005
Status: offline 		What makes it so that cos I have an opinion on people who expect you to pay for everything then reply with 'Well you want to play dont you?' when asked why, makes me into a horrible person that hates everyone ever?

(in reply to McWhips)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 4:42:04 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips
OK you have answered by giving examples of situations you have experienced but you havent really answered my original question of 'What would you think of a male sub who expected you to pay for everything then when asked why they reply with 'Well you want to play dont you?'


I think he shouldn't be so quick to pull out his wallet. I think he should walk away from a Domina who expects him to pay for play, unless of course he approached a ProDomina.

Look, if the woman is a gold digger, nothing is going to change that fact and he is better without her. Walking away is the only solution. Hopefully walking away before he opened his wallet.

Does it suck, sure! How many times have I met guys who woo me only because they want to be Dominated? They don't want me, my hopes, my dreams, my mind, my smile... they see me as a spanking machine. I walk away from them and focus on the magnificent boys and girls in this world who have served *me* well.

- LA




Sorry you seem to have misunderstood the question. I can tell this by your reply of 'I think he shouldn't be so quick to pull out his wallet. I think he should walk away from a Domina who expects him to pay for play, unless of course he approached a ProDomina'.

The question if you read it properly asks what would you think of a MALE SUB that wanted YOU to pay for everything then when you asked why he replied with 'Well you want to play dont you?'

Heres the original question: 'What would you think of a male sub who expected you to pay for everything then when asked why they reply with 'Well you want to play dont you?'



There are times I have paid for everything, but it hasn't been in response to a comment like that, because I have never issued a comment like that from my side either....

(in reply to McWhips)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 4:44:54 AM   
McWhips


Posts: 136
Joined: 5/9/2005
Status: offline 		WEll thats good of you kc, but I am asking you to use your imagination here, it Doesnt matter if a male sub has ever asked you to pay for everything then replyies with 'WEll you want to play dont u?! when asked why. How would u feel IF this happened? Imagine it happening then tell nme your answer.

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 4:57:51 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		I would not be happy. In all likelihood, with an attitude like that, I would not pursue that relationship. It would not, though, disillusion me and make think that all responses in the future from other subs would be like that, nor would it make me expect to hear answers like that from the next person, even if I had heard that from more than one.....since EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.

< Message edited by kc692 -- 6/29/2005 4:59:10 AM >

(in reply to McWhips)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 5:03:05 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

At the risk of stirring something even though I am trying to cool it off, I think Lady Angelika's comments were not intended about the Op's Dommes. She had asked if there were ANY Dommes you liked, because of some of the comments that you have made in the past. I am not trying to flame either, I am trying to diffuse at this point, McWhips. I think all agree that there are people that are nice, not so nice, good, bad, pro, non-pro, vanilla and WIITWD people on this planet. Her question was a simple one to you...had you met ANY Dommes that you liked. She was not trying to flame you or the OP, as I am not either. I personally think it's a shame you and the OP have been so disillusioned, I would hate to think it affects the possibility of a future possible relationship for either of you.


You hit the nail on the head KC.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 5:05:02 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		Kisses,chica!!! Have a wonderful day!!!!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 5:08:11 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		You are just looking for an argument, hmm? Well you will not get me into one. I'm here to have meaningful, productive conversations. You still have an opportunity to engage in one with me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips
Sorry you seem to have misunderstood the question.
[...]
The question if you read it properly asks what would you think of a MALE SUB that wanted YOU to pay for everything then when you asked why he replied with 'Well you want to play dont you?'


And I did not. In post 12. I wrote:

quote:

I've never had a sub say "pay or I won't play". I have had a sub pay and then expect to play. Which is why I developed the personal policy described above that you seemed to appreciate.


Ok, so hypothetically, if a sub said pay for play, I would do exactly what I suggested a male sub would do. I would walk away and move to the next one.

I tend to not dwell on losers and focus my energy on winners.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to McWhips)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 5:09:30 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What makes it so that cos I have an opinion on people who expect you to pay for everything then reply with 'Well you want to play dont you?' when asked why, makes me into a horrible person that hates everyone ever?


I'm not sure who you are addressing this to, as you responded to yourself.

No one here accused you of hating everyone ever. I simply asked you to write something positive. Wishful thinking perhaps on my part.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to McWhips)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 5:12:11 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692

Kisses,chica!!! Have a wonderful day!!!!


You too chica :)

And to you McWhips, please have a wonderful day as well. I hope that you will realise that I was trying to engage you into something positive and not negative. Show me that you are a capable of it.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 5:53:12 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips

I think you are mistaking prostitutes or borderline prostitutoin for normal people here. Its pretty obvious to me considering that when you say 'why should I have to pay for everything' they reply with 'Well you want to play', Just put 2 and 2 together and you will draw the same conclusion!


Which is amusing considering a majority of submissives I have discussed this with feel absolutely that the dominant is financially responsible for dates.

(in reply to McWhips)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 6:01:57 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		As to the question asked...

quote:

'What would you think of a male sub who expected you to pay for everything then when asked why they reply with 'Well you want to play dont you?'

I have never had this occur, but using imagination as suggested, a statement like this would most likely occur prior to actually getting together for a 'playful interaction'. If a submissive were to say I had to pay to play I would say I guess we aren't playing. I know what the OP is getting at & it is a sad fact to deal with these days. So many women are finding a market for financial gain & call it "lifestyle" to make it all warm & fuzzy. So many will say they are not a pro, but they need a tribute in order to prove you are sincere. Bunch of BS. Just a few days ago I see a new member here post in introductions & from my area, so I think I'll say hi... as I read on, she has a processing fee for all subs/slaves to pay since she has to spend so much time sorting through these applications (eye roll)

Yet are these women evil... NO

If men were not actually paying there would be no market & scams like this & attitudes like the OP expressed would not be present.

This is a completely different niche within the diversity that exists within this whole thing summed up as a "LIFESTYLE". Compare this to any other multi-cultural/multi-ethnic/multi-background, high class, low class, no class, proper to tacky mish-mosh combination of people that form a group/community/commonality & the same type of disorder & differences will exist. One segment will claim they are the real deal & the next will just shout out, we are persecuted for our differences.

Anyone reading this that have lived & existed in the 'lifestyle based community' will be nodding & recall the proverbial burning torches... LOL


Back to the OP's post... In my case, it simply just would not happen... meaning that I would find myself having to pay for all the arrangements. I believe in sharing costs & have always shared the cost. It is not even a 50/50... I have paid my own travel expense & had only food/refreshments provided while visiting. This would all fall into the getting to know you part of meeting someone. It sounds as though by your experience that there has been more than one very rushed convos that lead up to a play-date. I take a great deal of time talking with new people which brings up something I also read within this thread...

quote:

LadyAngelika-
How many times have I met guys who woo me only because they want to be Dominated? They don't want me, my hopes, my dreams, my mind, my smile... they see me as a spanking machine.


It would be impossible to number the times I have been faced with the very same type of sub.

Thus my reason for a lengthy getting to know you period. If they don't care to share that part of themself nor want to find this out about me, then we simply are not a good match. I know what I ultimately want & a mere spankable bootie play date is not what I want. A person that just wants to have a dominant facilitate this for them needs to find a dominant that just needs a practice target or one that is not relationship minded. Does this difference in goal or desire make one bad... NOPE, just different.

I've rambled long enough... off to work. Yup I am a Domme that pays her own bills thank you

MstrssPassion

(in reply to McWhips)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 6:21:27 AM   
sudja


Posts: 155
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:


I agree with you LA, the subs themselves (SOME, not all, Mcwhips, I am not trying to start a flame)) seem to equate the fact of paying with the right of deciding to play. That is why I also, if I have the slightest inkling that the act pf paying for something means they think the certainty is established to play from that action, I remove that certainty.


::shrug::

The person who can afford it should pay, or both.

That said, I would prefer to always pay when I am in a position to do so.

THAT said, early in our discussions/relationship, my Mistress would not let me do so, send Her things, help Her out, until She was certain that I did not believe that created a quid pro quo situation.

It's very simple to avoid the instance of equate the fact of paying with the right of deciding to play by spending a bit of time talking with the person.

If it's a problem - then the problem is not properly vetting, not the expectation of the person.

sudja


(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 6:24:01 AM   
sudja


Posts: 155
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I was simply remarking that many of the posts that I read from you are to talk about how horrible certain Dommes are but, and please correct me if I'm wrong, very few are about how wonderful Dommes are.

I'm not always impressed with the general mass of submissive men out there. But I like to focus on the good ones and use them as examples instead of always giving the spotlight to the bad ones.


I think you make the right point here - anybody can call themselves a Dom/me or a submissive. That doesn't mean anything.

I tend to stray away from terms like "bad Domme" or "bad submissive." I just make a mental note that they aren't what they purport to be.

I do know a woman who identifies herself as a Domme whose theory is that there is no "bad Domme" (or "bad submissive") just the "wrong one for you."

I don't buy her theory (heck, her "submissive" rules the roost - who is the Domme there?) entirely, but she does have a bit of a point.

sudja

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 6:25:31 AM   
sudja


Posts: 155
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips

I think you are mistaking prostitutes or borderline prostitutoin for normal people here. Its pretty obvious to me considering that when you say 'why should I have to pay for everything' they reply with 'Well you want to play', Just put 2 and 2 together and you will draw the same conclusion!


Which is amusing considering a majority of submissives I have discussed this with feel absolutely that the dominant is financially responsible for dates.



I don't get it - on what basis could they ever form such an opinion?

sudja


(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 6:28:29 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Which is amusing considering a majority of submissives I have discussed this with feel absolutely that the dominant is financially responsible for dates.



I have had Dominants who've been downright idiotic about paying for everything and I hate it. When I first meet someone I like things to be on an even keel, at least initially. I've heard men talk and it's amazing how quickly their 'charming' date turns into an opportunistic, cheap, money grubbing bitch when things don't work out the way they want (ie getting a second date, getting laid on the first date, etc). Until I'm comfortable and the relationship is more established I like to keep the bill split fairly evenly.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 7:15:40 AM   
perfection20005


Posts: 419
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, this turned out to be a big argument! I think it is discussed and then decided if one is going to pay, or if its going to be a split. I think a lot of Doms assume its their responsibility, just because they are the dominant one, but it doesn't have to be that way. I feel like a sub can pay also, and not take anything away from the dominant still feeling like a Dom.

perfection

(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 7:24:07 AM   
Oumae


Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		On first meeting and in the early getting to know someone stage I like to pay my own way...as said before by others I have no wish to have anyone think I am obliged to them. Once I feel we are closer I may allow them to treat me sometimes (many subs do actually like to treat their Domme) as I will treat them sometimes( yes, even us Dommes can like to treat our subs!). In what feels like a good relationship to me money shouldnt be an issue thus I wouldnt be counting who had spent more... with good friends I don't measure... if I have money I pay if they do they pay, we look out for each other.

If someone is insisting you pay and you dont want to, don't meet them. That may sound simplified but it works.... McWhips asks what Dommes would do if asked to pay... I'd walk away if someone expected me to pay all the time. I wouldn't let it colour my view of every sub tho'.. there are all types in all walks of life. Focus on the positive and you have a better chance of finding what you seek.

Oumae



_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Who should pay? - 6/29/2005 7:55:10 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		Man o man o man. Thats all i can think of at this moment. I never thought this would 'cause an argument between people. Im happy to get replies and this many but im sorry to the people that ive caused to argue.

(in reply to Oumae)
Profile   Post #: 40
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