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Beheading - 6/18/2004 10:40:26 PM   
sub4hire


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As a few of you already know. I like to know why things happen. Why people do things.
After viewing the latest beheading pics. I've noticed they seem to have a certain custom.
Hands tied...after the deed has been done they turn the body over. Sit the head on the small of the back.
Is that supposed to mean something? It all seems cowardly to me. Although still a pattern.
I'm thinking inyou will be able to answer this but not sure either. Maybe others have ideas on why it is done the way it is.
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RE: Beheading - 6/18/2004 10:45:28 PM   
Sinergy


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In feudal Japan, the ultimate insult to a Samurai was to cut off their top knot (pony tail on top of their head.)

Of course, the reason a Samurai WORE a top knot was to allow the person who killed them to carry their decapitated head around.

Go figure

Sinergy

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RE: Beheading - 6/19/2004 1:05:45 AM   
inyouagain


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Here's a short but informative article about the Islamic beheading ritual, and it's true origin back to Muhammed who ordered a mass population of Jewish men to be executed by beheading. The article describes the four options available to the Islamic ruler regarding his conquered prisoners:

1) Execution by beheading (most common choice for males)
2) Enslave them (most common choice for females and children)
3) Use them for ransom (today's #1 choice for terrorists, ie. non conquerers)
4) Pardon them (rare exception to the above)

Since "westerners" are considered to be infidels (not because some of us believe in a faith derived from Hebrews, but mainly because we do not believe in Islam, and Allah), and the popular Hebrew based religion involves spirituality, it combines an age old warrior philosophy of defeating the body and the soul of your enemy. Instead of simply a mortal wound, the objective is to behead the enemy to kill his soul. Western "infidel" religions and social structure do not include martyrdom, which is fanatically embraced by Muslims. In their eyes, either killing all us infidels is in order... else force our submission by the sheer terror of their "sacrifices of us".

Western terror is achieved by the murder of defenseless westerner captives with the ritualistic Muhammed twist of beheading, followed by mocking with placement of the severed head. If you've followed world events, most all terrorists factions that have beheaded captives claim allegence to Al Quaeda, and Bin Laden. He and his organization have distributed CD-ROMS of training and teachings of his interpretation of Islam, and of the Muslim fundamentals. Since beheading of captives has taken place worldwide by Al Qaeda linked terrorists, I'd venture a guess it is a ritual defined by Bin Laden or his cronies... as the ultimate insult after death... to infidels.

One thing I've noted among the terrorist organizations is that the executions (sacrifices per Allah), only involve males... never hear of female captives being beheaded. I believe this folds back to the 2nd Muhammed option above... not that they show favor to the female gender, but rather see it as something to use to their advantage, as in slavery. If I'm not mistaken, an exception would have been the 9/11 Flight from Washington that hit the Pentagon. I recall there were cell calls made in which the callers described a female flight attendent having had her throat cut in order for the hijackers to gain access to the flight deck and cockpit (but she was dead either way).

The easy answer is it's to terrorize, and apparently with a designed protocol to depict clearly a sacrifice of infidels, and a total destruction of their spirit and soul. This aspect not only exists in organized terrorism, but was practiced in numerous combat theaters by western militaries. In Vietnam there was an Army practice of severing the ear from your confirmed kills, and adding them to your string of severed ears. Also, using death cards to show the enemy which US outfit killed their members. Yes, even our own freedom protecting military has barbaric tactics, to terrorize the perceived enemy.

I never said I agreed or condoned any of it, but then again I don't fanatically pursue a religion that promises me breakfast with god, a wheelbarrow full of gold, and 12 brown-eyed virgin wives simply for giving my life as a martyr.

Inyouagain

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RE: Beheading - 6/19/2004 11:23:17 AM   
iwillserveu


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quote:

Western "infidel" religions and social structure do not include martyrdom


It depends on definitions. Saint Sebastian (I think that's the guy with all the arrows) was a martyr. In western (re:Chritian based) societies I know of no Martyr that killed for what he believed (unless you somehow count him/her self).

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RE: Beheading - 6/19/2004 11:32:07 AM   
sub4hire


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Thanks everyone,
So it's sort of the al quaeda code so to speak? Sor t of notoriety. Although that has serious downfalls. Leaving your single mark on the crime.
Yet, I assume these people don't think they will be ever caught anyway. Just like the ignorance of a typcial criminal.

Still seems very cowardly to me. Killing in that fashion.

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RE: Beheading - 6/19/2004 7:44:28 PM   
Estring


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sub, people are beheaded all the time in Islamic countries. That is one of the ways criminals are punished. Not to mention chopping off hands, feet, tongues, etc. The difference here is that this American was not a criminal. Not that that matters to those animals.

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RE: Beheading - 6/21/2004 8:54:16 AM   
topcat


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midear Gloria-

Actually, it's not a ritual, really.

When you cut someones head off (or in fact, kill them in anyway) they fall forward- it's really shocking how hard it is to roll them over when they're on the floor. Also, if you put the head on the front of the body, it falls off, everytime.

I learned this sort of thing cleaning up after they blew up my Barracks in Bierut in'83. that is likely the first time we heard from Al Queida- and at that time, it Bin Laden was cashing US Goverment checks.

This kind of killing goes on everyday, all around the world. It just never got much press in the US untill they took the towers down. Basque Sepertists, the Shining Path, Kyhmer Rouge, Hamas, Hezbolla, the Christian Phlage, the list goes on and on. Let's not forget my cousins in the Sein Fein or the Provisional IRA. They've been blowing shops and bars, houses and churches for years- That's cowidice. But go into half the pubs in Boston and someones passing a hat 'for the Lads'[ yup- I've funded terrorism].

When someone enthousand miles away has bombed your nieghborhood, shut down work, ransacked your town, things change. Suddenly, the scum can rise to the top, and be heros. happens everyday. Now, it's just on CNN, selling soap.

stay warm,
Lawrence

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RE: Beheading - 6/21/2004 7:43:54 PM   
proudsub


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quote:

I learned this sort of thing cleaning up after they blew up my Barracks in Bierut in'83. that is likely the first time we heard from Al Queida- and at that time, it Bin Laden was cashing US Goverment checks.


WOW Lawrence--you were in those barracks? I am so glad you survived!! Hope you didn't lose too many close friends, that must of been awful.

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RE: Beheading - 6/22/2004 11:31:07 PM   
topcat


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Midear Proud-

No, After having been the first US Marine offically on the ground (as part of the advance party to secure the airport) we were finally on our way home after missing two movements. We were fourdays out to sea, bound for Norfolk, on the day it happened. They turned the boat around, and we went back for recovery and registration. We finally got to Norfolk in april, four months after my enlistment expired.

The only thing worse in my life was doing notifications to the families. I'll take sorting body parts any day over ringing the bell.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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RE: Beheading - 6/23/2004 7:55:15 AM   
Thanatosian


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quote:

They turned the boat around, and we went back for recovery and registration


Definitely not the kind of r&r anyone wants to hear they are getting - have heard of 'combat hardened' veterens crying when assigned to do registration duty. Still, I am forced to agree with you, it is better than having to do family notifications (shudders) - anyway, as G Gordon Liddy would put it, thank you for your service to our country - and keep the faith brother

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RE: Beheading - 6/23/2004 7:29:06 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

sub, people are beheaded all the time in Islamic countries. That is one of the ways criminals are punished. Not to mention chopping off hands, feet, tongues, etc. The difference here is that this American was not a criminal. Not that that matters to those animals.


The interesting thing to remember is that it is a violation of Islam to execute by beheading somebody who has NOT been tried and convicted in Islamic Courts and sentenced to death.

The nut jobs who are decapitating people in the name of Islam dont even have more than a cursory understanding of the religion they profess to espouse.

From my perspective, religion has nothing to do with this conflict. This conflict is about people with money and power attempting to inflict their will on those who will use any means at their disposal to not have ANY will inflicted on them, no matter how positive that will might end up being for them.

There was a radio dj I heard the other night who said "Look at western civilization, we have put people on the moon, made major strides in medicine, agriculture, science, the arts, etc. Look at Islamic culture, they have perfected how to strap dynamite to themselves and blow themselves and innocent people up."

Sinergy

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RE: Beheading - 6/26/2004 9:57:37 PM   
dixiedumpling


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Somewhere in my reading, I read about some historical reasons for Muslims' animosity to Westerners. It started with the Crusades. Before the Crusades, the Muslim world was the advanced society on the earth. Since the Crusades, they are considerably unadvanced. Of course, there are the factors of poor leadership and having a religion that doubles for a government to consider.
What I'd like to know is why the Saudi's still need Western help in the oil fields? Is working in the oil fields beneath them?

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RE: Beheading - 6/27/2004 1:28:48 PM   
anthrosub


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quote:

Original: dixiedumpling
What I'd like to know is why the Saudi's still need Western help in the oil fields? Is working in the oil fields beneath them?



The Saudis needed westerners in the early stages of developing the oil fields because they had no educated people of their own, so they literally had to import skilled labor. Abdul Aziz bin Saud, the first King of what is now Saudi Arabia essentially united all the various tribes on the Arabian peninsula during the first half of the 20th century. For the most part, they were all bedouin nomads and had no schooling. Today their reliance on westerners is not as total but i think the way they began has created a trend of sorts. They still however, demonstrate an air of superiority towards foreigners in spite of their coming into the modern age somewhat (probably simple human egoism).

It's interesting to note the Saudis have two armies...one to defend the country...and a "royal army" to protect the Saudi family from the regular army.

i have a degree in Anthropology and have studied psychology, philosophy, and religion as it has developed within cultures since the beginning of civilization. There are some very interesting aspects as to how we've gotten to where we are today that has led me to becoming agnostic. i will not say more because i'm positive it will offend many here if i detailed the things i've realized and don't wish to pull the rug out from under anyone's feet so to speak.

But i will say this...what if we're all wrong? What if there's no God, Allah, Yahweh, Great Spirit, and all the other names given to the great mystery of what is the meaning of life? What if all the holy teachings were meant to be a template for living a good life but never intended to be construed as laws set in stone to be imposed by one person(s) upon others?

i think about this when i see these brutal acts committed by obviously under-educated people who are lucky if they've ever read anything other than the Quran. The men who flew into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon actually believed they were heading for paradise but it's my strong opinion that all they did was incinerate themselves and add to the misery and hardship this world is trying to overcome.

There's a great song that came out a few years ago with the line..."What if God were one of Us?" i personally think the artist is on to something. Maybe we are all God but can't accept the responsibility or simply have been distracted from the fact by being brainwashed from birth to believe otherwise by our respective cultures. Somewhere else on the Internet, someone has a similar quote stating, "If there were no God, people would invent one."

anthrosub


< Message edited by anthrosub -- 6/27/2004 1:43:14 PM >


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