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Making lousy first impressions - 6/25/2004 10:59:41 AM   
sarbonn


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline 		've been out of the scene for awhile. I'll admit that. I've mainly stuck to education as a fill-in for lack of relationship, but at the same time I've not really done much to pursue anything beyond that. Okay, I apologize; this is actually going somewhere....

About six years ago, I left a very vibrant community scene where I was extremely active in that scene. I knew a lot of people, I was involved in a lot of projects, and I was just relately known by everyone because it just seemed to be something that always worked out. Six years ago, I moved to southwestern Michigan, and after an initial failure with a few munch attempts, I felt the scene was kind of uninviting to new members, so I focused on my Ph.D. instead. That was six years ago.

I went to a munch a few weeks ago (probably about a month by now), and I found myself attempting to get involved in conversation, but I really felt the conversation was geared towards not really inviting new people into the conversation. It probably doesn't help one iota that I'm an extremely shy person, and about 15 years ago, I was probably not even someone who would have gone to a munch in the first place. But still I tried. Yet, I got the impression that trying just wasn't good enough.

I heard from an individual who claimed to see me at that munch, and I got the feeling that my lack of gregariousness set up a first impression that has completely eliminated any chance I have of ever connecting with anyone in this particular community. It came from someone I actually thought would be kind of cool to get to know as well, so I found myself facing a stand-offish individual because of what I can perceive to be a bad first impression.

I'm really not sure what to do here. I don't find the area I am at to be very conducive for a middle aged submissive guy to find a partner (for play or for long term seriousness), yet I find myself emerging from the completion of my Ph.D. wondering if there's anything out there that I should be perceiving now that the headaches of endless studying are pretty much over.

Still, I can't get over the idea that my first impression (that I made) has kind of stilted any chance I'll ever have to prove I'm the kind of person a woman might find appealing. I guess I was always fortunate in the past that I hooked up with the right people right off the start so that word of mouth kind of kept me going because I tend to believe it is REALLY hard for submissive men these days to prove that they are sincere because there are so many others muddying the waters that we end up being shot down before we even get into the "prove you're real" stage of relationships.

Anyway, just a rant from an old-timer who has been pretty much gone for a long time.

< Message edited by sarbonn -- 6/25/2004 11:03:08 AM >

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RE: Lousy first impressions - 6/25/2004 11:09:17 AM   
ScorpioMaster


Posts: 146
Joined: 3/30/2004
Status: offline 		sarbonn congraduation on getting your PHD. I would say about your first time back on among the comunity went well. You must understand first time at a munch does not make the whole thing. You need to get back on the bike you feel off and try again. You ahve isolate your self with your studies and to get in a social swing of things will take sometime. I went to my first munch and that out it sounded like for the first year because I had to get use to people. The munch I attend regulary has changed over the years. It is much more social for newbies. The problem with the first munch time it was gearing for clicks. Give your self a year before you call it quits or at least keep going. I can say that the Munches in my area have changed for the better and their are new ones forming all the time. One more thing could you be having a hard time for you are a different level because of your PHD just a thought. Good luck and do not let your first time dictate. Good luck ScorpioMaster

(in reply to sarbonn)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 6/25/2004 11:19:18 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		sarbonn,

Welcome to the boards. Having grown up about an hour and change north of Kalamazoo, I know -exactly- what you meant about the sense of alienation at the munches. I find that BDSM lifestylers in Michigan to be similar in nature to every other activity done in Michigan - if you didn't grow up knowing the person, then the person wasn't important enough to know in the first place. The only exceptions are when you have a very stiff drink in your hand.

My suggestion is that if you intend to remain where you are, geographically, the best way to become 'part of the group' is to find whatever messageboards/websites they maintain, and be as active as you can (without seeming like an HNG.) Most munches maintain a yahoo group of some sort, all you need to do is ask. Also, by going to the munch every week for two months, you increase your visibility - and go from being the 'new guy' to being 'one of the regulars.'

Again, from my experiences, it's -perfectly- normal to feel isolated - the munch I attended in Grand Rapids (they have one every week on Thursday if my mind hasn't failed me) was in a hotel bar, the group was an oddball mix at best, and after that one trip I decided those just weren't the sort of people I cared to invest my free time in, and ended up becoming a regular on this board for my interaction.

Also, you may wish to take a peek at bondage.com, which has an extremely large database of individuals to draw from, in addition to the personal ads on this site.

I don't know if this helps or not, but I do offer you my best wishes in your pursuits.

Stephan

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to sarbonn)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 6/25/2004 11:56:24 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

website: http://www.sarbonn.com/fetish.htm


Hi sarbonn, just want to say i enjoyed your website immensely and plan to return to it to read your articles.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 6/25/2004 12:32:00 PM   
sarbonn


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you. I just renewed the domain for it today. I'd been thinking for about a month whether or not to discontinue it because I seemed to be hosting a site where I knew a lot of people were reading it, but I never heard from anyone.

_____________________________

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day...
...teach a man to fish, he steals your fishing hole and then charges you for the fish.

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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 6/25/2004 1:47:42 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		sarbonn,

Why are you taking away her chance to reject you?

OK, that's a joke, but it is a serious joke. Why can't you let her reject you instead of deciding for her?

Old chess advice: sit on your hands. Wait a minute not that one.
(hmm. not Knight on rim is grim either. Where did I put that old aphorism? Ah yes...)

No one ever won by resigning.

If you strike out, you strike out; but let her throw the pitches, OK?

< Message edited by iwillserveu -- 6/25/2004 1:52:42 PM >

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 6/25/2004 2:18:29 PM   
sarbonn


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline 		I have followed it up. Kind of got ambiguous responses, so as I'm really not good at this sort of thing, really not sure what further to do these days.

_____________________________

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day...
...teach a man to fish, he steals your fishing hole and then charges you for the fish.

(in reply to iwillserveu)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 6/25/2004 2:25:15 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Don't just do something; stand there!

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to sarbonn)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 6/30/2004 4:12:08 PM   
Checkers


Posts: 29
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
Hi sarbonn,
I've gone to a couple of munches in my area and made a lousy impression as well. I actually enjoy socializing at parties, where one can mingle, check out the premises, critique the artwork, wander off, &cet. But events that take place in restaurants are harder for me.
My solution has been to try to use the web to connect more, and it has been, while perhaps not entirely successful in all matters, still incredibly useful. You express yourself well in writing, so I would think there's potential for you to get the ball rolling, internet style, as well.
Still, do you really feel that a simple lack of gregariousness has, as you say;
quote:


...completely eliminated any chance I have of ever connecting with anyone in this particular community.


-?
I think people are willing to look past the first impressions we make if they have the opportunity (that is, as long as we don't do something egregiously rude...), and if they aren't, then perhaps they're not all their cracked up to be , either.


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*****


Many gods, for many moods.

[link] http://geocities.com/jetpine99/ [/link]

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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 6/30/2004 6:09:43 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

No one ever won by resigning.


You will miss 100% of the shots you dont take. Wayne Gretsky.

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 7/1/2004 7:50:24 AM   
UrMan


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		Hello sarbonn,
I say go back again. Go to another munch. There eventually will be someone bored to death with the regs and will seek you out. I know this from experience, the good ole club has it divisions and there's where you can get in. There are groups within a group and then there are even smaller groups within that, and then there are the friends of these indiviguals that aren't even big players or regulars. So don't berate yourself, "Just get back into the game" you still got three more quarters to play, and a lot can happen after "half time".

(in reply to sarbonn)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 7/1/2004 10:32:58 AM   
dragonofjapan


Posts: 91
Joined: 6/30/2004
Status: offline 		Why not go back and get a PhD on "what impression did I make?"

The one thing you can change in life is what you bring to the relationship.

You are into behavior Modification, so go modify your behavior.

Set a limit. I assume it took you at least a few classes to finish your PhD. So why set a limit on your munches?

How about going to 10 munches, just for practice.

Goal is not to meet anyone or connect or feel like you are a part of the group. Just to go and act in different ways and notice how people reacted to you.

My father used to make me come into cocktail parties and meet the customers of our company.

When I was 5 he made a deal with me. He told me the first person I met who said, "get away. I don't want to talk to you" or any variation of this, I could stop and NEVER have to do this again.

I figured good deal, I'll be out of here in 2 minutes.

I was 35 when I finally met this asshole, smiled at him and turned and put out my hand to the next person.

I am shy. I am still shy. But I also know most people like people and want to connect to people. So they only thing I could change was what I did.

I stick out my hand

_____________________________

He who rules truly serves
She who serves truly rules

Life is not measured by the breaths we take,
but by the things which take our breath away

Honor is not making good choices,
it is dealing with the consequences.

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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 7/1/2004 1:59:01 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		"Sometimes, you can go forward by going backwards." I think Gino Cappeletti, Patriots radio annoucer, after Belichick called for the snap to sail over the punters head late in the game against Denver.

(He wanted to kick from the 20 not deep in the endzone. The Broncos were so confused by being given 2 points they had they went 3 and out and the Patriots scored a late TD [6 points]) to win.)

Of course if it works, you are a genius, and if it doesn't your an idiot. (And 99.999999999% of the time it doesn't work.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 7/1/2004 2:35:54 PM   
italianalala


Posts: 48
Joined: 6/10/2004
Status: offline 		Sarbonn:

I'm holding out my hand to you. On the 8th I am going to my first munch and am petrified. Have made more excuses than you have, am so tired of hearing them, and will not write them down, even though I am convinced they are totally rational.

Run on sentences are part of my makeup and why I should not go to the munch!

Intellectually I know I will meet human beings who suffer, who are glad to meet another person, who laugh, and who dribble food out of the side of their mouth, occasionally.

Sarbonn, let us know when you are going to your first munch. We'll hold your hand, and please, hold mine.

cheers, now what will I wear? What will I order for dinner? What if I don't like the ambience? What if............... Aghhhhhhhhhh

itty

(in reply to iwillserveu)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 7/1/2004 3:27:04 PM   
SilentDreamer


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/25/2004
Status: offline

Sarbonn,

I have been to the GR munch many timees, and my first visit there was much the same as yours. You would think an attractive female sub would get a warmer welcome? lol I have never made it to the K-Zoo munch, although many of the people from K-Zoo come to GR from time to time, so I have met many of them as well. The first munch I EVER attended was in CHI, and I got a very different sort of 'welcome', but it left me feeling even more nervous about ever returning. Every person I encountered there, male or female, tried to talk me into going off with them! Given the two options, I'd much prefer a "slow start" with people who are genuine rather than a frenetic ride with a bunch of swingers who happen to have lifestyle interests.

Please keep this in mind. The GR munch that is held in a hotel lounge is designed to welcome newcomers, however, we often get inudated with men who show up only because they have an idea that a submissive is an easy pick-up. Newcomers are noticed, and remembered. Sometimes they do get to feeling a little neglected, as many of the people who attend are old friends who don't get to "catch up" with each other as often as they'd like. Come back a time or two, you will see the difference.

Also, there is another munch in GR now that is geared towards people more experienced in the lifestyle. It is held upstairs in a gay bar downtown, and fetishwear is allowed. Yes it is open to the public, no invitation is required. It is more of a "club night" atmosphere than a traditional munch, but if you truly are an "old timer", you should feel very comfortable there as well. Many people go to both munches, as they are both held on Thursday night. If you are interested in attending, drop me a note and I'll be happy to give you the particulars.

Mr Voltaire is correct in saying it's an "odd mix" of people at the munch, there are professionals, laborers, homemakers, the educated as well as the barely literate. You will meet lifestylers who range the whole spectrum, from full-time Gorean families to part-time people looking for play partners only. The only thing that truly amazes me about that statement is that, given such a broad range of individuals, no one could meet his "standards". While I admit there are people who attend that I wouldn't find myself socializing with under other circumstances, I have always found intelligent, stimulating conversation and pleasant company at the local munches. I hope to meet you at one of them in the future.

Take care

(in reply to sarbonn)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 7/1/2004 4:41:10 PM   
sarbonn


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks. I appreciate the kind words. I'm not sure if I'm going to be attending any further munches for the time being as I've decided to pull back a bit and kind of go back into the closet for awhile. Today, I came to somewhat of a realization that I'm a bit too high-strung for the moment due to the fact that I've been going non-stop for about six years now. I found myself sitting on campus today just hanging out by the fountain, watching the water. This may sound strange, but this is the first time in nearly that entire six years that I've allowed myself a couple of hours of doing absolutely nothing. For some reason, my days have seen filled with always trying to do something during any lull in time. So this ended up being a really strange day. A young woman walked up to me while I was just sitting, doing absolutely nothing (not reading, not anything) and started talking to me. I actually felt a spark of interest, and to be honest, I think it's because I wasn't focusing on doing anything at that moment, if that makes any sense.

I may attend a munch in the future, but I don't know. I think the fact that I felt like I was being judged for being shy by those who weren't interested in talking to me because I was an outsider kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

I also believe I may be running through a change in my lifestyle intentions as well, as perhaps I may be becoming more of a switch than just a submissive. A previous owner used to try to push me this way, although I usually resisted (there's a thread in here somewhere on that situation). I don't really know how to explore this, and I'm not sure my local atmosphere is conducive to such an exploration to begin with. This local community appears to be stuck in a self-created rut, and I'm not sure how much I want to be trying to break into that rut. I will, however, admit that I've never been to Grand Rapids, so perhaps one day if I ever figure out where and when they meet, I might consider a trip up that way.

It's strange because I've lived most of my life as a sincere submissive, and I'm starting to come to the realization that I can probably give a woman what she wants by possibly coming from the other side.

Either way, it's been really nice weather on campus, and at least I'm taking advantage of it.

< Message edited by sarbonn -- 7/1/2004 4:42:58 PM >

_____________________________

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day...
...teach a man to fish, he steals your fishing hole and then charges you for the fish.

(in reply to SilentDreamer)
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RE: Making lousy first impressions - 7/1/2004 8:33:45 PM   
MistressKiss


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This is off the original subject but is still related to first impressions. Ya'll won't believe the dumbass thing I did tonight.....read on.....

My 23 year old son (yes, I look far too young to have a son that old - grins) takes me to dinner with his new girlfriend that he really, REALLY likes. So within the first few minutes of the conversation, I ask...where did ya'll meet? He said, I met her where she works. My stupid mouth said, "at the Lodge?" Now, the Lodge is a strip club where his LAST girlfriend worked. I do not know WHAT THE FUCK I was thinking when I blurted this out, but I was worried about THAT first impression. Fortunately, she laughed her head off and I was mortified and explained that I was really cutting my son down....NOT HER. But I realized, here is this girl my son really likes and I have just accused her of being a stripper. We have laughed about it all night, but what a DORKUS I feel like....

and I am usually so in control and sweet and demure in person....grinsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

_____________________________

"I assure you, Your Honor, I don't have to practice...I'm very good at them..."
(The Marquis de Sade at one of his trials for the sexual perversities he practiced)

(in reply to sarbonn)
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