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A question about communication - 9/5/2007 2:46:10 PM

Treasure3

Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Greetings everyone.

A comment in another thread caught my attention and has inspired this question. The comment is this, "I don't care which half of a D/s relationship you're in, I think that if something is lacking, it is YOUR responsibility to go to the other partner and say, Look, we need to work on ( insert issue here). "

I agree with this. What I struggle with is when I, the sub, am the only one making such comments. I don't think it even has to do with being submissive, but rather just being the only one to bring up issues in the relationship. Sometimes I stop and ask myself if I am being overly critical, but it certainly isn't like I am saying "we need to work on _____" every week. I don't bring up things very often at all, but it is more because I don't want to be the only one saying there are things that need to be worked on rather than because the issues aren't there - which I suppose is an issue that needs to be addressed in itself.

Has anyone ever been in a relationship with a Dominant where the Dom is the one reluctant to communicate along those lines? Maybe I'm just lucky to have always before found Doms who are better at communication than I am. I mean, I know there has to be something I do that annoys him or whatever. In a year and a half there has to be. Still, I haven't heard one peep from him about anything like that. I watch him in his other relationships (work, family, friendships) and he won't bring up things that bother him with anyone until he has absolutely no choice. I prefer to mention things before they fester and grow into big problems. He has some passive aggressive traits, with communication being the chief one I notice. Are there certain techniques to use to open the lines of communication more? Or, do I just continue to be the one who says, "I'm struggling with this, and we need to work on it"? I've told him I WANT to know if there is anything he is concerned about, that I can't read his mind, and I don't want something to cause problems in the relationship when it all could have been worked out if we had talked. Any ideas or experiences will be most appreciated.

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 3:01:27 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Doms are people. Doms can be very insecure people. Doms can be very insecure with no communication skills people.

And that's tough and it sucks, but it's true. Thank your stars when they don't use their domliness to just shut OUT communication altogether.

As much as it sucks, the more practice, the better. It's ok to say "I think we need to communicate about our communication skills." Communication really is the bedrock of every great relationship, and it's amazing how we are never given a single lesson on it growing up- we are given sucky horrible role models for the most part, a heaping help of baggage and manipulation on our backs, and then told by rote "Communication is important!"

That's great, breathing is important as well, that doesn't mean I have any idea how my lungs work or making them stronger.

So yes, it sucks, but keep working at it. These are skills that will take years to develop- BE the example for him, and realize he's likely always going to fall back on his bad habits when things get rough. But the more you practice it, the easier it will get.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 3:05:36 PM

desiroustoserve

Posts: 17
Joined: 8/18/2007
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Communication is critical. I would like to have more of it whether its regarding an issue or not. In fact, how does a D/s flourish when you speak to One once a week or month. That is my question. I've had to pull myself away from someone that I care very deeply for because of communication. Yet I fault myself for not being able to really approach it head on and express it. I needed more but I found myself dancing around the issue than saying outright how I was feeling. True enough someone needs to do it regardless of which side of the fence you are on.

I think being sub makes it harder to be the one who points it out or expresses it. I always felt like if I was expressive about it that I was coming off like I was trying to control things. My motive would have never been to do that.. It caused me so much pain that I was willing to walk away rather than deal with it because I felt it wasnt my place.

If it causes you pain or displeasure in the dynamic that you have. I dont see the harm in it. I think your answer lies in deciding what kind of person your Dom is. Is he accepting of most things you requests or need? Does he listen and receptive to what you are saying. Its still his decision in the end what he believes is the resolution or answer.. You need to be prepared for that kind of response too and be ready to accept it even if its not the answer you are looking for. Just my .02 cents.

I would express your desire or concern. Ultimately he has the final say in how he chooses to deal with that issue.

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 3:09:07 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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And you point out the irony that so many slaves put themselves through- by allowing your fear of controlling things to prevent you from openly communicating, you took control of the situation by withholding and eventually leaving altogether.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 3:22:28 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
And you point out the irony that so many slaves put themselves through- by allowing your fear of controlling things to prevent you from openly communicating, you took control of the situation by withholding and eventually leaving altogether.

That is an excellent point, LA. That kind of situation is mentioned over and over here on the forums. So many subs/slaves are so terrified of being seen as "topping from the bottom," that they will sit there with their mouths shut withholding information until communication completely breaks down.

I'm sorry but I just can't grasp that concept. I never attempt to actively control what goes on in our relationship but if there is something important on my mind, I'm not only allowed but damn well expected to give it voice. It's not "topping" if you don't have the authority to make the decisions. It's simply speaking your opinion or needs or whathaveyou. If done so with respect and with the realization that you may or may not "get your way" or influence the decision that is made, that is NOT "topping." It is being open and honest and communicative.

Just because I need to express myself or just because I may feel the need to ask for something He hasn't picked up on that I need at the moment, that doesn't mean I'm in control of anything. As His slave, I ask. He always has the right and ability to say "no." It's like so many subs/slaves think that all they have to do is ask for something and their dom/master has encountered kryptonite and can't refuse

. Believe me, my Master can and does. My asking doesn't guarantee I'll get it. Basically to us, it comes alot closer to "topping" for me to sit here needing to talk and express myself and refusing to do so. That is holding back, that is being deceptive, and that is - in my own way - controlling things. That is not permitted. Just my point of view..........luci

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 3:36:17 PM

servantheart

Posts: 960
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Houston, TX
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Hi Treasure3,

I think you were just now reading my mind....lol. I was having the same thoughts after reading that very same post.

Yes, I am in a relationship (vanilla marriage) in which I am the only one to EVER bring up issues. My husband, though a wonderful Father and a good Man in nearly every other respect, is content to live with the status quo. I've been telling him for years that if we don't work to stay close, we will drift apart. Apparently, he didn't believe me and well, I guess the rest is obvious. We are pretty much living together as room mates and staying together for the sake of the children. I've always been honest with him about my feelings and desires. When I finally stopped denying my submissive nature, I went straight to him and told him and did everything in my power for three years to involve him in this area of my life and personality. Unfortunately, the M/s dynamic isn't something he is interested in at all. He also is like your Dom in that he doesn't tell me the things I do that annoy him....I have to drag it out of him and he is extremely reluctant to talk about it. I hate having to be like that, but if I'm in a relationship, I want to know what I am doing that could use improvement as well as what I'm doing right. That way, there are no surprises and I can be as pleasing as possible. Likewise, my husband avoids conflict in his other relationships unless left with no other choice. I have uttered the same thoughts to my husband that you have to your Dom many times over the years.

What can you do to change the situation? I honestly don't know that you can. Unless he is willing to re-train his way of thinking, he won't change. I can only speak for myself based on my own, as well as the experiences of those close to me, but some people just can't or don't want to change. I guess my point is that sometimes you just have to know when to recognize when your efforts are not likely to be successful. I know this isn't very encouraging. I wish you luck in finding a way to get him to be more open with you.

Taryn

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When you really trust someone, you have to be okay with not understanding some things.
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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 4:13:23 PM

desiroustoserve

Posts: 17
Joined: 8/18/2007
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You spoke some truth there.

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 4:30:58 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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A lot of people hate bringing things up, they fear rejection. I'm assuming some of his past experiences had rejection and denial and anger at him for bringing things up. There are a lot of people out there who prefer to walk around the elephant in the living room rather than admit it's there. If he's like this with family, I'd guess this is where he learned such avoidance issues.

It may also be why he wants a d/s relationship because he believes that this way there can't be any arguing.

Suggestions; ask him about disagreements in his formative years. If he objected to something, was he yelled at or ignored or overruled? And assure him your response won't be that.

The other thing, and this is because I have enormous troubles bringing up issues myself, is to write letters. I've written letters on paper and I've emailed him. Not very much lately but we've been together four years now and probably it took me a good three plus years to stop being afraid of asking him for things or bringing up a problem. Written, the other person can't change around in their mind what you said, and they have time to think about it before answering with an automatic defense. And defending ourselves from a perceived attack is normal.

So instead of you bringing stuff up to him and expecting him to deal with it immediately, how about writing it to him and asking if you can talk about it Thursday after dinner, or Sunday on a walk in the park.

And if it's an emotionally charged conversation, try to be in his arms when you're talking. Because it's real hard to feel attacked when someone's holding you.

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 4:34:50 PM

Treasure3

Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Thank you to all who have responded.

I am fortunate in that most of the time he will listen to whatever I want to say, and those times he does try to play the Dom card to silence me I call him on it. He is also very good about making effort to work towards the things I have brought up.

I just feel like I am somehow saying he isn't doing things right, though I know that isn't really a rational thought. Like servantheart, I want to know how I can improve and be the most pleasing partner possible, and I want to know if I do something that may cause problems in the future. I, too, have been in a vanilla marriage (He was far closer to a submissive than ever being dominant.) where little things went unaddressed and they grew and grew until it devestated the relationship. I don't want that to happen again.

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 4:43:34 PM

Treasure3

Posts: 94
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Celeste, thank you for your insights and suggestions. I will indeed ask him about how things were handled both while he was growing up and in his past relationships. There was a lot of pain and betrayal in his last two relationships, and I am certain it is affecting him in this one. I try hard to be sensitive to that.

He almost always holds me close when we have any important discussion, or, when it is over the phone, he is very attentive and concerned to find out how I am feeling afterwards. It is hard to feel rejected when you're being held, and I am always careful to make sure I ask if he will cuddle with me if I need to discuss something with him, that and I try to be super aware of my tone of voice, keeping it soft and loving.

Writing is something I am very comfortable with. In all my other relationships I wrote almost everything big that I needed to say. I still do, but he isn't much on reading it. He would rather me talk about it. It seems to be a learning curve for both of us.

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RE: A question about communication - 9/5/2007 5:15:57 PM

goalie62

Posts: 114
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
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I try very hard to always remember that my sub is a human with feelings and wants and needs. Since she has been so wonderful as to gift me with her submission, then it is my responsibility to listen to her and meet her needs. No, I'm not perfect, far from it, but at least give me a chance to fix what's wrong. I may not be able to, but I cannot be accused of not trying if I'm given the chance.

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God, you have no idea how badly I want to put something profound here.

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RE: A question about communication - 9/6/2007 3:41:31 AM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: goalie62

I try very hard to always remember that my sub is a human with feelings and wants and needs. Since she has been so wonderful as to gift me with her submission, then it is my responsibility to listen to her and meet her needs. No, I'm not perfect, far from it, but at least give me a chance to fix what's wrong. I may not be able to, but I cannot be accused of not trying if I'm given the chance.

*applauds*

this is a recurring conversation Sir and i have, too. "if i dont know something is broken, how can i fix it?"

if i want to have a good relationship with someone (spouse, Dominant, friend, employer, relative, yardape, whoever) i have to be able to communicate. if there's an issue, and i dont bring it up, its now *my* fault if the issue festers and causes problems in the relationship.

kitten, who is getting better at asking for things she needs, whether words, or actions.

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RE: A question about communication - 9/6/2007 7:10:20 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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The effectiveness of communication often depends on tact and compassion. If it's always judgmental, and contains nothing but pressure over expectations.......it's going to tend to shut it down on the other end. Often, communication is not the issue-it's how you do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3

Greetings everyone.

A comment in another thread caught my attention and has inspired this question. The comment is this, "I don't care which half of a D/s relationship you're in, I think that if something is lacking, it is YOUR responsibility to go to the other partner and say, Look, we need to work on ( insert issue here). "

I agree with this. What I struggle with is when I, the sub, am the only one making such comments. I don't think it even has to do with being submissive, but rather just being the only one to bring up issues in the relationship. Sometimes I stop and ask myself if I am being overly critical, but it certainly isn't like I am saying "we need to work on _____" every week. I don't bring up things very often at all, but it is more because I don't want to be the only one saying there are things that need to be worked on rather than because the issues aren't there - which I suppose is an issue that needs to be addressed in itself.

Has anyone ever been in a relationship with a Dominant where the Dom is the one reluctant to communicate along those lines? Maybe I'm just lucky to have always before found Doms who are better at communication than I am. I mean, I know there has to be something I do that annoys him or whatever. In a year and a half there has to be. Still, I haven't heard one peep from him about anything like that. I watch him in his other relationships (work, family, friendships) and he won't bring up things that bother him with anyone until he has absolutely no choice. I prefer to mention things before they fester and grow into big problems. He has some passive aggressive traits, with communication being the chief one I notice. Are there certain techniques to use to open the lines of communication more? Or, do I just continue to be the one who says, "I'm struggling with this, and we need to work on it"? I've told him I WANT to know if there is anything he is concerned about, that I can't read his mind, and I don't want something to cause problems in the relationship when it all could have been worked out if we had talked. Any ideas or experiences will be most appreciated.

(in reply to Treasure3)

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