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RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 8:11:58 AM

SirDominic

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Michael,
Quite agree with your first two paragraphs, especially about owning the fact that it IS your issue.

Have more of a problem with the last statement though. Even if you are perceiving signs that your partner may be cheating (whether rightly or not), getting jealous about it is useless, and fruitless. Becoming jealous is an inaction. It does nothing usefull; just a waste of time and emotions. It is wasting emotional energy. If someone is concerned about fidelity, there are far healthier ways to cope with that. Like, say, dealing with the issue!

Namaste, Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 21

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 9:03:19 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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Why is feeling jealousy "wasting emotional energy"? If you get bad news that a dear friend died and you cry inconsolably, the tears are not going to bring that friend back, they are not going to fill the void his loss will create, but you wouldn't say the crying is wasted emotional energy? Or would you? Feeling jealous is just one of many emotions a person can feel from an array of emotions there are out there to feel. Our emotions are like indicators, they tell us the direction we need to take - along with our intellect/mind we can make the best decisions possible for ourselves - hopefully. Making decisions needs a balance of both (mind and emotions) in order to serve us best. No emotion we feel is wasted energy. i agree that just feeling the emotion and not taking action is allowing the emotion to overwhelm and/or control us and does no good, but no one said feeling jealousy should lead to that. You said, "Becoming jealous is an inaction" - i disagree - it's only inaction if you don't take action from the input you get from the feeling, with the help of your mind/intellect.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 22

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 9:22:42 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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I happen to agree that guilt and jealousy are wasted energy- they come from a place of pointless insecurity and feeling of self lacking and they add nothing TO a person's true sense of self.

But they still exist, so use them for what you can and dismiss them for what you can't.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 23

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 9:38:54 AM

SirDominic

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Joined: 11/22/2006
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velvet, your analogy is not apt. Crying can be very therapeutic, as in the example you described.

Jealousy, however is an inaction, because it does nothing constructive. If you take action, as you suggest, to deal with the problem - that is a constructive use of your time. They are two entirely separate things. One is being jealous (pointless), the other is dealing with the issue (useful). You don't have to have the former to have the latter.

You said "i agree that just feeling the emotion and not taking action is allowing the emotion to overwhelm and/or control us and does no good, but no one said feeling jealousy should lead to that." In my experience jealousy does lead to exactly that, overwhelming you emotionally so that you become unable to take that positive step of dealing with the issue.

I do agree with you that there needs to be a balance of mind and emotion to be a healthy individual. I don't agree that no emotion we feel is wasted energy. Many emotions, like jealousy, guilt, anger, tend to lessen our ability to deal with our problems. That is the problem.

And I cannot state strongly enough, we as a society are led to believe we have no control over our emotions. That they rule us and we have to deal with their damage as best we can. It is a complete lie. We DO have control of our emotions, and what emotions we choose to have, if we train ourselves to do so. With me, for example, I am a very emotional person, but I put my effort into the positive emotions, and have excised many of the negative ones (for the most part. I am only too human, and sometimes do fall into this trap, even though I know better).

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 24

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 10:04:32 AM

FrankAr

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Joined: 10/1/2005
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If you are going to hide feelings, like you have said, then why be in a relationship. If you are hiding something, then you are deceiving someone. You are lying to them, and lying is something of a deal breaker. If you can't be honest with your feelings, then you should just walk away from the other person, simple.

< Message edited by FrankAr -- 8/8/2007 10:05:16 AM >

_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

(in reply to Babybass)

Post #: 25

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 10:11:20 AM

FrankAr

Posts: 817
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

This is an example of what I was talking about. A Dominant unwilling to put the effort into the relationship to make it work.

Now you are not seeing the full picture. I am not a Dominant, just a free person in Gor. There is where the major difference is. I seek within a relationship protocols, honor, truth. I have no concern about a female that wants to change her views and mind daily, that is not for me. I do seek a female that can think and have great knowledge, but knows when to use it and when to just be quiet. You only get this through a trained kajira, to chisel off the excess and lo and behold get a sculpture worth owning.

Frank Ar.

< Message edited by FrankAr -- 8/8/2007 10:12:35 AM >

_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 26

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 10:12:16 AM

NefertariReborn

Posts: 381
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankAr

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefertariReborn

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankAr

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterslb

Please help me find a way to get over jealousy...i know there is no place for a sub to be jealous...but to overcome this i need to focus any advice?

Greetings lb,

Why is it any different for any sub or slave or Dom or Domme or Master or anyone to get jealous ? It is just a natural feeling in a relationship that is brought about by an incident. Did something happen to bring about this feeling?

and then

If she feels insecure then that is her problem and she has to get over it quickly or the door will hit her arse on the way out, simple.

Be well.

Frank Ar.

That seems wonderfully contradictory...if it's a natural feeling why is the door an option?

Greetings,

The door is not an option. An option in my eyes is when the person is given a choice. In my life the female has no choice, she does it my way or I will have her use the door, it is not an option.

Be well.

Frank Ar.

PS, it is nice how you snipped the quote to make it look like something else then what was said....

I am sorry that you feel that My "snipping" changed the core of your post, but I would "respectfully" disagree. Ummmm someone else had the same reaction later down. she chose to highlight the same sections I "snipped." And given two scenarios and told to choose one (deal with it or hit the door) in case you don't recognize it, is giving someone a choice; the "OR" signifies that.

(in reply to FrankAr)

Post #: 27

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 10:15:38 AM

FrankAr

Posts: 817
Joined: 10/1/2005
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[/quote]

I am sorry
[/quote]

I accept

...just grins and smiles in tongue in cheek...

_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

(in reply to NefertariReborn)

Post #: 28

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 10:26:55 AM

FrankAr

Posts: 817
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankAr

Greetings lb,

Why is it any different for any sub or slave or Dom or Domme or Master or anyone to get jealous ? It is just a natural feeling in a relationship that is brought about by an incident. Did something happen to bring about this feeling?

Before I do step into a relationship with any female, there is no jealousy. The door is over there if there is. If she starts then I have no need for it, she has to accept my life and my judgement. If she feels insecure then that is her problem and she has to get over it quickly or the door will hit her arse on the way out, simple.

Be well.

Frank Ar.

On the one hand you are saying it is natural, or in her nature, to feel jealous, then you say if a girl in your care felt that way you would kick her to the curb. This doesn't make sense to me? You are in essence saying you want your girl to go against her nature, to deny her feelings which are natural, for you. By doing this you are denying her the right to be human and expecting more of her than is reasonable. You say before you step into a relationship there is no jealousy, well thats all fine and dandy, but you cannot predict the future emotions someone will or will not feel. All you will accomplish is having a slave who hides a part of herself from you untill such a time as the emotions eat away at her to the point she cannot tolerate them and she leaves you.

Jealously is not an emotion that has been caused from an outside influence. With this I mean someone's death, the feelings of a female from that cannot be measured and you cannot stop it. From a birth in the family, the feelings cannot be measured, you can't stop the flow, so I can only let it be, simple. But, there is a difference with jealousness, and I will try to write it in a better form.

As the start of any relationship, both parties have communication and talk, this then lets you both bounce off of each other and try to grasp the basic ideas and loves of the other to see if you are compatible. If you are not compatible you just say..no thanks..and walk away and there is no skin off your nose...so to speak. With this communication, you would and should talk about everything for the future, house, money, young uns, family involvement, ex partners etc. The list is endless. You should also talk about the future in regards to having one or more females/males.

I know that in the future that I will be able to afford 2 slaves, simple, I have the means. They have to know this. So therefore with this in mind, do you really think that jealously should come into it? I do not think this. They should already have it in their mind that they will not be the only slave in the household, that they will be shared, that they will die as slaves in their old age, that my life is not of the Mills and Boon romance. Now after having conversations with the female/s and THEN they get jealous, well the door will hit their arse while I just push them out, full stop.

Frank Ar.

< Message edited by FrankAr -- 8/8/2007 10:28:42 AM >

_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 29

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 10:28:59 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

i can see from your pov why you think negative emotions are wasting energy, and i am not advocating for feeling them, but they do come up and they do exist - and we have to learn to deal with them when they do. Negative emotions do have the propensity to overwhelm us, but i think they can also teach us a lot about ourselves as well.

This i agree with 100% "And I cannot state strongly enough, we as a society are led to believe we have no control over our emotions. That they rule us and we have to deal with their damage as best we can. It is a complete lie." i never understood why anyone would feel that feeling negative emotions gives them free reign to act out in destructive ways. That is where the mind comes into play, the balance i was talking about.

You can't go through life just denying all your negative emotions like they don't exist. i think experiencing them, evaluating them, use them to make or change decisions just don't do what most do and just react to them, that's how they become destructive.

i can't control what people do to bring up an emotion in me but i can control how i react and what action i take thereafter and that in itself is VERY empowering.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 30

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 10:40:41 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

Thank you for the more in depth explanation of what you meant by kicking a jealous slave out the door. i agree that anyone going into a relationship should discuss with their partner all things possible and what they should expect and any slave who undertands from day one that she will not be the only one should do a lot of hard thinking about whether or not she can live in such a situation or not before she commits to that relationship. The master in that case has every right to structure the relationship as he wants. The only problem i see is if the slave had good intentions and truly felt she could handle the situation and when it became "real" (you actually brought another slave in) she found out that it brought out jealousy in her she never thought was possible. Instead of kicking her to the curb wouldn't helping her try to sort it out or work to make her feel
more secure be a better option? It's like blaming her for something that's not totally her fault and that just doesn't seem fair to me. i don't mean to imply that you should change your mind about what you want or expect, just perhaps a bit more leniency towards the slave in regards to how she may react to a situation she's never experienced before.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to FrankAr)

Post #: 31

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 10:54:47 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I don't think emotions themselves are be positive or negative- they simply are.

However, I do think certain emotions or experiences are not useful to remaining true to ourselves- or if they are useful it is only as an indicator that we are not staying with ourselves. Like burning your hand on a stove- it can be a good lesson, but not one you need to keep having.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 8/8/2007 10:55:15 AM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 32

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 1:17:07 PM

lovewithoutfear

Posts: 153
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline

velvetears wrote,
Instead of kicking her to the curb wouldn't helping her try to sort it out or work to make her feel
more secure be a better option? It's like blaming her for something that's not totally her fault and that just doesn't seem fair to me. i don't mean to imply that you should change your mind about what you want or expect, just perhaps a bit more leniency towards the slave in regards to how she may react to a situation she's never experienced before."

I agree with this 100 percent. I don't think a Master is obligated to help the slave in this situation, but I do think a kind and caring Master would. Sir has certainly helped me work through difficult emotions that have come up for me in my service to him, and far from making him seem weak or decreasing his rule of me, his doing so has only increased my devotion to him. .

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 33

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 4:27:13 PM

theq

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milivoje
My advice is:

1) Talk with your partner about that.
2) Talk with your partner about that.
3) Talk with your partner about that.

I can't quite echo this enough. Especially in the early stages of a relationship...communication is a big key. EVen as teh relationship matures....communication is STILL key. When communication starts to break down the relationship usually does as well. When you and your partner don't share your feelings with one another....things start to break down. A caring person will listen to your feelings and do their best to objectively understand them.

There is some in this that depends on what your partner is like, I suppose. Personally, for me, from my side, I don't think my partner and I could be "too open" with one another. Some people may push away if you are too open with them. Relationships aren't a science that one can apply formulas to.

As Milivoje said...about jealousy....talk to your partner. If they aren't interested in listening you may need to ask yourself...do I have the right partner?

I know it's easy to say these things from the outside looking in...all too well I'm afraid.

(in reply to Milivoje)

Post #: 34

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 4:45:52 PM

theq

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milivoje
Does loving ones slave make a Master weak? In my opinion NO.

I concur, but feelings not yet reciprocated can through the power exchange off kilter a bit.

quote:

My personal experience: The relationship with my slave started off in quite a strange manner, she did not know much about this lifestyle and had little or no practical experience. .. It was full of "eye openers" for her and for me. I found out that I could be patient, as she was a quick learner. She found out that "the less she was in control" the more pleasure she received.
In time we became closer emotionally, which in return reinforced our positions as Master and slave.

Thank you, truly insightful/applicable to me and my current situation in a girl with whom I am in the beginning stages of a relationship.

About those who have spoken of security in the relationship alleviating jealousy. I can't agree more. In a time I am secure in my relations with this girl...if I see a group of guys checking her out and starring at her...I'll instruct her to give them a bit of a show (whether it be a better glimpse of her cleavage...or whatever). On those days...my thoughts are..."like what you see, huh? She's mine...go away now boys and play with your toys."

(in reply to Milivoje)

Post #: 35

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 5:02:09 PM

theq

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KiandPhoenix
I find that the first thing to do is not push it on your partner, but be sure to open up to them and let them know your feelings.

It is, as I suppose, my boss in my day job tells me: nothing to excess.

There may be some things for me to learn in this regard.

Thank you

(in reply to KiandPhoenix)

Post #: 36

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 5:55:01 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Dominic,

We were speaking of jealousy and whether or not it is an internal issue, meaning something the person feeling it needs to work on rather than a rational response. I was outlining the times it is truly internal and comes from a place of insecurity and when it isn't insecurity but instead it is caused by actual actions of your partner. I think that feeling jealousy in that case is healthy and natural emotion. I think what you meant was that it wasn't a solution to anything and I agree. Talking to your partner, dealing with the issue directly is the way to move forward.

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 37

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 7:48:57 PM

NefertariReborn

Posts: 381
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankAr

I am sorry

I accept

...just grins and smiles in tongue in cheek...

That must look awfully funny...Can I get a pic of that?

(in reply to FrankAr)

Post #: 38

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 9:22:02 PM

FrankAr

Posts: 817
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

The only problem i see is if the slave had good intentions and truly felt she could handle the situation and when it became "real" (you actually brought another slave in) she found out that it brought out jealousy in her she never thought was possible. Instead of kicking her to the curb wouldn't helping her try to sort it out or work to make her feel
more secure be a better option? It's like blaming her for something that's not totally her fault and that just doesn't seem fair to me. i don't mean to imply that you should change your mind about what you want or expect, just perhaps a bit more leniency towards the slave in regards to how she may react to a situation she's never experienced before.

I would like to address this part of your post..

Now every feeling can be worked upon, and guided through the scene of the relationship. Now when it comes to jealousy I would start to think that there are 2 types of jealoussy.

The harmless type is the one that just comes up every year or two, it is harmless and can be given a stern look and it is soon away and gone from the female. It was maybe just a fleeting feeling and then she understood how stupid it was and then let it be and it was gone from her. For she has to acept the fact that I have already evaluated any scenario that concerns us in our life, and the more than one slave has been included into my options of life.

The second is the hard jealous core than can harm a relationship. The female might bring this out, in the back of her mind always thinking of the Master/slave relationship being monogamous and the Mills and Boon thingy. This type of jealoussy is wrong for it does hurt the relationship and does not need to be brought into my life. This is a negative option that I have included into all scenarios of life if I have the female, and it is NOT to be involved with my life. It can be part of her life, but not mine, and she would know of this before starting the relationship with me. The second one might be brought out into the open after 5 years of being in a poly household. This is still not an excuse, for then...like another post has brought up....it is hiding another feeling, and I will not have this deceit, in my eyes.

That is why the second type will have her kicked to the door, the first might give me an andrenalin rush that I might have needed at that point of the relationship...just like any Master.

Be well.

Frank Ar.

< Message edited by FrankAr -- 8/8/2007 9:26:55 PM >

_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 39

RE: Jealousy - 8/8/2007 9:29:05 PM

FrankAr

Posts: 817
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefertariReborn

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankAr

I am sorry

I accept

...just grins and smiles in tongue in cheek...

That must look awfully funny...Can I get a pic of that?

Greetings

You know how expressions are at that certain point in life, and sometimes it looks just stupid in trying to recreate them. I personally think it might happen to me if I tried to recreate it....just chuckles away....

< Message edited by FrankAr -- 8/8/2007 9:30:12 PM >

_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

(in reply to NefertariReborn)

Post #: 40

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