RE: RED Flags (Full Version)

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MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 3:42:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

you know you have found a bad submissive when they post shit like this
much harsh
you know you have found a bad submissive when they think that calling safe word is magically gonna stop the damage rather than be damage control.
huh?
you know you have found a bad submissive when they can't spell the word submissive.
unfair, some people have dyslexia and such.


I think I've made my point.
uh huh. [:D]


I'm gonna call you out here [:D]
Why is the submissive always the bad one?
Don't think I've seen you ever criticise a Dom / domme.


Maybe because to feel better they must be critical of others.... They see as below them... but wait that would make them a bad Dom




MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 3:45:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

you know you have found a bad submissive when they post shit like this

I've seen doms post stuff like this, about doms and subs. Is that another "you've found a bad dom when..."?
quote:


you know you have found a bad submissive when they think that calling safe word is magically gonna stop the damage rather than be damage control.

There is no excuse to ignore a safe word at a play party. When you go into a play party you consent to the rules. If the rules say "stop when the submissive uses the safeword" you stop. It has nothing to do with  your opinion on safe words working or not, it has to do with the fact that you agreed to play by those rules. In your own house, you make the rules.
quote:


you know you have found a bad submissive when they can't spell the word submissive.

No, you've found a bad speller. If being a bad speller makes someone a bad submissive or a dominant, the population of collarme is about to get a lot smaller.
quote:


I think I've made my point.

And I think I've made mine.


And made it very well I might add way to go AquaticSub




MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 4:09:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boeijen

Safewords are damage control. They are called after the damage is done. And damage is not always possible to be seen by a TOP (not a D-type...as not everyone on THAT side of the toy is a D-type....and we're talking about playing here).

I think there's WAY too much...this D-type is bad...this top hurt me...well duh. No shit that's what the top is supposed to do. And I see all this responsibility being thrown on the tops and D-types...what about the submissive who goes to a fucked up guy anyways after being told he's fucked up? Who's fault is that then? We're adults. We can remove someone's hands or bite them or get really loud at a party like "Excuse me asshole why are you in m stuff/get your hands off of that!" And I bet said person is gonna be a bit embarrassed.

Basically we all know some macho asshole who's gotten ahead of themselves. We also all know some idiot who thinks they're the end all cure all for said asshole. It's their fault for being involved and for not checking shit out to begin with. So why are there multiple threads of this nature?


First off a safe word is much more then damage control. it is the only control a sub or slave is given if she is being pushed to far.... Second if a Dom is that irresponsible he can not control the scene so DAMAGE IS NOT DONE he should NOT be in control. A sub or slave trusts us as the Dom to care for them at the same time we test there limits. WE are the one in control of the play ... WE are the one responsible for knowing how far to push .. WE are the one responsible to make sure DAMAGE is not done.... WE are the one who has been trusted by the play partner to stop when a safe word is used..

If WE can not do all of the above me should not be in the position of control and responsibility...




Celeste43 -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 4:14:07 PM)

If he tells me he's returning me to the SPCA then I will bite him on the ankle. After all, if I'm already a bad dog I might as well go for it. Of course, there goes my dog biscuit.




DomN8USlave -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 5:15:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Safewords are damage control. They are called after the damage is done. And damage is not always possible to be seen by a TOP (not a D-type...as not everyone on THAT side of the toy is a D-type....and we're talking about playing here).



(See comment in red) Then that would make them a bad Dominant/Top/Master/Domme




TNstepsout -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 5:34:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I found a bad Dom once.  He invited me to chat and the first thing he said was "I'm actually a switch."  The next thing he said was "Are you a switch too?"  When I said no, I need a man who can and will dominate me he said "Oh, should I go then?"

Yeah...he was a reaaaaaaaally bad Dom.



Awwwww, that's so cute. I hope he found a nice Mistress.




ELUSIVE1 -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 6:56:28 PM)

 This post kind of reminds me of a run in I had a few years back with 'cyber-saviors'...they would troll the alt.lifestyle sites and contacted me warning me [and a few others among my group of friends] about my  life choices...




xoxi -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 6:58:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I found a bad Dom once.  He invited me to chat and the first thing he said was "I'm actually a switch."  The next thing he said was "Are you a switch too?"  When I said no, I need a man who can and will dominate me he said "Oh, should I go then?"

Yeah...he was a reaaaaaaaally bad Dom.



Awwwww, that's so cute. I hope he found a nice Mistress.


So do I :)  He was really hot too...like really amazingly hot.  I guess his biggest problem would be taking the "Dominant" off his profile and realizing it's okay to be a switch or sub even if you're a hot guy with biceps from God himself and pecs that I want to rub my face against for hours.  Heheheee




goodgirl85 -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 7:32:59 PM)

So the OP wanted to vent, or maybe she was looking for more red flags... why does this post make her look bad? And BoiJen I just have no use for you. I read your posts so I can laugh. Have you ever heard the phrase "live and let live" yeah, maybe you should stop critizing everyone else's life choices and focus on your own. After all this is the internet and the people here and thier opinions (oops I typoed and spelt their wrong, maybe I should tell my Dom that I'm a bad submissive and he should release me) can't possibly affect your life that much.




Bobkgin -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 7:44:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Actually a safe word might just magically stop the damage.  Especially if used when the rope is pulled so far your arm is about to pop out, or your leg just cramped and being in the same position is excruciating, or you're tied so tight blood circulation is cut off.

And ignoring a safe word is going to multiply the damage exponentially.  What could have been solved with "I'm sorry dear I didn't realize" is now going to be met with "Why didn't you listen when I used the safe word?  I am never going to play with you again and I am going to make sure every single person you know in the scene hears about this IN DETAIL you fucking asshole/cunt, and you're damn lucky I won't call your mother and tell HER too."



Does a safe word really matter if any of the things I highlighted are happening?

Any dom/me who isn't on top of the situation such that these things do not happen, is not a good dom/me.




missturbation -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 7:51:03 PM)

the rope is pulled so far your arm is about to pop out,
some people are more flexible than others.
 or your leg just cramped and being in the same position is excruciating,
cramp happens no matter how good a Dom you are
 or you're tied so tight blood circulation is cut off.
again blood circualtion differs from person to person so not always controllable.
 
The occurence of these things does not a bad dom / domme make.
Not acting on them when they happen would.





xoxi -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 7:52:04 PM)

Um...yes actually.  That's one of the reasons safe words are there.  Because twenty years of experience still doesn't mean a person is infallible.  Leg cramps can happen to anyone, rope can get tighter as its pulled against, and even a shibari master can overestimate a person's flexibility, especially if it's below average.

So if a safe word DOESN'T matter when someone's arm is about to be popped out of the socket does that mean they should just go ahead and let it be dislocated?  Because then they get to blame the Dom/me like *that* will change anything?




Bobkgin -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 8:07:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

the rope is pulled so far your arm is about to pop out,
some people are more flexible than others.
 or your leg just cramped and being in the same position is excruciating,
cramp happens no matter how good a Dom you are
 or you're tied so tight blood circulation is cut off.
again blood circualtion differs from person to person so not always controllable.
 
The occurence of these things does not a bad dom / domme make.
Not acting on them when they happen would.



A good dom/me will know enough about his/her partner as to know the limits of their body, or else not push so far as to hit the limits.
Anyone tying a slip knot around a body part should know enough to check the condition of the part that is tied. Unless that is the kink, there are many better alternatives that do not affect blood circulation such as to cause a problem. If there is a medical condition, a good dom/me should know about it.

The idea is not to break the sub until a safeword is uttered. The idea is a safeword is an emergency stop button, to be used only in emergencies.

A good dom/me never loses control of the situation such that an emergency occurs.

It is the bad dom/mes who lose control.

This is, of course, assuming the submissive is doing what he/she should be doing. Deceipt on the part of submissives can lead to disasters where the dom/me is not responsible (unrevealed medical conditions, for example). A good dom/me will ask all the relevant questions and confirm their understanding of all the answers given.




missturbation -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 8:11:59 PM)

A good dom/me will know enough about his/her partner as to know the limits of their body, or else not push so far as to hit the limits.
Sorry but for certain things tolerance can change from day to day. I know from my own experience if i have had a heavy days lifting at work my flexibility the next day can be effected due to stiffening up.
 
Cramp can hit anyone and at any time and be excruciating from the word go.
 
A good dom/me never loses control of the situation such that an emergency occurs.
Accidents happen, if you have never had one you are lucky.
 
The idea is not to break the sub until a safeword is uttered. The idea is a safeword is an emergency stop button, to be used only in emergencies.
I'm perfectly aware what a safe word is for. I would appreciate you not speaking to me as if i am a child. You may be far older than me but it does not give you the right to speak down to me.
 
It is the bad dom/mes who lose control.
Could you define your use of the word control here?


 




Aileen68 -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 8:17:51 PM)

I would kind of hope that if I was scening with someone that they wouldn't be so technical and proper.  I want them to be able to enjoy all the sensations too.  If they are so aware of all of the "bad and dangerous" things that could happen then how much can they really be enjoying themselves.  Don't get me wrong... if there's something going on that's more dangerous, breath play, knife play, etc. then they should be very aware.  If it's a fun spanking and they're getting into it and don't hear me say I have a charlie horse the first time or that my ass is really hurting then oh well...I'm certainly not going to have any serious harm.  To me it depends on the situation.
I'm rambling because I can't really explain what I mean.

edited to add some missing words and to add that this was a fast reply.




WinsomeDefiance -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 8:33:14 PM)

For those who use safewords, they don't necessarily mean stop the scene.  Sometimes it just means something is detracting from the scene that needs addressing.  Cramps happen.  Sweat drips into eyes and stings sometimes.  Gods, the number of things that can become intolerable are as varied as a persons creativity can envision.  To claim someone is a bad Dom/Top, simply because something happens that detracts from the scene, is rather limiting the Dom to being either Super Hero'ish or Infallible/Omniscent.  Its ridiculous to even contemplate that every scene must always be perfect because the Dom is experienced.  There are times when I'm more physically capable of enduring things than others.  Granted, my safeword is 'goddammit mother fucker - STOP' otherwise I'm usually good to go, but that's beside the point.  Ok, yes, its been a long time since my olympic cross-climbing days, but I do have a vague recollection of bouncing around in a bondage chair the leg of which landed on my toe.  Another one of those safe-word moments.  Ok, maybe he shouldn't have been laughing so hard, he ddn't see the chair land on my toe, but shit happens. 

As for the rest of the red-flags.  Not sure I have anything good or bad to say about them.  It doesn't matter so much if I agree or disagree, because they aren't MY red-flags.  I can see the OP's point on a few of them, and not so much on others.  My red-flags arise from learning a person.  If their actions don't measure up to their words.  If their integrity is deficient, their ethics malleable or their morals questionable - those are red flags for me.  The rest, not really an issue for me.  If I negotiate a scene with someone and a safe word is part of those negotiations - if that safeword isn't honred its a gross breach of trust and god help that person when they finally untie me.




RRafe -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 8:35:55 PM)

Drma drama drama drama drama chameleon....................[:D]




LadyHugs -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 9:03:20 PM)

Dear kirby104, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
What is offered as a list of observations--is really poor and or no manners, regardless if Dominant and or submissive, male and or female.  It really is an individual person's issue more than anything else.
 
I have seen and or experienced ugly behavior from Dominants and submissive types, to which have been revolting to me.
 
The fact that people come here, use a variety of nicks for evil intentions, like create two people as to play the game of good person and bad person; when in fact they are one in the same.  I've seen one Dominant male have two "screen identities" same time so he could play this 'game.'  Only when that person slipped up--did I know for sure.  There are a host of others who seemingly think that people won't pick up on small details to catch them doing multiple screen names and playing all for fools.  This is the hazards of cyber exchanges.  Some do not find it necessary to create multiple personalities, profiles and the like--which is often creates the drama and nothing to contribute other than jerking people's chains.
 
Insecure people and controlling and or domineering,(not to be confused with dominants) have a tendency to blame others for their misfortunes.  It could be in a reality, a conflict of interests and or personality traits--both are not wrong or right--just a miss-match.  Paired up with a person who is better suited--opinions and experiences change.  To be right at any cost to the point of becoming a rear-end to a huge smelly and lack of hygeine to which dangles a hanging chad of "BS" -- Only shows the attacker to be an exact mirror of what they hate in others.  I don't call others on how obvious this is to me--I wait for someone else to call them on it.  Not responding to the baited behaviors of an insecure/domineering know it all, just drives them to attack people who they cannot control and or intimidate all  the more.
 
As to the issue of 'safe words' and 'safe gestures/signals' -- I am of the hope that these are seen as helpful tools but, not the fail safe behaviors in stopping things going badly.  There might be a time when a submissive/slave cannot respond, e.g. in a state of subspace where they are out of body and though screaming to stop, their body is limp and unresponsive and or look of relaxation on a physical state for a Dominant.  Dominants are not mind readers but, experience teaches.  When in a scene, I tend to be understated and check in to make sure I have a person who is aware.  Subspace/flying affects people differently and a Dominant needs to act as to the situation they have.  The possibility of seizures or a stroke should be discussed.  It can happen to anybody-anytime without prior history.  I cannot see how a Dominant can be held accountable for a siezure and or stroke that is just as much of a surprise to the submissive/slave as it is the Dominant.
 
As for many other spelled out examples, like submissives taking off their collars--I've seen plenty of 'said' submissive/slaves take their collars off when it isn't playing into their self gratifications 100% of the time.  When it is self serving and the motive is for self gratification and not invest in another--it will fail.  I see them as spoiled brats who can't get their way all the time, so they tear the collar off, grab their marbles and stomp off in a dramatic huff.  Such people don't play well with others and they are attention vampires.  A Dominant tired of being the 'service Top' grows tired and quits if they don't get fed also.  Relationships aren't about just one person--it is about both and or more involved.  It requires a lot of communication, understanding and huge doses of patience and compassion.  You get back as much as you invest--especially when dealing with other people.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 
 
 




MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: RED Flags (9/13/2007 9:26:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkin

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

the rope is pulled so far your arm is about to pop out,
some people are more flexible than others.
 or your leg just cramped and being in the same position is excruciating,
cramp happens no matter how good a Dom you are
 or you're tied so tight blood circulation is cut off.
again blood circulation differs from person to person so not always controllable.
 
The occurrence of these things does not a bad Dom / domme make.
Not acting on them when they happen would.



A good Dom/me will know enough about his/her partner as to know the limits of their body, or else not push so far as to hit the limits.
Anyone tying a slip knot around a body part should know enough to check the condition of the part that is tied. Unless that is the kink, there are many better alternatives that do not affect blood circulation such as to cause a problem. If there is a medical condition, a good Dom/me should know about it.

The idea is not to break the sub until a safeword is uttered. The idea is a safeword is an emergency stop button, to be used only in emergencies.

A good Dom/me never loses control of the situation such that an emergency occurs.

It is the bad Dom/mes who lose control.

This is, of course, assuming the submissive is doing what he/she should be doing. Deceit on the part of submissives can lead to disasters where the Dom/me is not responsible (unrevealed medical conditions, for example). A good Dom/me will ask all the relevant questions and confirm their understanding of all the answers given.



I am 100% behind you on this one..... Great post and point....




adoracat -> RE: RED Flags (9/14/2007 7:32:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomN8USlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Safewords are damage control. They are called after the damage is done. And damage is not always possible to be seen by a TOP (not a D-type...as not everyone on THAT side of the toy is a D-type....and we're talking about playing here).



(See comment in red) Then that would make them a bad Dominant/Top/Master/Domme


not necessarily.

Sir is VERY attentive.  but he cant look at me and tell at a glance (or a stare) when i'm getting real close to being overstimulated and have to stop RIGHT then or risk going into a pseudo-seizure.  that's why he and i have a safeword, and why it is used.

kitten, respectfully.




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