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What am I? - 8/31/2007 9:25:36 PM

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/31/2007
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Hi folks:

As you can tell from my post count I just joined...well, tonight. As I mentioned in my introduction I'm trying to figure out just WHAT I am.

Up until a few months ago I'd never experienced anything with BDSM. I'd been curious, but never took part until I began dating a woman who'd been active for the better part of 20 years. She started out as a sub, then assumed a dominant role later on and IDs herself as a switch. This seems likely - with me she seems more comfortable letting me lead, yet she wouldn't have been a domme all those years if she didn't enjoy it.

As for me - I seem to have tendencies for both roles. I like being in charge of a scene (even with my near total lack of experience), The look she gets in her eyes when she yields power is...unlike anything I've ever experienced. Watching her body react, listening to her as she surrenders to the moment are real turn ons. I think it's the confident (even when I'm not), assertive role that makes me feel good.

And yet....my first 'real' experience with all this, I was bound and sent straight into orbit by the sense of helplessness, by knowing I could really do nothing but feel what was happening. When she happens to pin my arm or leg under her body it gives me a surge of adrenalin. I prefer to please her, even at the expense of my own. I've long fantasized about spanking. Until I met her I figured it was idle curiousity since it almost never happened when I was a child. But the interest hasn't gone away.

AND YET....though I am eager to give her that kind of power, the very act - the pain - I don't like, and she's never been that harsh. When I'm 'on bottom' I tend to be a 'brat' - provoke, which is really nothing more than an attempt to direct the scene - a dominant trait. Anything along the line of denial and refusal is more likely to hurt or annoy rather than encourage me to be 'good' Not really the sign of a good sub.

AND YET...when I am 'on top', sometimes I feel like I'm missing something.

You see my problem. I've thought myself into circles on this topic. My fiance thinks I'm also a switch....maybe? I'm just not sure, and trying to piece it all together.

RE: What am I? - 8/31/2007 9:38:02 PM

Posts: 47
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline

I read your intro and now this. One thing stands out in my mind the most. You seem to need to figure it out right now. Why not just relax and play with your girlfriend and see how you feel. Read and study the lifestyle, read message boards and get a good feel for things. I don't remember if you mentioned how long you and your girlfriend have been together. Is this a newer relationship?

Whatever... I do wish you well and hope you find the answers you seek, but feel that no one can answer what lies within you. Just enjoy and be happy!

(in reply to CatKnight)

RE: What am I? - 9/1/2007 9:21:30 AM

Aine

Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline

I agree.

Why do you feel the need to compartmentalize yourself so quickly?

Enjoy yourself and just have fun.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to EternalInferno)

RE: What am I? - 9/1/2007 10:16:52 AM

Phin

Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
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Labels are just that, labels. I do see the importance of labels, but they do not define who or what you you are. Take the jeorney, see where it leads, enjoy the ride, then wonder what you are.

_____________________________

"Isn't wonderful when our bruises show what we hide in the back of our heads?"Fayetteville band, Nephilym

"He is my angel, my devil, my naughty boy, but above anything else my Master"My girl sin

(in reply to Aine)

RE: What am I? - 9/1/2007 11:25:29 AM

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Joined: 11/2/2006
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I agree. We're all unique. Some of us have very well-defined roles we like to play but many of us are flexible.

(in reply to Phin)

RE: What am I? - 9/1/2007 11:31:56 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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You are not playing fair.

Animal, vegetable, or mineral?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to ForestJay)

RE: What am I? - 9/1/2007 8:40:00 PM

Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline

You are what you are, plain and simple. What you are is far less important that who you are.

Over time and with experience, you may find yourself favoring one side over the other, or you may react differently to different people.

Really though, that only thing I'd be concerned about is whether or not you're enjoying yourself.

_____________________________

I still hear you scream... in every breath, every single motion

(in reply to CatKnight)

RE: What am I? - 9/1/2007 8:54:37 PM

WinsomeDefiance

Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline

Hi CatKnight,

First let me say, you are off to a pretty good start. You began your journey with great experiences. That's a wonderful testimony, in my opinion.

Whatever decisions you come to, take your time enjoying the journey that leads you to them.

(in reply to iammachine)

RE: What am I? - 9/1/2007 9:59:00 PM

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

I agree with the other replys you have gotten. Don't think so much, don't try to make sense of everything, it will just make your head explode. I am in the same boat you are and believe me, you WON'T figure it out.

Imagine if you felt the need to choose between chicken and beef? Would you have an identity crisis because you absolutely LOVE fried chicken, but the smell of a juicy hamburger makes your mouth water? AND, using the same analogy, just because you love fried chicken, it doesn't mean you will love ALL chicken dishes. AND it doesn't mean that because you don't like some chicken dishes that you are now a beef lover.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

RE: What am I? - 9/1/2007 11:56:50 PM

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

My read is that you're ruining your enjoyment of "it" by overanalyzing it. Does she care what you are by label, or does she just enjoy interacting with you? Go with the flow, let it happen.....and when it matters most, I think you'll determine what or who you are, because that might be different depending on the circumstances or the person you're involved with.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to CatKnight)

RE: What am I? - 9/2/2007 2:29:37 AM

e01n

Posts: 1472
Status: offline

<deep breath - OP, please repeat after me:>
The map is not the territory.
The word used is not the thing described.

There is a place for thinking and feeling your way around in all of this and frankly, it's the more comfortable way. Jumping in and saying "I feel X..." is scary to most men of a certain vintage *ahem* - hell, "feel" is a pretty alien word unless followed by tired, hungry or horny.

Unfortunately, the best way to explore "what you are" is to look to what feels right instinctively and not analytically. There is a certain benefit to beginning learning as a bottom - you can see and feel what's going on. When you top, your ignorance comes to the fore and breeds insecurity if you aren't an expert in something... That insecurity might be what you're feeling, or it might not. I know it's where I was when I was where you are.

The point of the quote to this is just this: don't let the language complicate the issue of identity (though some will try to persuade you otherwise that language is identity). Topping someone refers to an act or set of acts, Dominance refers to an attitude. Conversely, Bottoming refers to activities and Submission refers to an attitude. The attitudes are expressed through actions, but start internally. The activities express desire for sets of sensations, "desire" being an emotion shared by both D & S.

There is no right or wrong in this - just more accurate or less.

Personally, I'd stay more in "beginner's mind" - you're still learning, so pay attention and learn!

And have fun! Never forget to have fun!

(in reply to MisPandora)

RE: What am I? - 9/2/2007 7:13:54 AM

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline

First, thanks everyone for the kind replies and advice. It's helped a lot. I'd already thought through some of what you advised. It's nice to have it confirmed.

This is indeed a relatively new relationship (almost three months) so I'm probably the very definition of 'novice.'

I suppose my wanting to figure this out is a question of insecurity. I know very little. Probably just enough to get my mind going in circles. Most of what I've found online is... extreme?... and therefore completely useless to me. I do not like not being sure what I'm doing, especially when I am 'on top.' I'm grateful for the handful of sites I've found where the writers seem ... less extreme (he said nicely) ... and to have found this board to ask questions.

As for overanalyzing...oh, guilty. No argument. It's one of my strengths and flaws - I can break down a situation, but I can keep doing so to the point of paralysis.

In that respect, I do think it would have been better to start 'on bottom.' Fairly strong hints were... not rebuffed, but not followed through either. She seems happier to let me lead and occasionally hint/advise. It works alright and I've grown more confident, but doesn't change the lingering doubt that I know...not enough. Enough to guarantee basic safety - thank God she's not shy about safewords - perhaps that's enough to start with.

I think you're right though. I'm not going to be able to think my way through this. It's an instinctive question that'll resolve itself over time as we see what's fun, and there's no hurry or need to pigeonhole anything. TN's analogy about chicken and beef was amusing... and quite accurate, while e01n's definitions also helped.

Thanks again!

(in reply to e01n)

RE: What am I? - 9/2/2007 8:25:07 PM

e01n

Posts: 1472
Status: offline

Aw, fuck... I helped someone again? Shit shit shit dammit!

(in reply to CatKnight)

RE: What am I? - 9/2/2007 9:12:42 PM

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/31/2007
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Gee, e01n: Didn't mean to make you do something you didn't want to.

(in reply to e01n)

RE: What am I? - 9/3/2007 4:28:31 AM

e01n

Posts: 1472
Status: offline

In-joke between me and one of my friends - she asserts that because I have the capacity of help people, I have not a dominant bone in my body...

Nothing personal, mind.

(in reply to CatKnight)

RE: What am I? - 9/3/2007 7:56:08 AM

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

I'd say get hold of a copy of The Topping Book, and a copy of The Bottoming Book. Read them both, throw out and forget what doesn't fit for you, and have a good time exploring the rest.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to e01n)

RE: What am I? - 9/3/2007 12:18:57 PM

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Evanesce has a good point. You have lots of questions; Amazon has lots of answers. There are hundreds of books (of varying degrees of usefulness.) Do a search for BDSM and see what pops up. After the first two or three, you'll start seeing basic trends and patterns; no way is the one true way, do what you enjoy, communicate, establish trust, etc etc. Ironically, the things that make you either a good top or bottom, are the same qualities that make you a good relationship partner.

From what you've told us, I'd say you sound very much like a switch. I've bottomed in the past, and I don't enjoy. I rarely get along well with women who attempt to dominate me in romantic relationship settings.

It could very well be that your woman switches as a top or bottom, but prefers to be submissive in a relationship. Submissives can top, dominants can bottom; being submissive, usually means one enjoys being the receptor of authority in a relationship, while a dominant enjoys possession of authority in a relationship. A top is usually considered to be the one having control of a scene or play, while a bottom is the one receiving the control of a scene or play. One can be a submissive top, or a dominant bottom; I don't exactly think of that as being a switch, but there's really no established vocabulary for such distinctions.

Hope that helps.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: What am I? - 9/3/2007 12:34:10 PM

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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One of my Masters favorite expressions....."We are what we are."

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Stephann)

RE: What am I? - 9/3/2007 11:10:35 PM

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/31/2007
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e01n: Hm...I suppose it depends on the person involved of course, but I'd tend to disagree with your friend. If we assume the dom in a relationship picks up certain obligations to their sub - to help them explore their limits, or as a lifestyle to protect and care for them, then helping seems to be part of the package. I don't think being helpful is synonymous with submission. I'm not even convinced service is synonymous with submission - just as the sub in a relationship is giving what the dom needs, the dom's giving what the sub wants and needs. At least that's my uninformed opinion

breathe: Your master sounds like a wise person.

Evanesce: Thanks for the recommendations!

Stephan: I've thought long and hard about what you said. Yes, more research is called for. If I'm going to lead this kind of play, then I somewhat feel I've picked up the obligation to find out what I can as soon as possible. I'm sure I'm obsessing and overanalyzing again, especially since she doesn't seem to mind, but....meh.

I think you're right regarding my woman's submissive tendency - at least as far as we're concerned. Which is a little contrary - she seems to blindly rebel against authority at times. Perhaps it's a question of communications - I think that's important. That and I've never really put any effort into being stern.

I know she's used to topping (to seperate the role from the activity), so at first I suspected she is simply enjoying the change of pace. That may well be true, but reading your reply something else occured to me: Once when she asked me to lead, she said she felt safer that way. That could simply be a sub demeanor surfacing.... but now I'm a little curious if she's worried that, given her experience and my near lack of it, her topping might be too extreme. I know early on she held back quite a bit. I think I need to ask her about that.

For now I'm busy preparing my first planned 'scene' (vs. tie down/thwap/pinch/pounce) It's proven quite an exercise in imagination...and other sensations like anticipation. I'm definitely going to enjoy the moment and worry about details as they come.

(in reply to breatheasone)

RE: What am I? - 9/4/2007 5:54:10 AM

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Hi Cat,

Just a couple more thoughts then.

ORIGINAL: CatKnight

Stephan: I've thought long and hard about what you said. Yes, more research is called for. If I'm going to lead this kind of play, then I somewhat feel I've picked up the obligation to find out what I can as soon as possible. I'm sure I'm obsessing and overanalyzing again, especially since she doesn't seem to mind, but....meh.

Research gives knowlege, but is hardly a replacement for experience. Think back to what you knew of yourself ten years ago, and I'm sure you'll see my point. It's great to have enthusiasm for an activity, just be sure to keep it in context. A pitfall many 'newbies' fall into is that of hyperfocusing on the D/s or BDSM elements, and letting the more 'vanilla' interactions fall by the wayside. Don't think you -have- to be whipping, flogging, tying, blindfolding every time you see her, to keep her happy. She'll probably still enjoy nice meals, movies, music, art galleries, stamp collecting, or oragami if that's what you two did before. You'll find subtle or discreet ways to incorporate your newfound interests into your older ones as well (oragami wearing cuffs for example?) Point is, BDSM isn't who you are, it's part of what you do. D/s is part of who you are. Don't ignore the others.

I think you're right regarding my woman's submissive tendency - at least as far as we're concerned. Which is a little contrary - she seems to blindly rebel against authority at times. Perhaps it's a question of communications - I think that's important. That and I've never really put any effort into being stern.

Find me a submissive who never rebels, and I'll ask you to check her pulse. Don't think you need to 'become' stern to make this work. Be yourself. She fell for you originally, for who you are; not who you 'might' become. Really, this is an opportunity for you both to grow together. BDSM (for me) isn't an end in and of itself; it's a vehicle to share and express powerful feelings and emotions that otherwise have no real outlet.

I know she's used to topping (to seperate the role from the activity), so at first I suspected she is simply enjoying the change of pace. That may well be true, but reading your reply something else occured to me: Once when she asked me to lead, she said she felt safer that way. That could simply be a sub demeanor surfacing.... but now I'm a little curious if she's worried that, given her experience and my near lack of it, her topping might be too extreme. I know early on she held back quite a bit. I think I need to ask her about that.

You're trying both sides of the crop; ask her to have you immobilized, bound, or in some fashion severely restricted for 24 hours. Full on, serious, hard core slavery. Cage, closet, ropes, sensory deprivation, the whole nine yards. When it's over (and don't expect this to be easy) I think you'll understand better where she's coming from on the sense of safety and security she might be experiencing. It could just be her personality, but there's no small number of slaves and submissives with demanding leadership oriented jobs who actively seek that in their relationships, so they don't -have- to be in control all the time.

For now I'm busy preparing my first planned 'scene' (vs. tie down/thwap/pinch/pounce) It's proven quite an exercise in imagination...and other sensations like anticipation. I'm definitely going to enjoy the moment and worry about details as they come.

Good plan. Don't bite off more than you can chew. My first 'scene' was about 10 minutes. It was incredibly tame compared to some of the things I've since enjoyed. (the gold text is a link.) At this point, I'd suggest to approach it from a "what would we enjoy" perspective, strictly. Don't feel the need to prove yourself (including to yourself.) You'll have that chance once you've spread your wings a bit.

Good luck,

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to CatKnight)

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