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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The whole implication of the idea of submission being a gift is that the sub gives and the dom takes.

Only if you don't see domination as a gift as well. We give and take from each other.

As a fifty year old man, I hope the female I am dealing with is also an adult. This whole 'submisssion is a gift' thing, makes a woman sound to me like a  high maintenance stropy teenager. They appear to me to be women who want to be treated like a slut but only by that 'special' someone and by god, he'd better be thankful for what I'm giving him. They are really morally fucked up and in need of treatment as far as I can see. It's all so tiring, the moment a woman says 'the gift thing' I turn off. After one experience of a morally fucked up high maintenance woman who thought submission is a gift' and seeing similar traits she had in other women that believe such nonsense, no more.

The simple fact is if you meet someone the process is simple.

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ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

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ORIGINAL: breatheasone

(from what i've seen Bob has zero trouble speaking for himself)

I agree that Bobkgin does very well on his own... and again, I do apologize.   At the time I began this response, Bob had not yet replied to you and in my offering clarification, I had the opportunity to give some additional thoughts I had in that area.  Before I had completed my post I did notice Bob's reply, but didn't feel it necessary to remove my own comments as they might be beneficial to someone.

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I kind of think of it as a secret code... as a way to attract those dominants whose views are similar.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


Ya: don't pick anyone who tells you that you are "morally fucked up and in need of treatment " for believing who you are and what you do requires more courage than has the poor shmuck who tells you that you are "morally fucked up and in need of treatment ".

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ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I consider the entire "submission is a gift thing" nonsense.  As soon as I hear stuff about the "gift" my eyes start to roll and I almost drool.  I don't know why I have that reaction, I just find it to be a silly notion that people use, possibly in order to feel better about who they are at the core of their being.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


Ya: don't pick anyone who tells you that you are "morally fucked up and in need of treatment " for believing who you are and what you do requires more courage than has the poor shmuck who tells you that you are "morally fucked up and in need of treatment ".

Just think about it for a minute, if she thinks she is giving you something, that means she thinks you are taking something and no doubt she has her price which usually means a pound of flesh.

If you like to be on the leash of your sub, fine. I don't want to be on a leash thankyou very much, least of all a spoilt woman who seems to think being in a relationship with you is a gift from her rather than a two way street.

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"The personal life deeply lived, always expands into truths beyond itself" Anais Nin

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ORIGINAL: KatyLied

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"The personal life deeply lived, always expands into truths beyond itself" Anais Nin

Yep, and my personal truth happens to include living a life that is reality-based and does not include nonsense.  This works for me, just as well as a fantasy life works for others.  I'm cool with my decision.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Has anyone else noticed how strenuously those who reject "submission as a gift" try to deny its existence or validity.

Get the feeling their buttons have been pushed, and that their rejection has nothing to do with the concept but something to do with their psychological history?

With so many people saying "yes, submission as a gift works for me", why would "reality-based" people be claiming it is all "fantasy"?

Are they blind, or simply have an ulterior motive for denying its existence/validity for others?

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ORIGINAL: KatyLied

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"The personal life deeply lived, always expands into truths beyond itself" Anais Nin

Yep, and my personal truth happens to include living a life that is reality-based and does not include nonsense.  This works for me, just as well as a fantasy life works for others.  I'm cool with my decision.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Has anyone else noticed how strenuously those who reject "submission as a gift" try to deny its existence or validity.

Get the feeling their buttons have been pushed, and that their rejection has nothing to do with the concept but something to do with their psychological history?

With so many people saying "yes, submission as a gift works for me", why would "reality-based" people be claiming it is all "fantasy"?

Are they blind, or simply have an ulterior motive for denying its existence/validity for others?

I never denied its existence has a concept in some people's minds, in fact what I said acknowledges the reality of it for some people. I was just pointing the nonsense of someone saying something is a gift and then in not so many words saying that the person they are giving the gift to has to be worthy of it. Any well balanced person gives a gift without the expectation of anything in return.

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Don't expect me to believe that anyone offering me a gift and then saying I need to be worthy of it is actually giving me a gift, they aren't, they are offering me something for which they expect something in return. Hardly a gift. Just think the whole concept through. I repeat, if someone gave me a gift on those terms I would tell them where to stick their gift because it ain't one.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I thought a book token was the gift that kept on giving?

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

So when you give gifts to family, friends and loved ones (assuming you do that sort of thing), you give these gifts with absolutely no expectation that the relationship will continue?

You are giving these gifts for no reason whatsoever, not for what they've already given you in friendship, love, etc?

You routinely give gifts to strangers who have done nothing to prove themselves worthy of the gifts, not to friends and family and loved ones who have demonstrated repeatedly that they are worthy of a gift from you?

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


I see.

So a submissive who is selective about who she chooses to receive her gift is not actually giving a gift?

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
But a submissive who will give her gift to -anyone- without any expectations and without doing anything to determine whether the individual is trustworthy or not is the one whose gift you're willing to accept as a "gift"?

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The whole implication of the idea of submission being a gift is that the sub gives and the dom takes.

Only if you don't see domination as a gift as well. We give and take from each other.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

To no one in particular:

Has anyone else noticed how strenuously those who reject "submission as a gift" try to deny its existence or validity.

Get the feeling their buttons have been pushed, and that their rejection has nothing to do with the concept but something to do with their psychological history?

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


Ya: don't pick anyone who tells you that you are "morally fucked up and in need of treatment " for believing who you are and what you do requires more courage than has the poor shmuck who tells you that you are "morally fucked up and in need of treatment ".

When did this turn into a femdom thread?

Just think about it for a minute, if she thinks she is giving you something, that means she thinks you are taking something and no doubt she has her price which usually means a pound of flesh.

If you like to be on the leash of your sub, fine. I don't want to be on a leash thankyou very much, least of all a spoilt woman who seems to think being in a relationship with you is a gift from her rather than a two way street.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

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ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

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ORIGINAL: breatheasone

(from what i've seen Bob has zero trouble speaking for himself)

I agree that Bobkgin does very well on his own... and again, I do apologize.   At the time I began this response, Bob had not yet replied to you and in my offering clarification, I had the opportunity to give some additional thoughts I had in that area.  Before I had completed my post I did notice Bob's reply, but didn't feel it necessary to remove my own comments as they might be beneficial to someone.

Treasure, no need to apologize on my account. You were very eloquent.

Breathasone: if you truly believed that, you'd not have stepped in to say so now, just as you've not said anything when others have chosen to speak about what I've said in the past. I don't think anyone needs to be chastised for agreeing with me. YMMV.

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ORIGINAL: breatheasone

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

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ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

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ORIGINAL: breatheasone

(from what i've seen Bob has zero trouble speaking for himself)

I agree that Bobkgin does very well on his own... and again, I do apologize.   At the time I began this response, Bob had not yet replied to you and in my offering clarification, I had the opportunity to give some additional thoughts I had in that area.  Before I had completed my post I did notice Bob's reply, but didn't feel it necessary to remove my own comments as they might be beneficial to someone.

Treasure, no need to apologize on my account. You were very eloquent.

Breathasone: if you truly believed that, you'd not have stepped in to say so now, just as you've not said anything when others have chosen to speak about what I've said in the past. I don't think anyone needs to be chastised for agreeing with me. YMMV.

Hmmm.well Bob...i dont follow ALL of your posts #1
 

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...and CHASTISED??? are you serious?...you really are going to take the sentence "From what i've seen Bob has had zero trouble speaking for himself" as chastisement?? Hmmmm...thats unfortunate...because thats not how it  was intended.