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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 2:15:50 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave
i think you're glossing over an important distinction here. i think that there are people who have a different set of expectations for a kink discussion forum than they do for The Rest Of The World.


Excellent point and you're absolutely right. There is an expectation that one will be tolerated and accepted into forums such as these. Unfortunatly, any number of folks will be more than happy to point out that such expectations are not going to be met because people are people and the same people out there who are going to invalidate you or your beliefs are the exact same folks who post to these sorts of forums. We all are, after all, members of the same human race.

Too, I think it's somewhat of a double-edged sword. Coming in with an expectation of tolerance then blasting out One True Way isn't condusive to discussion. It's seems as if sometimes people are shocked that One True Way isn't tolerated!

quote:

But, when someone who enjoys being dressed up as a dog and violated with a rubber cow femur calls you a freak, it's like WTF? And that can inspire a few different reactions.
One is to say "Oh yeah? Well you're an even bigger freak, freak!"
Another is to say "Well, wait a minute here... can't you see that we're really not that different here??"


I absolutely agree. "What I do is 'kink' what you do is 'sick'" is often seen on forums like these. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me, but there you have it.

quote:

And if you're inclined to self-reflection, perhaps the follow-up to that is "...well, maybe there really IS something wrong with me?"


This, to me, is the crux of the issue and such a profound thought. Perhaps the most important one in this thread. When we invalidate, and fail to tolerate, we feed into the sheep mentality that is so prevalent and causes folks like myself to wonder exactly what the fuck IS wrong with us and it can take, literally, years to develop a healthy self-esteem when you're starting out with two strikes against you already. You think you're fucked up and everyone else thinks you're fucked up as well. Then you go to a place where there are more fucked up people than a 2 dollar brothel and 'they' think you're fucked up too! Well, three strikes and you're out.. ain't that the way it works? All I can really do is chant my mantra.. YKIOK.. as soon as you believe it, then it really is.. okay.

Thank you so very much, Dave for sharing your thoughts here. What a great contribution to the thread.

Celeste

edit for quote fix

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 8/7/2007 2:44:17 PM >


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 2:29:38 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
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Yep

(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 2:48:40 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora


We are the 1%ers of the sexuality brigade.  We put up with enough ignorance from outside the pack to put up with it from within??? Could be ignore being called names from within the pack, or brush the clueless, misinformed or unenlightened to the corners of the dungeon? Sure, but you're missing out on a unique opportunity for education.  Sometimes arguing for the sake of arguing is amusing.  More often than not, taking the opportunity to really discuss the other sides to a topic -- not just "this is my opinion" but clearly expressing reasoning and thought process -- that fosters growth, learning and enlightenment.


I love it! Would that everyone had this attitude, Pandora. Truly, you have always been and remain a credit to your Title. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 3:39:35 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear BitaTruble, Ladies and Gentlemen;

For me, I don't mind the "my way" and or "the way" statements in topics and or threads. 


Interesting. Do you see no difference between the two? If not, would you mind expanding on this thought a bit? I've already set forth my own thoughts and made an arguement on their difference, so seeing another viewpoint would be the exact thing that I'm looking for to expand my own education.

If you do see a difference then do you approach them in the same manner? If so, what manner would that be and if not, what differing techniques or thoughts do you use in addressing both A) and B) statements?

quote:

 My only displeasure is seeing the posts from individuals making it a personal attack on others.  It is a violation of the forums however, seems some get away with breaking that rule each and every time.


I understand, but would prefer not to have this thread highjacked by that topic or bring that very behavior down upon it and spoil what has, so far, been a drama free and thoughtful discussion. I thank you for your consideration on the issue.

quote:

I personally approach "the way" statements as I do with any area, such as religion, politics and teachers/professors.


As I don't know what your approach is to religion, politics etc, perhaps you won't mind sharing. Anything of substance you'd care to share, I'd be very open to reading.

quote:

Rooted by faith and or passion, it is more of an intense expression of what can be an opinion.


I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you here. One True Way is not set forth as opinion.. which is the problem with it. It's stated as absolute fact.. that's why it's called.. One True Way.

quote:

The teaching profession have many fields which are unchallenged as far as what 'the way' is, such as math, etc.; then there are those areas which takes what is concrete, such as written law and then teach as far as theory goes and or philosophy.  How professors/teachers 'teach'--it is 'the way' but, only works within that structure enviorment and once graduated; real life application is the best teacher which tests the philosophy/theory out. 


I taught for several years and there are certain disciplines which are one true way, math being a prime example of such. Aside from math though teaching is so much more about exposing young minds to new ideas. It's about teaching them critical thinking skills. It's training them to evalute and extrapolate so as to enable them to draw logical conclusions on their own so they have a foundation to take into the real world.  Eh, at least that's the way that I taught. I had some leeway though. I didn't teach math.

I don't know that it has anything, however, to do with this thread even though it's a subject near and dear to my heart. My questions pertain to how certain statements make one feel in the context of what it is that we do. For example, suppose I were to say:

"There is no such thing as a female dominant. Men rule the world and females are just waiting for the right man to come along and make them submit."

Does that statement effect you any differently from:

"I do better in relationships when the man is in charge. I don't understand other dynamics and wouldn't want to be in any other dynamic myself."

That's something which would directly effect you as both a female and a dominant. One is telling you that you are 'wrong' and can't exist and the other is taking a personal viewpoint, owning that personal viewpoint and not telling anyone else they are wrong if that viewpoint is not shared. Are both truly acceptable and if so, does that mean One True Way should really be the order of the day.. and one step further.. whose One True Way should we be using?

I look forward to your further thoughts on the subject.

Celeste


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 4:11:06 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
::snipped for brevity::

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

A statement like "male submissives make my teeth itch" may not seem like much, but that applies to my husband. Who is a delightful person you've never met, and manages to get along with more of humanity and charm more women than I ever will. We're talking about people here. Male Domination isn't anything I'm jonesing for, but I like to take people at face value.

I guess my point is people should think "do I sound like an ass-face if I say this?" before typing or talking and assume that you are speaking to the face of someone who is a member of the group you're about to characterize. I don't think this is a horrid form of oppressive censorship, just a taste of the golden rule that makes it more pleasant to be around each other.





I find this very interesting. I don't see a lot of difference in these two statements.

"Male submissives make my teeth itch."

"Male dominantion isn't anything I'm jonesing for but I like to take people at face value." 

One is worded a little nicer, but they are, to me, saying essentially the same thing.

These are statements of opinion. 

"Male submissives are weak." is not a statement of opinion. To me, there is a subtle but distinct difference.

I like the Golden rule as well.. do unto others etc., but not as well as I like freedom of speech. I do believe that censorship is any form is horrid and oppressive though, so.. I have a feeling that we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I appreciate your thoughts and differing viewpoint and I'm sure your husband is a wonderful guy given that I think you're a pretty cool lady and wouldn't hang with some schmuck.  

Oh, and for the record.. all of the statements I've made in this thread are illustrations of points and may or may not express my actual viewpoints. They were set there for the soul purpose of discussion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 4:14:06 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

The only time anyone's beliefs bother me is when they attempt to push them in my space in real life.  For instance my dom and I are monogamous...so don't push yourself on us trying to get us to play outside of our relationship.
Things like that.  For the rest of the world they are entitled to believe or do anything they wish.  I don't care what quirks they have.




Thank you for pointing out the 'real' life connection. I understand completely. Message boards are not the be all, end all of existance. Thanks for sharing.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 4:20:27 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
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From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

this is just a place to exchange thoughts and ideas the world dose not end here.. I take a lot of heat. its fine what is funny when you meet them real time It is like a revalation or something.. life is karma like that. lol oh well. sometimes it is a control issue some feel they have an out let to speak and do things they would not normally do. I am the same online or offline. - the spelling stuff.. some times you just have to say what ever and move on


That's a good point. The internet is famous for it's anonymity. Thank you for pointing that out Latexbaby. It's something to consider when I 'see' One True Way on the boards. It may just be someone talking for the sake of talking who doesn't really believe what they are saying but think it's cool to spew. ::chuckles::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 5:09:40 PM   
Grlwithboy


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Using the fast reply thingie 'cause I seem to have to:

Meh. I guess what I'm advocating is "it'd be cool if people think before sweeping pronouncement du jour" rather than trying to dictate what anyone says. I'm not in the least OK with censorship --anyone can say anything - just don't be surprised if things that are hurtful to people on a personal level are reacted to - well - personally. I mean I think it's just as wrong to dictate people's reactions to perceived slights as it is to dictate what we're allowed to say and not.

And there is a difference, to me, in the syntax and meaning of saying something in a "nice" fashion, if that's what you call a fashion that allows for other people finding enjoyment in something that's not your thing, and reacting in very personal, but aggressively disgusted terms.  I think you get the distinction.

And it just gets old being called upon to explain yourself, which is what happens when people feel compelled to do the "I dont GET" speech --  Perfect example "I just don't GET bisexuality" -- it doesn't mean "I'm just into men" nearly as much as it really means "I've had this explained to me a million times but I don't actually find validity in bisexuals talking about their own lives, so I'm just gonna see if I can use this great soapbox to imply how confused they are because I can't believe they're not no matter how many times I hear it..." etc.

I don't care to be in a male led relationship at this point in my life. I get it. I get the appeal, I get what people who need it get out of it. It's not some weeeeird sexual mystery that makes me have to go "ew ew ew" it's just not my life. I'm so mellow about it that maybe it could be my life or will be in ten years or something, but it's not where I look for fulfillment.

Oh, and examples were assumed to be examples. :) as are mine.
While I'm advocating sensitivity I'm not one to take all things or even most personally.





(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 5:34:42 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

I like to take people at face value.


I like this too. Raw exchanges are often the most compelling, and from the sidelines, tend to be entertaining.

LaM v. Amayos always makes good theater.

Stef v. Michaelofgeorgia, oooh so pithy.

Feminists v. the Goreans, now that's a hoot. (logic v. emotion, rational v. irrational)

A PMSing Domme v. a hot and bothered, newbie, do-me sub ---- action guaranteed.

Cheaters v. the morality police ---- dogfight to the end....

Caitlyn v. SimplyMichael --- Devil's advocate v. the certain partisan.

Now that I think of it, I'm glad the CMMB is not 75% "Dear Abby."

(in reply to Grlwithboy)
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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 6:16:30 PM   
NefertariReborn


Posts: 381
Status: offline
-fast reply-

I don't advocate censorship in any general way. I do however, reserve the right to use My iggy button.  I'm paying for My internet service and I can decide what I do and do not want to see on a constant basis. There ARE ways to express disagreement WITHOUT flaming.  When I notice that someone is "into" flaming, I really don't care anymore what their opinion is, they get iggied.  I don't think people who have a problem with the flaming are insecure or need to develop thicker skin because "they are on a public forum online."  I'd have to agree with Latex in some regard.  I often wonder if the flaming goes on rt. For My part, I'd have to walk away from rt associations like that as well. I don't expect all of My friends to agree with everything I do or say, but I do expect for them to express their opinion in an intelligent, adult, civilized way.  I'm more likely to listen and consider what they have to say than if they're being a prick. 

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 7:05:32 PM   
LadyHugs


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Dear BitaTruble, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
First, thank you for asking questions and expanding on my thoughts, opinions, observations which are based on my personal experiences. 
 
The thoughts of more similar stances of 'my way' and or 'the way' is on the 'belief' system which I find individuals utter their statements from.  Some respond from personal belief system(s) which are the summary of where people's personal experiences come to head and expressed.   And, the similar stance of "the way" is, also a belief --however it is more than belief on just a personal aspect but, as something that is 'tried and true' as to create uniformity.  I take Math, as simple adding, subtraction, division and multiplication can only be done in only one way and or 'the way.'  No matter what teacher I had -- simple math was --the way. [Chuckles]. 
 
With BDSM and or other variations, beyond the basic it really becomes very personal to which won't be uniformed and attempting to make it uniformed like Simple Math will fail; as it is with the preacher in the pulpit in my church can 'preach/teach' what 'the way' of that religion, etc.,  but--as I listen, it is up to me to make the final choice as to how to 'take' the preaching, teaching and or lecturing of what this or that of religion is and or should be.  I see still, it is just one person expressing passionately of what 'they' believe is 'the way and their version of my way.'  No matter how much passion and or statement of fact that any person may utter--I have to make a personal judgment call on what I am hearing.  Another factor to which I consider, is that no matter what area in society, civilization, religion and 'how to'--I understand my own human nature as to have my own prejudices, bias, pre-determined ideas, philosophies, etc.  I am certain all individuals have their own--But, how I absorb topics, discussions and or debates is with the expectation that all things will be the expression of the individual themself.  No matter how many advice books are written on living life and or living good--it hasn't wiped out everybody's struggles to achieve 'living good.'  And, how one determines what 'living good' is general and with all of us, we have general ideas of what 'is' and what it is 'not'--but, we're all different on how we come by our ideas, goals and the solutions.  Because "A" and "B" come from a person/individual -- it is not the same weight as society, civilization, government, administration and or law.
 
I think discussions like this helps others to understand that approaches to how people read topics on these threads cover a broad range.  I try to take the personnal out of topics and just see the facts at it's face.  Ingredients if you will.  This is why I do not take anything personal until it is an obvious attack on a person and/or my person; and or how they may deliver their thoughts from heart, mind, spirit and or emotions onto text.  Absent of face to face, I tend to be extremely keen to try understanding what may be expressed.  I do understand that not all those who post have the fluid use of American English and or English.  I do understand the aspects of how Dyslexia causes a scrambling which can appear as 'unintelligent and or crude/rude' expressions.  I do believe in my heart, that being kind and patient with others is a strength--not a weakness.
 
As to disagree with my statement, that passionate expression of faith, such as in religion and or what someone feels about something, boils down to me as a 'belief.'  From belief comes opinions and some can be expressed as fact.  That is what makes a great example of what is the point I am attempting to make.  With society, civilization, religion and or politics; we are in general being 'talked to' much in a manner of 'the only way' and or 'the way' and or 'the only true way.'  Much like 'true this or that.'  That said; where this approach fails, is when there is a inquiry as to how such 'truth' came to be.  Most times it goes back to personal belief and or opinions.  In addition, how 'my way is the only true way, etc.,' is seen to me as an incomplete statement--which I mentally chalk in '...for them.'  Perhaps some may see it as a way I keep things from getting into the area of encroaching on my powers as an individual and independent of bully tactics and or prejudices.
 
As with Simple Math, there is 'only one way' of teaching that.  However, depending on an individual teacher's style -- it can be dictator like, to which how problem solving techniques can be achieved however, those who take a different vein in styles of teaching to 'inspire' their students makes, in my personal opinion, a lasting impression and can carry over into other areas of life.
 
As to a specific statement of where a man, for an example, states as 'fact' that all women are submissive to men and Dominant women are just waiting for a man to "master" them;  I feel that such are entitled to their prejudice/bias and beliefs.  I am sure many people will agree and just as many that will disagree.  What is of interest to me though, is how that man came to their prejudice and or beliefs.  I tend to be interested in the person as a human being and to understand where the roots of that person's belief, bias, etc. stem from.  Not be so focused on the baggage and or the hate. 
 
Having had men, especially Heterosexual men --have an open prejudice against women who were dominant, I have personally lived through.  The shoves, the spitting, the sabatoge, the thefts, the personal assaults and threats.  But, that was in the 1970's.  The attitude still exists today but, not in so many obvious ways as when I came through the lifestyle in the '70s.  It was no different for the military--men hated to see women 'want' to serve in combat--or just given the chance to try.  The same prejudices existed in other areas, like law enforcement, fire department and ambulance/EMT areas women wanted to serve in.  The same "male" prejudices existed there as did the lifestyle.  It made it twice as difficult to do things however, it just pounded the iron per se, into a more determined force and power.  I took the quiet route, to which I just tucked all the experiences inside and just bear the time.  And, I will add--not all women carried themselves well and spread their legs to gain.  However, for those of us who knew what we did would effect every woman who followed in the military, in male dominated roles and such in the future; gave me resolve as much as it gave me patience.  I have kept the same thought in the lifestyle.  There were military men who were more open minded and were extremely fair.  Some took a lot of heat for their belief in women having a place in an 'all man's military.'  The same with the lifestyle.  However, the men who were most fair with me, were Gay Leathermen.  They were not easy by any means but, it was a means of weeding those who were not the quality of person they wanted in their personal circles.  Perhaps it was the exclusion of 'sex' and or 'gender;'  Again, I am in the frame of the 1970's and early 1980's.  Since the lifestyle has evolved and networking more efficient, there have been many more open minded Heterosexual men about.  I also feel, an opinion if you will, that those who didn't crumble into submission and maintained a polite manner, that did not try to become 'male' and maintained their nature, faired well.  I am a Dominant and I do not have to convince anyone that I am, especially face to face.  I just take a different approach to how I see things and react to it.  Having been unfairly treated, I know how it changed me as an individual but, I don't harbor the hate or reverse prejudice--as I see how negitive it reflects on those who are hateful.  What has happened then, in the military, the lifestyle and or para-military areas of life for women; is that women are still subjected to male prejudices and domineering factors.  How I react, for me, determines how much control I give them and or powers I allow them.  Statements as fact and or opinions do not bother me, even their prejudices; until it is a direct threat on me as an individual and my personal/physical welfare and or health.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 7:20:53 PM   
VeryMercurial


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Plenty of thick skins and rat asses on here.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 8:07:11 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

I believe there is a difference between my way and the way. My way pertains to my universe. The way is universal and involves setting the tone for everyone else.  


This raises many questions for me.  Is it okay to be intolerant of intolerance?
< I believe that it is, but I’m not sure I can tell you why>
Is there a point where acceptance leads to acquiescence of harm? 
Is nothing universally wrong? 
I’m not being snarky here.  I struggle with this concept. I am fairly understanding of differences……yet sometimes I think we work so hard at tolerance that we are afraid to take a stand against bad things.  I’m not articulating this very well and perhaps I’m overthinking your post.


quote:

A statement of opinion. When responding to such a statement, are we doing so to seek our own validation or is all fair in love and message board discussions?  

I agree that what we say can be made more palatable by how we say it. 
There is a vast area between Pissy and Prissy but many people only stay at one end or the other of that spectrum.  There is art in debate and I admire those who have that talent.  I enjoy a differing point of view when it is presented in a way that makes me review my own opinion to see if it is valid. 
One of the things I have learned in submission is how to speak up in a manner that avoids rancor.  Screeching “What? Are you kidding me?” is replaced with “Have you considered the cost of repairing the damage if you do suspend me from the ceiling fan?”
The consistently rude and abrasive folks tempt me to ask them if they could get their point across with different words………..but that might be a bit Prissy of me. 
In retrospect I might be intolerant of many things, but I parcel out my rat’s asses in a miserly fashion. 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 10:31:22 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

"why can't everyone just think like me!" Well, yeah! That would be great.. only it needs to be 'me' cuz I'm so smart and stuff, yanno?


lol

bet my me can beat up your me LOL.


<shakes gold bond on her head and lights it on fire while spinning dizzily all dazed. lol. weeeee

please next time, make easierrrrr posts. you are killin me hereeeeee

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/7/2007 10:53:13 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora
We are the 1%ers of the sexuality brigade.  We put up with enough ignorance from outside the pack to put up with it from within??? Could be ignore being called names from within the pack, or brush the clueless, misinformed or unenlightened to the corners of the dungeon? Sure, but you're missing out on a unique opportunity for education.  Sometimes arguing for the sake of arguing is amusing.  More often than not, taking the opportunity to really discuss the other sides to a topic -- not just "this is my opinion" but clearly expressing reasoning and thought process -- that fosters growth, learning and enlightenment.


I love it! Would that everyone had this attitude, Pandora. Truly, you have always been and remain a credit to your Title. :)

Celeste

Awww, shucks, thank you!

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/9/2007 6:10:41 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

It is a discussion.  If I'm going to be an asshole, I should be prepared to be called out on being an asshole and not whine about it. That's more what I'm thinking.


~nod~

Let's take the waterhole analogy... CollarMe is like a waterhole. The community around it like the packs that gather around a waterhole. If you shit in the water, people get ill. In time, the waterhole becomes useless. At this point, you don't really have any community anymore. You just have people who shit in the same cesspool. I've seen it happen much too often, and I'm not too keen on seeing it here. This is the only waterhole I've seen so far.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/9/2007 7:11:41 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

This raises many questions for me.  Is it okay to be intolerant of intolerance?

 
Well, that's sort of the point. You get to be anything you want in your universe.

quote:


Is there a point where acceptance leads to acquiescence of harm? 

 
I can choose to embrace, disgrace, ignore or accept anything depending on the situation.  I just can't make others do so nor would I want that responsibility. If you mean should I accept that someone else might do something which is harmful to them and it's my place to intervene, then no, it's not my place to tell another adult what they should or should not do if they aren't in a relationship where they've given me the authority to do so. I'm a total and complete believer in personal responsibility. That doesn't mean I won't offer advice or point out a dangerous situation and if someone holds out their hand and asks for help, I'll do what I can for them.. but if I reach my own hand out and they pull back, I'm pretty much done by their own request. I'd rather concentrate my efforts on the people who actually want my help.
quote:

Is nothing universally wrong? 

 
When it comes to kinky consenting adults, I can't think of a whole lot of things which are universally wrong but yeah, there's one or two which I do think are wrong and as it's TOSable to talk about them, I won't do so here. Outside that context, there's, literally, shitloads of stuff that shouldn't be happening in the world.
 
quote:

I’m not being snarky here.  I struggle with this concept. I am fairly understanding of differences……yet sometimes I think we work so hard at tolerance that we are afraid to take a stand against bad things.  I’m not articulating this very well and perhaps I’m overthinking your post.

 
I think you articulated yourself quite well and I don't think you should ever be afraid to take a stand for something in which you believe. Part of confidence comes into play by being able to stand for what you believe in even if the whole world thinks your wack because of it. If you remain true to your values and yourself, you'll never have trouble looking in the mirror and smile at the reflection you see.



quote:

In retrospect I might be intolerant of many things, but I parcel out my rat’s asses in a miserly fashion. 




That's probably a good thing. I hear they're expensive. ::chuckles::


Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/9/2007 7:12:36 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
Correction to my last post:

"The only worthwhile waterhole I've seen so far, for people in the lifestyle."

< Message edited by Aswad -- 8/9/2007 7:14:32 PM >


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/9/2007 7:21:46 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

It is a discussion.  If I'm going to be an asshole, I should be prepared to be called out on being an asshole and not whine about it. That's more what I'm thinking.


~nod~

Let's take the waterhole analogy... CollarMe is like a waterhole. The community around it like the packs that gather around a waterhole. If you shit in the water, people get ill. In time, the waterhole becomes useless. At this point, you don't really have any community anymore. You just have people who shit in the same cesspool. I've seen it happen much too often, and I'm not too keen on seeing it here. This is the only waterhole I've seen so far.



This is one of the best analogies involving crap that I've seen. It's spot-on.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 8/9/2007 7:22:20 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

Using the fast reply thingie 'cause I seem to have to:

Meh. I guess what I'm advocating is "it'd be cool if people think before sweeping pronouncement du jour" rather than trying to dictate what anyone says.


I agree, that would be very cool. I just don't expect it. :)


quote:

And there is a difference, to me, in the syntax and meaning of saying something in a "nice" fashion, if that's what you call a fashion that allows for other people finding enjoyment in something that's not your thing, and reacting in very personal, but aggressively disgusted terms.  I think you get the distinction.


I do and I'm not going to argue the point because I happen to agree with you. I think there's a time and place to be aggressive and tough and sometimes that 'tone' is the only thing that's going to work to get a point across, but over-all, diplomacy is going to be heard more often and regardless of what's said, sometimes it's absolutely all about the 'way' it's said. If I'm so pissed off at a 'tone' that I'm not hearing what's actually being said, it's sort of makes discussion moot at that point.

quote:

And it just gets old being called upon to explain yourself, which is what happens when people feel compelled to do the "I dont GET" speech --  Perfect example "I just don't GET bisexuality" -- it doesn't mean "I'm just into men" nearly as much as it really means "I've had this explained to me a million times but I don't actually find validity in bisexuals talking about their own lives, so I'm just gonna see if I can use this great soapbox to imply how confused they are because I can't believe they're not no matter how many times I hear it..." etc.


Yeah, most of those 'I don't get it' are just excuses to be able to say.."You're wrong in what you do." The trick is to figure out which ones come from a genuine desire to learn and which come from the need to vent about how wrong someone is for what it is that they do.

quote:

I don't care to be in a male led relationship at this point in my life. I get it. I get the appeal, I get what people who need it get out of it. It's not some weeeeird sexual mystery that makes me have to go "ew ew ew" it's just not my life. I'm so mellow about it that maybe it could be my life or will be in ten years or something, but it's not where I look for fulfillment.


You know who you are, what you want and what works for you. All good things in my book.

quote:

Oh, and examples were assumed to be examples. :) as are mine.



quote:

While I'm advocating sensitivity I'm not one to take all things or even most personally.


We're in the same place. That said, I think it would be naive of both of us to assume that it's ever going to be a universal concept.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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