RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:23:28 PM

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Well yes Jay, if we all submit to Islam there will be peace (though you might want to explain that to the Muslims of Darfur who thought they could keep thier language and culture and are now being exterminated by the Peace loving Arab speaking Muslims of Sudan). I look at the reaction of the Muslim world to the ongoing slaughter and find not much but a big yawn and saying they deserve it. If we were all happy slaves of anything there would be peace (absence of conflict). That is not the sort of world I want, perhaps you do.

(in reply to luckydog1)

RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:23:47 PM

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We aren't occupying Germany, Italy, or Japan....

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:26:11 PM

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Uh, thier governments are required by our law to use the Constitutions we wrote for them. And we keep massive armies in thier nations. How do you define "occupation"?

(in reply to jaymckenas)

RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:27:41 PM

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I do not desire us to be "slaves" to anything. The idea of peace can be attained through Christianity/Judaism/Zoroastrianism/ etc. etc. etc. It's merely a matter of coming to terms with tolerating each others existance. You have no knowledge of Islam, you know only of fundamentalist sects and terrorist groups as well as ethnic-spurred conflict in sudan. That has nothing to do with Islam, it is deeply ethnically motivated, not religiously. You seem to frown upon my ideologies and even your misinterpretations of them are better than your outlook, considering your complete indifference to the massive genocide occuring in Sudan, how can you be one to judge a quest for peace? Perhaps if the US was aiding the Sudanese instead of decimating Iraq, such things could be avoided.

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:29:17 PM

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None of those three are required to follow consititutions we wrote for them. If they were, they'd probably be in Iraq right now....

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:30:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

"Imagine what life would have been like, if FDR or Truman had gamed WWII,to make it last in-deffinately.Like bush is doing with the Iraq war.He just said in his speech,that we weren`t leaving Iraq,and that the next president will have to deal with it. That is the definition of cowerdice. "

We haven't left Germany, Japan, or Italy. So you are saying FDR did set up a perpetual war and calling him a coward. you said this in an attempt to deflect from your quote of his nonsense"nothing to fear..." he rounded people up by race and grabbed power in un preceented ways.

He didn`t game the war, to make it last forever(like bush).

He won WWII ! And did it in 4 years.

And he won the peace.Something bush has no clue how to do.

Right now, we`re referees in a civil war.There was nothing like that,in WWII.

We didn`t act unilaterally in WWII,and had no real imperialistic ambitions,like the Europeans did.

What`s your point?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/13/2007 8:31:35 PM >

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:32:09 PM

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Your smoking rock Jay. All 3 are helping us in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are forbidden by the constitutions which we wrote and imposed at gunpoint (a-bomb point) to have offensive armies (Germany and Japan, Italy has an army but it is tiny.. again by our imposed law)

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:34:04 PM

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owner59 so you are saying Bush should act like FDR, and round up the Arabs in America and start carpet bombing and throwing nukes? Somehow I do not think you are.

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:36:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Uh, thier governments are required by our law to use the Constitutions we wrote for them. And we keep massive armies in thier nations. How do you define "occupation"?

Not Italy or Japan. We left almost right away,and on good terms.Bush wants us in Iraq indefinitely,at a 1000 soldiers killed a year.Do you really think that`s a good idea?

We stayed in Germany to fight the cold war.This is History 101.

What`s your point?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:38:11 PM

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Actually (a minor quibble), Japan has an offensive army...they revised things a few years ago.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0206/p06s01-woap.html

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:40:45 PM

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owner we are still in Japan and Itlay. We never left. We stayed in all 3. Simple undeniable fact. Why you are pretending otherwise is way beyond me. Bush wants 1000 dead a year? I do not think so. But then of course you can read minds and support punishing people on what thier thoughts are decided to be.

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:46:28 PM

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Not really an offensive army, did you read the whole article....
"Japan can count on America, and increasingly, America can count on Japan," he said. But he nudged the nation to expand "self-defense" to include the defense of US forces should they come under attack near Japan. "We're just working for a little more flexibility so that the US and Japanese colleagues of the Self-Defense Forces would be able to come to each other's assistance should it be necessary," he said.

And as I already pointed out they are helping in the mideast with supplies and logistics.

And they are doing it to a large degree because we want them to, which I think bolsters my point.

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:50:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Your smoking rock Jay. All 3 are helping us in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are forbidden by the constitutions which we wrote and imposed at gunpoint (a-bomb point) to have offensive armies (Germany and Japan, Italy has an army but it is tiny.. again by our imposed law)

It`s almost a Freudian slip on your part,luckydog,when you said "All 3",because that`s about how many men Italy and Japan, have in Iraq,.....3.

And Germany has zero troops, in Iraq.Google,use it.

As far as smoking dope,your pipe runith over,luckydog.

Consider yourself wrong and corrected,lucky dog.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:56:38 PM

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Hmm, so you do not know what a freudian slip is. Just a fancy word for you to use. Germany is heavily involved in helping us there....they do not have an offensive army, so they are not helping in that regard (troops on the ground). So what? I never asserted that Germany has a single soldier in Iraq. All 3 governments are providing massive help to the effort though. It is great that you can attack and disprove things I never even came close to asserting. Do you know what that is called? So I guess we have beaten this to the ground and you are admitting your loss. Because that is what making a strawman argumet is, an admit of intelectuall defeat.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 8:57:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

owner we are still in Japan and Itlay. We never left. We stayed in all 3. Simple undeniable fact. Why you are pretending otherwise is way beyond me. Bush wants 1000 dead a year? I do not think so. But then of course you can read minds and support punishing people on what thier thoughts are decided to be.

Do the math.

We`re losing a 1000 men a year right now,and the death rate is rising.An undeniable fact,btw.bush wants us there till he leaves(said so tonight),and beyond.
That`s a 1000 right there,and then there`s the mess to clean up after he leaves,assuming he leaves voluntarily.

Bush wants 1000 dead a year? I do not think so.

He just said tonight,that he`s kicking the can down the road,and leaving the mess for the next pres.At the rate our men are dying,that`s a 1000,or more dead,before he leaves.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/13/2007 9:01:26 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 9:00:06 PM

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He wants the soldiers to die? I disagree. I think he considers it a neccessary loss, which is a point that can be debated. Of course I can't read minds like you...

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 9:01:17 PM

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Luckydog... Your "intelecuall argumets" are astounding.....

The Germans want nothing to do with American involvement in Iraq and are providing minimal assistance.

The US has no right infringing on Iraqi sovereignty, and Germany, Italy, Japan are all intelligent enough to know that.

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What can I say? When Bananas dance, I watch.

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 9:04:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaymckenas

Luckydog... Your "intelecuall argumets" are astounding.....

The Germans want nothing to do with American involvement in Iraq and are providing minimal assistance.

The US has no right infringing on Iraqi sovereignty, and Germany, Italy, Japan are all intelligent enough to know that.

Infringment, shidgment....

neo-cons think they own/run/can fuck the world,and everyone in it.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to jaymckenas)

RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 9:05:22 PM

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Touche' Owner.

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RE: 9/11 non-sympathizers - 9/13/2007 9:05:44 PM

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Jay, we have massive staging bases in Germany. They could certianly order us to leave and stop us from using places like "Ramstein" (its more than just a crappy band). All 3 nations are helping us. At this point we have the backing of the UN (go look it up, they gave us the mandate to occupy the place and keep renewing it) and the Iraqi government to be there. Please put down the pipe and pick up a book.

(in reply to jaymckenas)

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