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Bondage and health - 8/28/2007 5:33:19 PM

Master96

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I'm concerned about back pain and disc!

Take this example:

http://www.hqbondage.com/free_bdsm/mar_12_07/images/009.jpg

How to prevent long term effects of such activities? I mean all kinds of rope bondage. Including the Japanese one!

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Master96,

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

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RE: Bondage and health - 8/28/2007 5:40:58 PM

Celeste43

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Do not model tying up your partner on porn. That stuff is staged. Frequently the model is being supported by aides right up until it's time to shoot the pic, immediately afterwards she is released.

I'm sure you can see that there's a difference between being in that position for an hour versus a minute or two.

Start off slow, talk to your partner, release them after a little while. See how they feel later, hour later or day later. If the position didn't hurt then do it again for longer.

Tell them to yell out loud and fast if it's painful.

Myself, I like him to tie my hands last. That way I can adjust an ankle tie that is pressing on just the wrong spot, move it up a little bit. If there's a bit of skin being pulled, I can release it. By being able to adjust things, I can last longer.

What hurts most has never been my back but when bones are rubbing together. He likes my legs tied together but having my ankle bones rub is really nasty and then I can't enjoy anything, only try to grit my teeth. Since that isn't the effect he's going for, sometimes he'll put a folded towel between them but mostly I adjust my legs so that the bones don't meet.

Basically, just talk to your partner. If they have back problems, they'll feel the signs of it long before it gets to be a problem.

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RE: Bondage and health - 8/29/2007 4:20:21 AM

Master96

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Thank you Celeste43 :)

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Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

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RE: Bondage and health - 8/29/2007 4:56:40 AM

sadomasokisti

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There is big difference when you are tying someone up for 1-5 minutes duration or for 2-3 hour duration.

There is a tendency to try to make things that you have put a lot of time and effort into to last a little bit longer. I mean it can be a somewhat of a bummer if all of your planning, and 1 hour of tying up the sub with all the new things that you bough for this setup, if you have to cut the sub down after only 5 minutes. If you and your sub accept that, you can play with a lot of difficult positions and setups. On the other hand if you are into long therm bondage, you need to take ergonomic things into account like effortless posture, movements and circulation.

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RE: Bondage and health - 8/29/2007 7:12:31 AM

Master96

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Thank you sadomasokisti :)

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Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

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RE: Bondage and health - 9/1/2007 6:39:16 AM

Termyn8or

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Ironically (maybe not so ironically) I think bondage is healthy. You are stretching and doing isometric exercises.

However this depicts something that should only be very short term unless someone wants to ache. Or, actually it can be gotten used to like anything else, but I agree with Celeste, it is most likely this model was only in that position for a few seconds.

I wouldn't expect alot of these models are really into it, possibly just tolerate it for the money. But among real players there are two schools of thought. I like it to be comfortable, but left on for awhile. Long enough to get an unreachable itch, or be ready for a drink. Long enough for it to completely demonstrate your lack of independence. Comfortable enough to struggle against, even to the point of aching muscles, but that isn't all that different than the day after a rigorous workout.

Others see it differently. They would have their bondage almost painful, and in some cases with struggling punishable by something digging in or tightening. While this is not my flavor of it, it does exist. I think in these (real) cases the bottom must dig deep for the self control not to struggle while being teased or tortured. Perhaps that is the goal.

I saw a video years ago, actually a regular music video on cable or something. It had a Woman hooked to a spreader bar by the ankles and being lifted and dropped a bunch of times. I'm no dummy, when they dropped her on her head it was going very slow, so she did not get hurt. However once they sped it up artificially, it looked pretty gnarly.

The fact of the matter is nothing is real unless you are there. Unless you are bound or have someone bound, what is it you see ? Either you are looking at pixels on a phosphor screen, or pixels in an LCD panel which are being controlled by a computer. Even in the case of a regular photo, you are seeing grains of an image, simply recorded, not reproduced.

And even videos, when they control the scope of the camera, they can stage damnear anything. Judging from what I've seen, alot of porn operators who engage in taking pictures for profit are not really into it. They try, and they are trying to look more "extreme". But really they are just trying to make money. I have no qualms with that, but really they should hire some of us if not to design good bondage, at least as technical advisors.

I'm offa here before I cause a hijack, but I leave you with this. I think bondage is healthy and can even be considered a form of exercise. As long as it doesn't bend you out of shape so to speak. I think it possible that bottoms have a special mental strength they wish to draw upon, even display, and the only way to do it is to get tied up somehow. To be in what is colloquially called a "predicament".

You take a normal person off the street, drug them and let them wake up in some of the bondage some of us think is not even severe, and they would be screaming bloody murder. I don't know exactly what makes someone want to get tied up, but I can almost assure you it is not a weakness. Think about it.

T

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RE: Bondage and health - 9/1/2007 6:46:58 AM

RRafe

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I don't do any sort of bondage to someone I'd not reasonably be able to sustain myself. Which means I basically tie in reasonable positions and in ways that avoid ligature or joint distress.

As has been metioned-porno sites use ties for "artsy" effect-it's more about competition than practicality.

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RE: Bondage and health - 9/1/2007 4:37:23 PM

Master96

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Thanks guys...... :)

_____________________________

Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

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RE: Bondage and health - 9/2/2007 12:58:17 PM

Guilty1974

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Master96

http://www.hqbondage.com/free_bdsm/mar_12_07/images/009.jpg

How to prevent long term effects of such activities?

In this particular image, I would worry most about her balance. Should she loose it, she might really permanently injure her shoulders.

In general, japanese bondage and much of what you see on hogtied is meant to torture. Much of it is not safe, and people entering the realm of Japanese bondage should realise that they are taking risks. That said, the most important thing is to avoid nerve damage, by far the easiest lasting injury that can be gotten from even the most simple types of rope bondage. Also, get to know your partner really well and go slowly.

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RE: Bondage and health - 9/9/2007 5:38:39 AM

Termyn8or

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So, in general is bondage healthy ?

I am not talking about these positions where your hips, knees and shoulders get pulled out of their sockets, something a bit more normal, like on the four poster.

T

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RE: Bondage and health - 9/11/2007 4:30:53 PM

Celeste43

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It's healthy for me, it gives me great orgasms.

But as a bondage bottom, I can promise you that I'm not going into it thinking it's a predicament. More on the order of "Hot damn, I'm gonna get tied up and fucked senseless". I know he would always release me if I was in trouble or just wasn't into it.

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RE: Bondage and health - 9/14/2007 3:20:51 PM

Esinem

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Bondage rocks! However, there are a lot of ways it can get unhealthy. Nerve damage can catch you out, especially with suspension. Anyway, take a look at the safety notes I have put together: www.esinem.com/main-safety.html

If anyone wants to add anything to the safety section, please memo me.

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RE: Bondage and health - 9/14/2007 4:50:24 PM

NightWindWhisper

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This sort of reminds me of that cartoon where this guy, who has contorted himself into an odd position saying: "Doc, it hurts when I do this." The Doc replies: "Don't do that."

I agree with Celeste, indeed, Insex and Hogtie are staged--there is much "off-photo" work done. But--a couple can do the same. Certainly if the top indiscriminantly torques the bottom damage will occur. But, on the other hand, she could be working well within the limits of her body's abilities. Take a photograph of a Judo participant being thrown, or a clip of an Akidoist flying fifteen feet before landing on the ground and one might say "back pain and disk damage." However this is not the case with people who have learned how to do what it is they are doing. Rock wall climbing, martial arts, gymnastics--all have some risk, but not if a person proceeeds with intelligence and within the limits of their body. In d/s there are two particpants, and in a good relationship the dominant or top would never push a sub or bottom without knowing physical limits.

Actually looking at the picture, the weight is upon the pelvis, the back in a fairl neutral position. The real points of risk here are potential damage to the shoulders by overstretching tendons and ligaments. Also the interior aspect of the knee, if a person were to remain in this position for a long time are subject to ligament stretching leading to a condition called patello-femoral disorder. Simply put if ligaments on one side of the knee are over stretched or damaged (as in a fall or twist) the relationship of the muscless to the patella (kneecap) change, causing the patella to track a bit lopsided and often causing pain. This can actually cause kneecap damage over time.

I suspect though that this position is well within the limits and abilities of the person participating. Usually at the end of a Hogtie session he and she discuss the scene and I'm sure that she is actually the person deciding how for to push things relative to kinesthetics.

So yes, bondage is good--good for the soul, good for the genitalia, and well--just good, if done carefully.

Play safe peeps....

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