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BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 3:22:02 PM

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i'm starting this thread here because i feel it's relevant to BDSM, so my apologies to the moderators if they disagree. The other day i was reaing an article in the Washington Post regarding online dating services. The gist of the article focused on Match and eHarmony but stated "other services" as well.

What the article said was that online dating has grown in leaps and bounds over the past few years but at the same time, there's also an increasingly large number of subscribers unsatisfied with the results. Some studies put the number in the upper 40% range. The two main complaints were from Women (men are not being honest about their availability...i.e., they're married or already involved) and men (Women are not honest about their appearance).

But i got to thinking about the article in general as compared to a site such as Collarme. It struck me that "Vanilla" sites put a lot of emphasis on their ability to match people based on their qualities, personality traits, interests, and so on but they completely avoid the sexual side of relationships. It's as if the sites themselves subscribe to the general outward expectation that sex is something to be discussed behind closed doors and is not part of the formula! i find this bizarre as sex is a VERY important part of a relationship so how can they claim to be matching people without addressing it?

On the other hand, a site such as Collarme puts everything out on the table. Granted it's focusing on a particular type of alternative lifestyle but at least there's no restrictions about what can be discussed. Another thought that occurred to me is that most BDSM sites aren't "matching services" per se. Instead, they are a forum for the community to meet and discuss the lifestyle and the "personals" is more of a side feature. i find myself wondering what it would be like to find a BDSM site aimed specifically at providing a matching service. Even Alt, with all it's many features seems to fall short of doing this. True, they have a lot of questionnaires to fill out detailing personal traits, BDSM interests, and the like but the actual match is based mostly on ASL from what i've seen.

Anyway, i thought i would put this out there in case someone finds it interesting food for thought and has some points of their own to make.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 4:01:26 PM

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Although sex is a very important part of a relationship, I don't think stating that you enjoy anal sex or blow jobs is the best way to get aquainted. Once there is an interest started with someone, I'm sure sex will be talked about.
People who come to this site understand that BDSM is a common interest for the members, but we all still have to find out if we are compatible in other ways. Unless you are just looking to play.

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 4:29:38 PM

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Estring...
i understand your point entirely and perhaps need to qualify what i wrote as referring more to how a person feels about their sex life and how it matters to the relationship or something along those lines. For example, a lot of people have a great deal of inhibitions they haven't overcome, others may be very religious and see it as sacred or something, still others may be very care free about it.

i think a vanilla site could provide a bit more focus than the usual checkboxes listing something like: Are You?...Passionate, Frisky, Playful, I'll tell you later...and so on. Obviously, the site's not going to be pornographic about it but i still think it can be approached tastefully and more in depth. At the very least, give people the opportunity to talk about it (if they choose) in whatever way they can instead of ignoring it.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to Estring)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 5:39:11 PM

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Anthrosub: Get a life, your whining, your analysis, is not getting you what you want. And, what is that? A dominant woman, at whose feet you will be sitting, and who is served by you.

You have already been advised by others on ways to meet D/s inclined. What have you done about the advice given to you? Have you acted on it? Or have you just mused and sat and sighed deeply and then continued on your well worn path strewn with whines and rambling paragraphs.

You have an assignment, Anthro. Make a list of all the advice you have received here and start taking action. Stand up and lift your ass off the couch. Tell me, is your behind cellulite free (said in a raspy tone, with a glint in my eye, and nostrils flaring).

You're in DC, the capital of perversion, and with what's his name around for a few more months, a very active capital of perversion. Damn it, use humor, tell people you yen to sit at a woman's feet, to serve her, say it as a joke. Play dumb, it works, Anthro, it works.

I've gotten two bites (Ok, so it's after a year of trying) from my cellulite question from two marvelous men. We're presently testing the waters to see if we're on the same page.

Anthro, put one foot in front of the other, take a risk, all that can happen is that you are embarassed. And, being embarassed, having a red face, is part of the human condition. You can handle it darling, go out, armed with your list , your humor and the thought that you're being watched by some souls who truly wish you well.

I want a report on what you have accomplished!!!!

Ma'am

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 6:09:59 PM

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Well...let's see.

i'm not quite sure how this thread i started has managed to be misinterpreted twice in as many replies but i guess anything is possible. i'll try to be clear once again.

i read this article in the Post that got me thinking about online dating services compared to sites such as Collarme and thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss...that's all. How one goes from that to considering it a whine about not being in a relationship is beyond me. i still think this is the best and most mature site i've come across so i'll leave it at that.

Cheers!
anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to italianalala)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 6:21:51 PM

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quote:

Although sex is a very important part of a relationship, I don't think stating that you enjoy anal sex or blow jobs is the best way to get aquainted. Once there is an interest started with someone, I'm sure sex will be talked about.
People who come to this site understand that BDSM is a common interest for the members, but we all still have to find out if we are compatible in other ways. Unless you are just looking to play.

Well, I was extremely dissatisfied for over a year with the results of doing the bdsm checklist, etc., largely because I would take the woman to dinner and not have a freaking interesting thing to chat with her about other than her wanting to be beaten silly and cornholed repeatedly.

For me, if there is no mental connection Mr. Tiny is not interested in coming out to play.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 6:23:14 PM

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Hello,

As an added note, the question anthrosub raised is a relevant question on a message board such as this, imho, and I tend to think that personal attacks on him/her/it are rather peurile.

Can we go back to discussing the topic at hand please?

Again, my opinion, could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 7:49:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
As an added note, the question anthrosub raised is a relevant question on a message board such as this, imho, and I tend to think that personal attacks on him/her/it are rather peurile.

Can we go back to discussing the topic at hand please?

Again, my opinion, could be wrong.

Not wrong at all, in fact Sinergy, it is right on target.

The largest problem with dating services is that the clientele frequenting them arrive on the matching service’s doorstep suffering from social neophytism issues that are already preventing them from meeting people in their normal day-to-day lives. It is like opening a running store for the grossly obese. It is marketing a fair product to a dysfunctional client. I would be stunned to find that 60% of the people on dating services were actually coming away with quality dates and life partners.

People forget that we are animals, pure and simple. Psychologists have shown time and again that our opinion of a person is fixed quite solidly in under ten seconds. We gather an enormous amount of information about the person we are meeting in that first head to toe ‘once-over’. It is not that cliché’s and stereotypes are gauche. It is that they tend to be very accurate and we don’t want to believe that people can sum up our lifetime of existence in a few seconds.

Quite simply, nobody exists in my world until I have met them face to face. Online dating and long distance relationships statistically are doomed to failure. This is because the two individuals, lacking any real sensory data on their partner, invent in their minds whatever best suits their desire to fill in any gaps in knowledge. A woman falls for the online-Dom because he seems honorable and witty, he has such flair with words and is so caring. She gleans this information from a few short emails and read far too much between the lines. A man reads a few glib responses from the online-sub and determines that she would be an adoring respectful slave that would be creative and passionate in her submission. The truth is always far from the online fantasy. All of these truths would have been observed and recognized had the couple met face to face first, before they began to build the fantasy around the person.

Strip away our social morays and taboos and realize that sexual arousal and intimacy are what binds couples together long enough for familiarity, history and comfort become the driving force for their continued relationship. Sex is what causes us to seek out the other gender. Sex is one of the binding rituals that unite couples. But most importantly sex is the #1 reason that couples dissolve their relationship. It is not always the cause of the first fight, or the separation, but once that sexual line is breached with a person outside of the couple’s relationship, all hope of reconciliation is usually lost.

Long story short. If you want to find a good person, a good D/s partner, a good friend, find them in the caporal body, trust your animal instincts. Spend time with them. Have sex with them. Meet their friends. Have them meet yours. Be real and you will never be at a loss for company.
__________________________
Be good

Kurt

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 8:12:42 PM

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I think it is an excellent topic anthrosub. I have never used a dating service but my impression is they match people by personality and interests. I would imagine the topic of sex comes up pretty quickly once the two parties start chatting whether online or in r/l. BDSM sites tend to put sexual interests first and people try to find a compatible match from the profiles they read. Then once they find someone interested they chat or email about their other interests. I feel both sex and outside interests as well as personalities need to be compatible for a successful match. The difference is which is matched first. Both are important. Hope that makes sense.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/23/2004 8:43:50 PM

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quote:

This is because the two individuals, lacking any real sensory data on their partner, invent in their minds whatever best suits their desire to fill in any gaps in knowledge.

For one of my jobs, I put on a padded suit, am mean to people, and get kicked in the head repeatedly.

By the conclusion of class, some percentage of students want to pick out curtains and have my child because I am the most wonderful and kind man they have ever met.

I wonder what emperical evidence they base their conclusions on and run off to take a shower.

I suspect I am wrong, but it is something (people painting masks on my face and falling in love with the mask) I feel I am stuck with.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/24/2004 8:03:21 AM

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Anthrosub:

I do hope that you did not take my post as insulting you. In the few posts you have made I gagued you to be a highly intelligent man. Yes, highly intelligent -- the kind most women are looking for, one who is able to write a literate post, who can hold a conversation, who is cultured, who is sexual, who is loving, who is a bit submissive (for me, that is).

My hints to you about taking a proactive approach in meeting a woman were meant to get you out of the gate and freezing your reliance on cyber services. Very few people are pleased with the outcomes, the type of people they meet. Why rely on them?

(and why am I here?)

Our fingers paint the picture we want everyone to see: hopefully some of us are a bit truthful. But then what is truth. Doesn't exist in the USA govt.

Anthro, cyber sites are cyber sites are cyber sites. A person sitting across the table from us and speaking in real time without the pleasure of editing printed sentences is desirable.

cheers, Ma'am

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/24/2004 3:24:30 PM

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Italianalala...

Thank You for Your post and no, i'm not insulted. i'm online to contact and start (emphasis on the word start) getting to know a potential Partner in the lifestyle. Although many male subs have said they were able to meet vanilla and enter into the lifestyle later by introducing the idea to their mate, my life is not conducive to that happening. In fact, my situation is such that meeting anyone even for simple friendship is difficult; hence, my relying on sites such as Collarme.

i've had a couple relationships develop but for unforeseeable reasons that had nothing to do with how suitable we were to each other, they didn't work out. i'm good friends with both of them though. You are right about the value of meeting face to face versus online...it's a shame there are not more people in the lifestyle that would potentially make a match where i live. i've come to realize that most successful lifestyle Dommes by definition already have a mate. At least, that's how it looks from here.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to italianalala)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/24/2004 6:26:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

i've come to realize that most successful lifestyle Dommes by definition already have a mate. At least, that's how it looks from here.

<smile> The truth is that I'm not sure where you're from. I don't recall and haven't read your profile to confirm. Having said that, I like to think of myself as a fairly successful lifestyle domina who doesn't have a mate.

Of course, I don't especially want one, either; but you didn't mention if that was a criteria in your statement.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/24/2004 7:02:54 PM

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Anthro:

Don't assume. I'm, I think, successful, and do not have a mate.

Mateless and being proactive, la di da.

cheers

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/24/2004 7:33:00 PM

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MizSuz and Italianalala...
Thanks for pointing Your situation out. i must admit, i didn't think of those who prefer the independence. But in my defense i did qualify by saying "most" not all. This whole thing is really one big grey area anyway and i was just generalizing to express my impression to date. i think a lot of folks go through some time in their life where they prefer to be unattached (or wish they could). Anyway, i stand corrected.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to italianalala)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/24/2004 10:58:15 PM

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I find online "dating services" like pie in the sky. They promise, friendship, joy, and imply love. For thousands of lonely, socially inept people, this is a dream come true. Whereas in BDSM, this site in particular, most of us are realistic, and understand that if you type I am a 28 y/o bombshell, that at some point you are going to have a reality check when a flesh to flesh meeting is arranged. And you know they will see a 40ish, 50ish, whatever, rail thin, or pudgy person, with greying hair. To add a slight twist to anthrosubs initial question, I suffered through the "helpful" friends wanting to set me up with a blind date or twenty laughing, who were just sure they found mr perfect for me. Bottom line, truthfulness, compatibility, and great timing finds a good match. No short cut will make it happen faster. Tess

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~~~~~Enjoy the ride, the landing could get painful~~~~

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/27/2004 11:36:51 AM

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All very interesting posts. My experience has been that if you are going to frequent on-line dating sites, the best thing to do is arrange a face to face meeting as soon as possible. That will allow you to decide if there really is something there. No amount of email and IMing will help you to feel chemistry....you may fall in love with the words, but will you still love the bad hygiene, and missing teeth? I think not. Be careful in all things.

(in reply to Sundew02)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/27/2004 3:58:53 PM

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italianalala,

Cut him some slack!

Whining my ass. He asked a question. People on these boards do that sometimes. If he does it in a whiny way that is his problem, not yours. I can see you're just being like football coach saying "I've never seen a sadder buch of losers..." to fire up the team. Still it seems a tad harsh.

Comparing collarme with imatch.com or the thousands of vanilla sites is a valid comparisom (or contrast).

One gets the HNGs and the other gets the FSCs. (Frigid Single Chicks) (No the best way to never have a vanilla women reply? Ask her if she wants to wear the handcuffs or hold the key. And guess what? That is an important question to know the answer too before I end up dating a submissive woman.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to italianalala)

RE: BDSM Sites vs. Vanilla Dating Sites - 6/27/2004 4:02:59 PM

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My stats are old and from memory, but something frightengly high like 84% of women on Match.com said they would break up with a guy who got them an insufficient Valentine's day gift. Something like 60% of posters there were male.

Here I can be rejected for who I am not my Valentine's gift.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to anthrosub)

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