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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:10:41 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Tell about your old church, if you feel like it?

Sure. It's a small, liberal Episcopal parish. The people are great, and I was a very active member there for 15 years. Gotta little overenmeshed in the politics, though, and needed a break. Also, the liturgy has gotten fairly stuffy, which didn't set well with me.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:11:48 PM   
subtee


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Didja love the songs, sweet?

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:12:06 PM   
Lumus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Tell about your old church, if you feel like it?



Sure. It's a small, liberal Episcopal parish. The people are great, and I was a very active member there for 15 years. Gotta little overenmeshed in the politics, though, and needed a break. Also, the liturgy has gotten fairly stuffy, which didn't set well with me.



Hmm.  I know the politics of the church quite well; I'm the son of a former minister.  I can empathize completely, dc.


_____________________________

<Talk to educate; listen to learn.>

~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:17:53 PM   
subtee


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Then i empathize with you, tee hee

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:19:10 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Didja love the songs, sweet?

No, the music was pretty dismal. That's one of the things that nudged me away.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:19:52 PM   
Lumus


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*hums a Janis Joplin tune quietly*

_____________________________

<Talk to educate; listen to learn.>

~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

(in reply to subtee)
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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:21:56 PM   
subtee


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Which one? janis joplin quiet? maybe "me and bobby mcgee?"

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:22:03 PM   
dcnovice


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"Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose"?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:24:37 PM   
subtee


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absolutely! profound...too bad gone so soon

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:26:25 PM   
Lumus


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Nope.

o/` Billy Ray was a preacher's son
And when his daddy would visit he'd come along
When they gathered round and started talkin'
That's when Billy would take me walkin'
Out through the backyard we'd go walkin'
Then he'd look into my eyes
Lord knows to my surprise

The only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes, he was he was, yes, he was

Being good isn't always easy
No matter how hard I tried
When he started sweet talkin' to me
He'd come and tell me everything is alright
He'd kiss and tell me everything's alright
Can I get away again tonight

The only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes, he was he was, Lord knows he was

How well I remember
The look that was in his eyes
Stealing kisses from me on the sly
Taking time to make time
Telling me that he's all mine
Learning from each other's knowing
Looking to see how much we're growing

The only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes, he was he was, oh yes, he was

The only one who could ever reach me
Was the sweet talkin' son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man.... o/`





_____________________________

<Talk to educate; listen to learn.>

~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:27:41 PM   
dcnovice


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Well, that's fitting.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:29:04 PM   
dcnovice


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So is being a PK why church isn't an option for you, Lumus?

And feel free to tell me to mind my own business.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:31:06 PM   
subtee


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Hell yes! Rocks still.

Can we find that in a church hymn? I suppose some can

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:32:02 PM   
dcnovice


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Depends on the hymn. Gospel music, maybe.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:36:03 PM   
subtee


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yes. true. i'd love to hear it right now...

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:50:20 PM   
Lumus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

So is being a PK why church isn't an option for you, Lumus?

And feel free to tell me to mind my own business.



Nope, it's nothing to do with that, and if I expected you to mind your business I wouldn't comment on mine - n'est pas?

Here's the story.

I used to go to a Methodist church, where my father presided as one of several ministers.  Now, my father was never a 'holy' sort of fellow; in fact, my lineage, while it extends from nobility and knighthood, has had its bad seeds.  Those bad seeds were segregated and of those, the remaining bad seeds sailed over to the Americas, becoming my more direct ancestors.

That said, my father, while devoted to his beliefs, often had questions at the tip of his tongue, especially where translation and application came in in regards to the Bible.  [I have the same questioning mind.]  He never fully accepted a fact as final, always seeing it as a step towards learning something even more relevant.

Thus it was when the other ministers chose to embrace and focus upon a specific tenet of the Bible, my father had his reservations.  The tenet had to do with the concept of the body being a holy temple for the spirit of the Lord, and how abusing said body was temple desecration, of sorts, therefore sinful.  Having decided to pursue this concept with ardent passion, the other ministers quickly got on my father's back because my mother smoked.  She was 'setting a bad example', you see.

Well, she tried to quit.  She tried hard, and failed.  Months passed.  Finally, my father couldn't take the derision of the other, haughtier members of the church and told them that their translation was too literal.

In case you are not aware, Methodists aren't fond of that kind of talk.

My father resigned.  He spoke briefly to me about it afterwards, since he didn't want this outcome to damage my beliefs.  He said something I still hold pertinent to this day:

"Son, you don't have to be in church to worship.  You don't have to gather with others, put money in the collection plate, or even talk about it out loud.  What's in your head and your heart is between you and God, no one else."

I took that with a pinch of salt; I wasn't quite cynical yet - I was only eight - but I wasn't  exactly a normal child, either.  I weighed the methodologies of the church as they implemented them; did my own comparative religious studies as a teenager as one of my pasttimes.  It wasn't that hard; heck, I used to help my father write sermons.

In the end I came to a conclusion that sat well with my view of the world, which was never the popular view to begin with.   I decided that there was a force governing over the Universe; that men who assume this force has the time to speak with them are quite likely delusional or blind in their own egotism; that assigning a name to said force is ludicrous, and may as well be Zeus, God, or Rupert; and that establishing our morals and personal beliefs comes not from a compelling external force, but rather from an inner need for people to relate and work towards being more than what we are.  In the end, we are measured by our actions, not by a pile of wealth.  We choose to be better people because it is its own reward.

I can't abide churches anymore, you see, because to me they are simply buildings where pretty statues with ancient names stare down over folk who are only as good as they strive to be.  My father was right.  I don't need to attend these folk or do as they say; my heart and my head are synchronously happy with the outlook I have chosen to undertake for myself.  And Rupert understands that completely, I am sure.

Hope the reply didn't offend you, that wasn't the point of the tale.  I just enjoy spinning a good yarn, and, well, it did address your question.



_____________________________

<Talk to educate; listen to learn.>

~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:50:26 PM   
dcnovice


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Now, I'm tempted to blast some, but I doubt my apartment neighbors would get the same spiritual thrill at this hour.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 8:54:02 PM   
dcnovice


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Thanks for sharing that with me, Lumus. Didn't offend me at all. I've had many similar thoughts, which is why I've landed (for now, anyway) with the Unitarians.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 9:05:15 PM   
subtee


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Lumus, that is lovely. I see your path. Mine zigged and zagged, but i think you and i ended up at similar end points....although the end isn't here yet, is it?

Rupert bless you! Tee hee

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RE: Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh! - 12/2/2007 9:08:56 PM   
subtee


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dc, the Unitarians have had my attention too. The last church i have or will likely attend.

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