RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list?

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RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 7:45:38 AM

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I think with such lists they are a begining to what someone enjoys.
But lists, ideas, limits however you want to label it always changes. I have tried something and either liked a lot or a little or not at all.
Is a start for the Dom to know what experience the person has and go from there.

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(in reply to pleasureforHim)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 10:13:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
The talk about dominants frustrated with the submissives' parameters, wish lists, limits and agendas made me think of a pretty simple solution. If a dominant wants a partner who submits without any pre conceived wish lists or fetishes of their own they want met, then dominate a vanilla partner.

Works great for me.

Akasha

I see this another way.
A self proclaimed "newbie" has a list of I DEMAND, I WANT, I EXPECT... how does she know this unless she is possibly posturing from a fantasy realm and only what she supposes or wishes for, possibly based on only what she has read?

i dont mean to exclude malesubs when i write "she."

On the other hand, a self proclaimed "expereinced" dom of say 15 yrs, with his own well equiped dungeon..... might have had only one scene a year as a top, had only brief relationships with 15 submissives and calls himself experienced.
Experienced in what?
Another Dom might have 15 years "experience", a toy chest of only toys he enjoys using and has 2 long term relationships with submissives that submit to his type and style of dominance and enjoys his toy chest.
Experienced in what?

Even vanilla relationships have their expectations, wish list, agendas, boundaries and limits.

~~shy

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"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 10:20:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fourpeas

And that said we all have wishes... Just because we are subs or even slaves doesn't mean we don't have the right to have wishes, dreams, desires... things that we crave and want... I think that we are all happier with at least a few of those things. Maybe someone's wish is to not have any wishes but what their Master or Domme wants... ? That is a wish too, no? I am firmly and completely convinced that I as a sub perform so much better when some of my needs and desires are being met. I am more useful to my Dom in that sense. To crush my wishes and dreams is also to crush the part of myself that wishes and dreams to serve... and also wishes and dreams of other things too.

nice points fourpeas.

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 9:23:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The talk about dominants frustrated with the submissives' parameters, wish lists, limits and agendas made me think of a pretty simple solution. If a dominant wants a partner who submits without any pre conceived wish lists or fetishes of their own they want met, then dominate a vanilla partner.

Works great for me.

Akasha

EVERYONE has a list, except perhaps the completely self-destructive. Some people haven't thought much about what is on their list, but it's still there. I find it much easier if I know what is on the list. Then we can talk about it, instead of having unpleasant surprises later.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/10/2005 10:07:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slatyb

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The talk about dominants frustrated with the submissives' parameters, wish lists, limits and agendas made me think of a pretty simple solution. If a dominant wants a partner who submits without any pre conceived wish lists or fetishes of their own they want met, then dominate a vanilla partner.

Works great for me.

Akasha

EVERYONE has a list, except perhaps the completely self-destructive. Some people haven't thought much about what is on their list, but it's still there. I find it much easier if I know what is on the list. Then we can talk about it, instead of having unpleasant surprises later.

A "vanilla" person does not have a wish list as it relates to kink. If they have never tried power exchange, bondage, pain, humiliation or any fetishes they are basically a clean slate. They might have some general ideas, some things they want to avoid, but it's nowhere near the wish list of a kinky person.

Akasha

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Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to slatyb)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 6:10:21 AM

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I have no trouble with a submissive expressing what their interests happen to be on a list of sorts. Nor to I have a problem with them discussing them privately.

Communication of some sort is needed; better to find out if there is something that may cause a problem sooner than later and resolve it.

However, to me the activities on lists are only one aspect of a D/s relationship.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 8:38:55 AM

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Yes I want the submissive/slave to have a list but I also want them to fully understand the dynamics of what is on their list. To have thought out each entry fully and not simply pulled it off of another list or (check list) they have read on the Internet.

I want their list to truly reflect the type of toy I may may end up with and not a self creation that they can't live up to. The list indicates who they are on the kink spectrum (to Me) and so I would prefer some information about each and every desire they list...not just a single word.

One deception of lists I have discovered over the years is when it is actually created by what the sub/slave thinks the Mistress' wish to hear rather that what the sub/slave really desires.

(in reply to pleasureforHim)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 11:26:04 AM

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When i joined this site, A/all were asked for a list of activities of interest. If that was a wish list, it was severely limited however i chose as wisely as possible. i assumed it was primarily designed to aid searching for compatible people.

Now assuming i were to enter into a conversation with a Domme about RT i would expect not only that She would articulate Her interests but also be given the opportunity to articulate mine. i would think it would prevent disappointment later in the relationship. i really don't see a problem here. Domme/Dom's are given an opportunity to list what they are looking for, subs SHOULD also. It's not necessarily a statement of what either orientation will or won't do ultimately but a time saving reality.

(in reply to Shadowsdream)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 11:29:31 AM

hole

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If a sub truly had no desires they would have no desire to serve... Stated or not its human to have desires. Its what brought us all here in the first place. A dom who totally disregards a subs needs might sound hot but won't last long very often. In my humbled opinion.

(in reply to leggyone)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 11:47:54 AM

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Let me put it this way.

It's fine to have a list of desires. But lets be serious about priorities here. If you bottom,fine-that means you want to have those expectations met-YOUR WAY-and a service top will do it, if they get enough back in return off of THEIR lists.

On the other hand,if you want to submit more to a PERSON than a *list", a sub may be called upon to exceed, or drop some of what is on that list.

Doesn't mean you won't have the majority of your desires met. An intelligent Dominant will do this as a matter of course. It WILL often mean that the Dominant will basically say,"If MY list favorites are not catered to,I will simply refuse to get involved with you,My way or the highway."

At which time,it will be up to the sub to decide if they find the person desirable enough to make a *sacrifice* for.

Which is why we call it "Domination and submission",rather than "egalitarian kink".

(in reply to hole)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 11:58:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni

Let me put it this way.

It's fine to have a list of desires. But lets be serious about priorities here. If you bottom,fine-that means you want to have those expectations met-YOUR WAY-and a service top will do it, if they get enough back in return off of THEIR lists.

On the other hand,if you want to submit more to a PERSON than a *list", a sub may be called upon to exceed, or drop some of what is on that list.

Doesn't mean you won't have the majority of your desires met. An intelligent Dominant will do this as a matter of course. It WILL often mean that the Dominant will basically say,"If MY list favorites are not catered to,I will simply refuse to get involved with you,My way or the highway."

At which time,it will be up to the sub to decide if they find the person desirable enough to make a *sacrifice* for.

Which is why we call it "Domination and submission",rather than "egalitarian kink".

It still sounds to me like you need a converted vanilla woman with an open mind and a sensual streak. I really get off on the idea of sacrifice and surrender as a part of my partner's submission. He has to be doing something for me, something to turn me on, and something he wouldn't do for "just anyone." I had a hard time dominating hardcore subs who came equipped with a list (even though they were flexible) because I knew if they didn't submit to me, then they'd submit to femdom B., femdom C. or whatever femdom would agree first. The less selective they were, the less interested I became.

There are some subs out there that really do get off on being pushed, being seduced into things they don't have the ability to do just for the hell of it. They also can't submit to just anyone, they have to be manipulated and coerced (in a good way) and when they finally do submit to it, it's very hot. Those are the kind of self-identified subs that turn my crank.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Gemeni)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 12:12:16 PM

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Those are the kind I like too AAkasha.

The ones who enjoy being pushed,who take pleasure in overcoming. I find that those who tend to cling hardest to yes and no lists also come with the most baggage. I find narrow mindedness and fear to be big turn offs.

No one can wear my collar while Master Fear's is so firmly upon their neck (or anyone's collar,for that matter. They tend to corrode quickly.). Or Master Ignorance,for that matter. I may choose to put a sub in a box or cage for fun.

But I sure don't want to have to deal with an invisible one that bars our intimacy.

That's not my idea of a "connection".

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 12:35:52 PM

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I've never met someone who identified herself as a "slave" who didn't have some idea of what kind of life she imagined. Some want to be (un)pampered sex slaves. Some want to be domestic servants. Some want to be completely controlled housewives with (or without) children. Some just want to be permanently kidnapped and tortured. Many slaves want a blend of these things. This list is not comprehensive.

I do want to know what kind of life they expect. I want to know what they like, what they hate, what's an absolute "no". Lists help me learn these things with little effort on my part.

Lists are a part of the "interview" process (see my profile) and an early contribution to negotiation.

This links into my last post on another thread.

I also like to know what qualities they look for in an owner. That's a plus.

On the other hand....

If a profile or introductory email starts to sound like a lecture, is rude, includes the phrase "gift of submission" (or the like), is nothing but horrible poetry... I move on to the next.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 7/11/2005 10:00:06 PM

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Joined: 1/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

A "vanilla" person does not have a wish list as it relates to kink. If they have never tried power exchange, bondage, pain, humiliation or any fetishes they are basically a clean slate. They might have some general ideas, some things they want to avoid, but it's nowhere near the wish list of a kinky person.

Akasha

True, merely self-identifying as kinky implies that one has spent a certain amount of time thinking about sexual practices. But the vanilla still have their desires and limits, and I expect that most kinky people also have a number of non-sexual expectations and limits. I much prefer to deal with people who know what is on their list, rather than people who don't know themselves but get upset with I don't either.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Dominants: Do you want a sub with no wish list? - 11/22/2005 1:23:17 PM

SirDiscipliner69

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List are fine...to carry out them in the realistic aspect within the parameters of day-to-day living can be challenging.

Some are in live with the imagery more than the actual submission..like being in love with being in love...the notion is grander than the players involved...

I have found that vanilla expectations might be in the more romantic vein..so sometimes a cruise thru the yazoo personals can land some pleasant results....

Expectations and preconceptions run parrell sometimes...bottom line is one must communicate ...just like any relationship..regardless of what is involved..vanilla to edge..it is communication between two people...or three...or four...well you get the picture. ;)

Limits however are another thing...Many feel they have no limits except the given children, scat and blood...yet find out that there are many things done in certain context that can evoke fear...panic..wishing to flee...

Yes guiding a newbie or novice or an experienced submissive thru the many intoxicating realms can be exhausting and draining, but that is why we are here, we all started from the beginning just as a novice does,and yes they can be clueless at times, that's why we create a safe,sane and consensual environment for them to explore who they are within...to paraphrase something I have said before...

It is from Our wisdom...experience and accomplishments that we allow those to feel what We wish to enjoy..lists are fine...expectations are fine...negotiations are fine...yet to manipulate for the mere sake of getting what one wants is as old as the sun....

Now what was the question again?? ;)

(in reply to Gemeni)

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