RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out...

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RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 8:37:32 PM

Posts: 631
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Another imaginary Consitutional revision,
brought to you courtesy of the 'Tin Foil Hat, No Gurlz Allowed He Man Club',
FB founder.

So now tenants have no right to be secure in their persons and possessions?

Not his point, I suspect.

...and in general, "tenants" do not
(as re: non-corporate/commercial, aka: actual persons, here)
have any 'defensible' rights, in the eyes of the law...
speaking in general of course (from personal experience)

YMMV.

_____________________________

Black Water Dragon

(in reply to Alumbrado)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 8:42:24 PM

Posts: 631
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

They were asking to check the bag.... Big deal!!!
They were asking to see the man's ID... AGAIN, big deal....

If you want to support this man then go ahead, send him money like he is asking....

Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed?
geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs....

Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID...
AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide....

Camel's nose...

SO, your CM life is open and in the Public Domain?

_____________________________

Black Water Dragon

(in reply to kittensmailbox)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 8:48:19 PM

Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiyari

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

They were asking to check the bag.... Big deal!!!
They were asking to see the man's ID... AGAIN, big deal....

If you want to support this man then go ahead, send him money like he is asking....

Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed?
geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs....

Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID...
AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide....

Camel's nose...

SO, your CM life is open and in the Public Domain?

Yes it is... everyone who knows me, work, family friends etc.. everyone knows... i am not ashamed of who i am...

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to kiyari)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 9:03:36 PM

Posts: 631
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiyari

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

<snippage>

Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID...
AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide....

Camel's nose...

SO, your CM life is open and in the Public Domain?

Yes it is...
everyone who knows me, work, family friends etc.. everyone knows...
i am not ashamed of who i am...

Well then, you are either a very strong person
who also is independently wealthy [or otherwise immune from material concerns],
and/or one who has a deeply devoted loving circle about you.

What ever the reason, you are a Most Fortunate Person, in this.

Can you, however, appreciate that such is not the case for many of us?

...and not from Shame, so much as...
Potential and possibly devastating consequences, not always(!) rationally based.

_____________________________

Black Water Dragon

(in reply to kittensmailbox)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 9:06:57 PM

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed? geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs....

I knew two of those "Amicans," so I remember 9/11 vividly. So vividly, in fact, that it turns my stomach to see someone exploit and dishonor the tragedy by using it to score cheap points in an online debate about Circuit City.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to kittensmailbox)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 9:17:36 PM

Posts: 31
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline

It's about cowardice.

People who are willing to give up precious rights and freedoms for the promise of temporary safety neither deserve, nor will ever obtain, either one.

Cowards and vultures alike responded to 9-11 by claiming that "it's a different world, now", that our natural rights were somehow less important.

They are wrong. If anything, they are more important, and need to be defended more strongly.

Not surrendered to every fearmongering politician, whether a Bush or Clinton.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 9:33:43 PM

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Comments:
-Working under the assumption this story is entirely accurate, I found find in the favor of the author.
-The website strikes me as a likely scam. The attempts at claiming legitmacy so frequently for donations and the entire website being posted in such a short time when he's supposedly been deep in legal issues is particularly questionable.
-Is it or is it not illegal to refuse showing an officer an ID in such a situation? I would appreciate a reputable citing.
-Does anyone know how to research if the particular case is legitimate?

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 9:36:17 PM

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

I agree fargle, the exception being some of the buying clubs, where you actually signed and agreed to have it checked.

I have walked right past a security person before, as they ask for my receipt. I kept walking and smiled, they said to stop, and I told them if they really thought I was stealing to physically restrain me then. They didn't do anything. Someone has to see you conceal or take the merchandise before they are legally protected.

Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 10:31:08 PM

Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline

I was reading the comments on the web site and people were tearing the guy a new one. I left a comment, I asked him how did his monkey bread taste ? He has that in the first paragraph oh his legal trouble journey.

_____________________________

www.starhillcreations.com

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 10:53:42 PM

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

According to Ohio's law... You do not have to provide proof of identification. You do have to provide: Name, address, and date of birth. That's it. The law says nothing about state ID. It says nothing about Driver's license. And it specifically states you can't arrest someone who refuses to answer questions concerning a criminal incident. So the police officer did go beyond the law in this case.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 9/2/2007 10:54:46 PM >

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 12:37:17 AM

Posts: 19
Joined: 8/24/2007
Status: offline

I'll add my two cents in to this argument as a law-abiding tax-paying Retail employee. I work for Jo-anns and we have a policy on shoplifting. If you are detained for shoplifting, or suspicion of shoplifting and it is found that you did not shoplift, you can take the company that detained you to court for that. As the manager of the store did detain the man, by process of placing himself in the way of this person from leaving, and it was later found that he had not shoplifted, the wrongfully accused has the right to sue for settlement. Now we at Jo-anns have come up with ways around this that still deter shoplifters (some people just make it look like they are shoplifting to gain a settlement) but still, there will always be a problem.

_____________________________

"I've had nothing yet," Alice replied in an offended tone, "so I can't take more."
"You mean you can't take less." The Hatter said. "It's very easy to take more than nothing."

(in reply to cyberdude611)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 2:27:09 AM

obis

Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

Ugh, what a ridiculous, easily avoidable, waste of time and energy for everyone involved. If Circuit City had trained those employees for more than 15 minutes, they'd know exactly how to handle the situation, rather than having it escalate.

Of course stores that DO train their security tell them the same thing -- if you didn't see somebody steal something, don't you dare try to stop them, or we're going to be ass-raped in civil court. Stores that are open to the public have NO legal right to ask you to do anything other than leave.

(in reply to MadHatter)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 4:29:33 AM

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Comments:
-Working under the assumption this story is entirely accurate, I found find in the favor of the author.
-The website strikes me as a likely scam. The attempts at claiming legitmacy so frequently for donations and the entire website being posted in such a short time when he's supposedly been deep in legal issues is particularly questionable.
-Is it or is it not illegal to refuse showing an officer an ID in such a situation? I would appreciate a reputable citing.
-Does anyone know how to research if the particular case is legitimate?

This is a good point that hasn't been brought up yet: is the author's story entirely truthful, bereft of any bias?

I do not believe that at all. Just like if we were to hear this story solely from the Circuit City LP's point of view, we couldn't believe all of it.

Somewhere in the middle is the truth. I believe that this guy is trumping up the story, because he's apparently in love with being a martyr, gloryfing his actions to make them look like he was making a last, desperate stand against that pesky system.

Glancing back at the charge, Obstructing Official Business, it could be construed that not providing proof of your identification could be considered Obstructing. So what if the guy gave the cop a name and address. Where's the proof that he is who he claims he is? Perhaps he has a warrant out for his arrest, and is therefore supplying a false name.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 4:42:58 AM

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

This guy is a drama queen. He knew bloody well that he was being asked for reciepts on the way out. He enjoyed the attention in becoming above the law and being chased.

Just yesterday, I bought school supplies including a backpack. Since my last stop in that department store was to buy some movies, I paid all of my stuff at the DVD/CD closed area since I was there, and the lady suggested it, since there was no lineup. Leaving the store, I was wearing the backpack with the price tag still on it. I held the receipt up so cashiers on the way out can see it and I said, 'I bought this stuff back there'. So simple. If it were a family owned store, a small variety store, I would have done the same. These people get ripped off just as much as the leading department stores. Besides, it avoids such chasing down and drama in the first place to show a product receipt if a person's purchase is done differently or an on/off way as this guy had. He wanted the attention. Lil cry baby only didn't expect himself to be arrested to have the center of attention. Self-promoted fiasco. What a loser.

(in reply to lazarus1983)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 5:12:20 AM

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

Yeah, he is a drama queen. It reminds me of some other drama queens that wouldn't just pay their fair share of taxes, get in line, and shut the fuck up. We call those men the Founding Fathers of the U.S.

I can put this in perspective: It's just a silly store policy. It's a minor inconvenience. Etc, etc, etc...

But no, they do not have the right to sell you things and then forcibly detain and search you as if you were a criminal. That part is wrong.

However, some of you act as if you you'd bend over and grease up for just about anyone. You're all so well trained...

(in reply to came4U)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 5:47:19 AM

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

However, some of you act as if you you'd bend over and grease up for just about anyone. You're all so well trained...

If the cashier had have been a hawwwwwwtie man, I might have eaten the receipt beforehand and taken my chances later. LOL

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 6:31:39 AM

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

...and in general, "tenants" do not
(as re: non-corporate/commercial, aka: actual persons, here)
have any 'defensible' rights, in the eyes of the law...
speaking in general of course (from personal experience)

In the context of this story, the above is completely untrue... people who rent, whether a home or a business, have the same legal rights to not be raped, murdered, assaulted, or robbed, as do people in their houses. They enjoy the same Constitutional rights against unreasonable government actions, such as racial discrimination, arbitrary decisions, unlawful searches, and so forth.

(in reply to came4U)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 6:36:01 AM

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Comments:
-Is it or is it not illegal to refuse showing an officer an ID in such a situation? I would appreciate a reputable citing.
-

Here you go.

Odd that with all of these legal, law enforcement, and Constitutional 'experts' on the boards, none of them had a working knowledge of Hiibel (apologies to anyone who already posted the cite).

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 6:44:28 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiyari

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

They were asking to check the bag.... Big deal!!!
They were asking to see the man's ID... AGAIN, big deal....

If you want to support this man then go ahead, send him money like he is asking....

Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed?
geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs....

Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID...
AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide....

Camel's nose...

SO, your CM life is open and in the Public Domain?

Yes it is... everyone who knows me, work, family friends etc.. everyone knows... i am not ashamed of who i am...

I notice you're posting under a pseudonym.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to kittensmailbox)

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/3/2007 6:51:44 AM

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

You want to live in a police state.. go ahead.

It is a waste of taxpayers money to arrest a guy that had committed no crime. This man stole nothing from that store. There was no criminal incident involved. If the state pushes ahead with this, it is them who is wasting tax payers money.

The 4th amendment prohibits search or seizure without probable cause. If the store has no evidence of theft, they have no probable cause to conduct a search.
The Supreme Court has specifically stated that you have a right to remain silent during police questioning. You cannot be arrested or prosecuted for refusing to answer questions. That's part of the Miranda vs Arizona ruling.

How high can you make that stack of bullshit before it topples over on you?

According to the account, Circuit City did none of the above... you are either making things up, or have facts about this case that the author doesn't. Given that you ran away when asked where your 'facts' came from earlier, I'm going with the first supposition.

The 4th amendment applies only to unreasonable government conducted searches.

As already pointed out, the US Supreme Court in Hiibel said that people can be arrested for refusing to answer questions.

And finally, as you no doubt learned in the first weeks of your first criminal law class, the Miranda standard (based on a two part test, built on Acevedo as well as Miranda) only applies to self incriminating questions... which asking your identity is not, unless it is a crime to be you.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

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