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How are Doms born (long after the stork)?


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How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 2:35:06 PM   
sarbonn


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline 		Okay, I was trying to figure out where best to place this post, thinking perhaps Ask A Switch might work, but even there I wasn't sure it was completely appropriate. Let me explain by giving a bit of background.

Most people who know me, know that I have been a lifestyle submissive (whatever that means) most of my life. I have a strange ability to interact with women really well, and for that reason I believe is why almost ALL of my friends over the years have been submissive women. Dominant women have been friends as well, but for the most part, the plethora of my friends have been submissive women.

A couple of times, out of boredom more than anything else, I'll have had a girlfriend ("we're just friends") who gets the idea that I would make a great Dom. I doubt I would, but some of these friends have been EXTREMELY persistent about this. Only once did I explore it, and while she said it was a great time and wanted more, other events kind of split us apart (both of us moved to different locations right about the same time), so it never went any further than a few interesting experiments.

I've been to a lot of parties where I've run into self-proclaimed male doms who sometimes are actually really rude to me. I've taken it in stride over the years, but more often than not, I've noticed that because the submissive girlfriends I've had have usually gone to parties with me as someone to latch onto to avoid the horny wannabe doms, I end up being the brunt of hostility of some guy that sees me as an obstacle to getting to that "hot chick" linked in my arm who isn't interested in playing with him just because they both happen to be at the same location at the same time.

This has often got me to wonder: what makes a dom a dom? I've asked similar questions to some very well known dominants in the field, but I've tended to get somewhat airy responses from most of them, kind of like the "well, you know it when you are one" variation.

It was a recent telephone conversation (this morning actually) from a previous owner who was calling to see how I was doing on my side of the country (I keep in touch with a few of my former owners as friends these days) that I was talking a bit about this, and she made an interesting comment. First, a bit of history: she is a retired professional dominant who happens to be very well educated in both schooling and real life. She got her start in bdsm some years back when she was trained by a dominant boyfriend who eventually became her significant other. She was originally submissive to him, and after she learned pretty much everything she could as a submissive, she rebelled and essentially became a dominant over a period of a few years, pushing him aside.

The reason I mention this is she made kind of a throw-away remark to me along the lines of: "well, Duane, I trained you as well as he trained me. I never understood why you didn't become a dom yourself. It's part of why I let you go." This kind of left me with a really strange feeling because I've never considered becoming a dominant; just don't think it would suit me.

But I wonder if this is a process that doms go through, or if there's some other route most of the good ones (not the army of wannabes) go through.

Anyway, any thoughts? I know it's kind of a detailed post, but I'm starting to get to like the people who post here, so I thought I would ask.

_____________________________

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day...
...teach a man to fish, he steals your fishing hole and then charges you for the fish.
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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 2:55:24 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline 		Well, you know it when you are one.



Ok, obligatory smart-ass answer out of the way, I'll try to tell you, at least from my exprience how it happened to me:

According to all the etiquette books I could fnd, the third wedding anniversary is the "leather" aniversary. I guess most people give cow-hide covered couches or some such thing, but I went for a slave collar and a list of "rules" my wife had to follow whenever she put it on. In developing these rules, I did a bit of research, and discovered this wonderful world of BDSM.

I have tried to explain how this felt many times in the interviening years, and I never quite get it right. Here are some of the ways that come close:

It felt like discovering a part of me that had always been there, but hidden behind a curtain. It wasn't some big shock or surprise, more like...oh there you are.

It was like coming home after an extended vacation, that feeling of comfort and welcome. (This one doesn't really work, because every thing was so new...yet still felt comfortable.)

The funny thing was at first I kinda thought that although this was comfortable, it was wrong. And then I read John Warren's The Loving Dominant and I accepted myself for myself and realized that one could need to own another person, and yet still be a loving, compassionate and sensitive person.

For me, it was an instant click...I knew this was what I needed and although I spent years trying to deny it, it was such a part of me that burying made me unhealthy.

Hope that helps.

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to sarbonn)
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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 4:02:09 PM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		By now, on the boards here, my history (or at least this part of it), like Dread's, is pretty well known. I was actually raised in a lifestyle, polyamorous home. My dominant nature was recognized and nurtured early on by my Grandmother (who was also dominant).

I don't have a problem with the "wanna be's". I have a problem with the "claim to be's" that aren't. That's who I have a problem with. The information is out there, and there are people here, and on other sites that are willing to share information in forums just like this with those new and learning in the lifestyle. There is NO excuse for anyone to lie about their level of knowledge or experience.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 5:21:26 PM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Mine I believe is a pretty ordinary chain of events. I was raised in a male dominated household, my mothers' theory was every woman has to have a man to take care of you. So naturally I rebelled. I worked my way through a string of vanilla relationships, always uncomfortable with them. The main complaint from the vanilla males I saw was "you keep trying to lead, thats my job". I ended up at a local D/s event with a friend and found I didn't have to be involved in constant power struggles with men. I got a mentor (Domme), and took to the Dominant side like a duck to water. I have never tried the submissive side, it simply never appealed.

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~~~~~Enjoy the ride, the landing could get painful~~~~

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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 6:10:23 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

A couple of times, out of boredom more than anything else, I'll have had a girlfriend ("we're just friends") who gets the idea that I would make a great Dom. I doubt I would, but some of these friends have been EXTREMELY persistent about this.


From my perspective, being a Dominant is something you either are or you are not. Im not sure I agree with the statement that a person KNOWS they are Dominant or not. I suspect a lot of people are miserable in the lifestyle because they desperately want themselves to be X but are actually Y.

Topping (ordering dinner, tying up and beating, being in charge, etc) is something one can learn how to do, but this in and of itself does not make a person a Dominant, imho.

The usual my opinion/could be wrong caveats apply.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 6:18:03 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
From my perspective, being a Dominant is something you either are or you are not. Im not sure I agree with the statement that a person KNOWS they are Dominant or not. I suspect a lot of people are miserable in the lifestyle because they desperately want themselves to be X but are actually Y.


I think this is such an important statement. It is my thought that you are born dominant, and that through education (and a little luck) you become a good dominant. Yet I bet there are some that are born to it who never learn the real meaning of their desires. I know that when I tried to surpress my need to dominate it left me in a quite unhealthy place.

If you are really happy and healthy being a sub, you are probably a sub. If you are happy and healthy being a dom, you are probably a dom.

Great post, Sinergy!

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 6:24:27 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Great post, Sinergy!


Thank you very much!

Regards,

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 7:39:39 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Topping (ordering dinner


::laughing:: you know Sir, I never considered ordering dinner part of *topping*. I almost always order my own dinner. I also almost always *add* things when Master orders his. Little things, like when he says he wants a salad, I add *no onions*, or a loaded potato, I add *no chives*. He doesn't think about them when he's ordering them, but he doesn't want them. As my responsibility includes making his life as pleasant as possible, it is more logical to me to make sure he doesn't receive things he doesn't want and make things more pleasant for him....

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Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/26/2004 7:54:54 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

::laughing:: you know Sir, I never considered ordering dinner part of *topping*.


I posted elsewhere that I took a friend / potential submissive out for coffee to a sushi place a few weeks ago. She almost melted into a puddle when I gazed at her and said "how about I order for both of us."

And I did, and she was thrilled. Ordering dinner is an extremely Dominant act, imho.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to EStrict)
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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/27/2004 9:42:07 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

This has often got me to wonder: what makes a dom a dom? I've asked similar questions to some very well known dominants in the field, but I've tended to get somewhat airy responses from most of them, kind of like the "well, you know it when you are one" variation.


Midear Sarbonn-

For me, it was more a matter of being lucky enough to find women who were able to express that it was OK for me to do what I want to them- from my first High School girlfriend, who liked it when I held her down (she wiggled something awful<g>) and liked it even more when I tied her down,to the lovely ladies who have said things like 'harder', 'oh yes-MORE!' or the ever popular 'Please spank me?".

The other Dominant/Leadship/nurturing stuff just came along with it. I do always order for a date, and with a smoker (even if it's not a date, just speaking at a bar), will take her cigarette, light it for her, and place it in her mouth (this is, to me, Extremely dominant and sexy as hell, and even the most vanilla or dominant woman seems to find it utterly charming).

While I started off in the bedroom, as a dominant, my first exposure to the scene was as subordnate to a gay leatherman, who I served as more of a 'snapman'/ valet/ caddy while he mentored me and pimped me out as either top or bottom, as he saw fit. While I did get a certain satisfaction from serving well, it never fufilled me the way being on top does. I think that 'those who can , sub, those how can't, dom.".

I have also enjoyed your presence on the boards. Thank you for your thoughful and thought provoking contributions

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/27/2004 9:51:19 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I do always order for a date, and with a smoker (even if it's not a date, just speaking at a bar), will take her cigarette, light it for her, and place it in her mouth (this is, to me, Extremely dominant and sexy as hell, and even the most vanilla or dominant woman seems to find it utterly charming).


I find that interesting. I would think it would be the sub's job to light the ciggy for her Dom. But i have never been with a Dom who smokes. I would consider that a form of service.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/27/2004 10:11:21 AM   
sarbonn


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I have also enjoyed your presence on the boards. Thank you for your thoughful and thought provoking contributions


Thank you.

I guess one comment I have, and this actually isn't directed at the person to whom I just quoted, is that I find a number of responses being somewhat what I was mentioning in the first post. One of them exactly the problem I keep experiencing as I try to figure this out.

I think there is a mixture of misunderstanding when someone asks what causes someone to realize that one is a dominant. I've noticed a few responses (and a few emails as well) that have been along the lines of explaining how the person got into bdsm and how it has changed his or her life.

I guess to explain where I'm going with this is to question it as someone who has a lot of experience in the bdsm scene and community who is questioning whether or not he is actually on the right side of the chains. I understand what brings a lot of people into the scene (there are so many variations on this, and that's great, but it doesn't really fit what I guess I'm trying to figure out). For me, I'm curious at what point one starts to realize that one is a dominant if one has always been a submissive (or the opposite for that matter).

I often hear people say "I was born a dominant" or "I was born a submissive", to which the latter has often been said by me. But I know that many, many people switch characteristics at some point in their lives.

Perhaps the answers I'm seeking are more attuned to those involved as switches (as they would appear to be experiencing the juxtaposition more than those who have settled on one or the other side of the cage), but I get the feeling that even that area is not where I'd find the answers because my understanding of the many switches I have known over the years is that they are acclimated to switch as much as some people are acclimated to be dominant or submissive.

Anyway, I want to thank everyone so far for the excellent responses. They are very interesting to read and quite fascinating for further reflection.

_____________________________

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day...
...teach a man to fish, he steals your fishing hole and then charges you for the fish.

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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/27/2004 5:28:33 PM   
Camwyn


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		sarbonn,

I have been following this with interest (BTW, this is my first post here, and you folks have left a LOT of great reading up on this board) and your last post prompted me to reply.

I am relatively new to alternative lifestyles as a participant. I am Male, Dom, and Gorean (if that matters)

quote:

For me, I'm curious at what point one starts to realize that one is a dominant if one has always been a submissive (or the opposite for that matter).


About a year ago, my wife and I realized that there was definately SOMETHING WRONG...it boiled down to the fact that she was running the show, and neither of us was happy about it. I have always been an easy-going kinda guy and she has always been a real go-getter. So, in a sense, this is what you were looking for-someone who was submissive who 'became' dominant?

IMHO, switches is not quite where you should be looking for your answers, no. Mind you, I said I'm still relatively new to this, but I think you are on the right track when it comes to they're being 'acclimated' to being switches. As a poor comparison I see switching to be similar to being bisexual...interested enough in both to want one or the other (or both) at different times, not interested enough in either singly to commit wholeheartedly to one (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, don't get me wrong!) Or perhaps they are just an embodiment of the juxtaposition you spoke of...an embodiment of the power exchange in one person?

I can tell you how I felt when I realized I was on the wrong side of the power-struggle in our relationship, which is what it had become. In truth, it was my ivy that first realized what was going on...

Let's start with the cliches: I felt alive. It just felt right. THe sun came out and birds sang.

Really, it was more like the two of us fell into it (and to be honest, it was harder for me at first...but that involves way too much to go into now...) When I realized something was bothering me, I told her, told her how I wanted it, and it was a done deal. A huge weight was lifted off both our backs. My stress level dropped from the ceiling to the floor, as did hers. We didn't have to think about it, it just worked. My father is into Buddhism, and he talks a lot about going through life 'blamelessly' and that's how it felt. I knew I had to make the decisions, and for the first time, I had no problems deciding.

Was I 'born dom'? I don't know, as I am Gorean, as lot of my fellow Goreans would say yes, as a male I was, but society warped me...not sure if I buy into that (which may make me less Gorean...ah well...) but I know that I now feel as though I was born to hold this role. I never felt right being the submissive part of the relationship. But I felt that was where I belonged-at the time.

I think if you have tried it, and it didn't feel it fit, it may not be for you. But I don't want to reiterate what everyone else here said, as most of them have WAY more experience than I.

Camwyn

_____________________________

When faith is lost, when honor dies
The man is dead!
John Greenleaf Whittier: Ichabod.

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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/27/2004 7:13:28 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I find that interesting. I would think it would be the sub's job to light the ciggy for her Dom. But i have never been with a Dom who smokes. I would consider that a form of service.


I agree with you, proudsub, that doing things like that is a form of service, as is holding a door for women, carrying her purse while she tries something on, etc.

On the other hand, I have been told it makes women (have not done it with men, not my cup of tea) get all giddy and mushy and stuff to have men do those sorts of things for them.

It can be perceived as an act of submission, or as an act of Dominance. I Am Opening The Door So My pet Can Cross The Portal Safely And In My Care. Both of my submissives said it made them feel so cherished and safe when I would do such things.

I would suggest what is important is how it is perceived by both parties.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/27/2004 9:00:54 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		sarbonn

I was introduced to the lifestyle with a partner who wanted to explore d/s...we were boyfriend and girlfriend first, kink second...both being knew to the lifestyle we identified as being switches, so in the early days we decided to have a week each dominating the other....my time in charge worked a treat...I was a natural and it scared him. After this week of submission and a night where he went into a deep deep subspace, he freaked...it scared him that someone could have that much control over him and scared him how easily he went under. Physically I did sweet fa, it was more what I was saying to him, playing into this fantasies, taking him between reality and fantasy in an instant and back again. In a kneejerk reaction he asked if he could dominate me for the next six months. I agreed.

I loved submitting to him, but not out of any desire to be submissive...more to be loved wholeheartedly by a man I loved and adored...which the master/sub relationship allowed for...the boundaries of the d/s allowed for a safe and secure format for us to express our feelings for each other...and ultimately ended up in him collaring me.

My desire to be the perfect submissive for him clouded what I needed to see most...his desire to not be in control...despite all the pomp and d/s ceremony, at heart he wasnt ready to be a fulltime Master, and knew he was letting me down and began to feel himself as being a failure, as both a Master and boyfriend.

Eventually we split and I looked long and hard at this d/s stuff I was interested in and found in reality I had no interest in being a submissive...there was no inherent desire there and as I am someone who likes to be incontrol of the things nearest and dearest to me..and I like what I can do for others when they are in my care.

I often wonder if the relationship would have survived had I taken a friends advice and turned tables on him and done the dom thing...but like him, at that time of my life I wasnt equipped to do that either...so we said cie la vie and moved on.

Years later I am glad of the wake up call being so early in my d/s exploration, sexually I still adore being topped by a significant someone, but I would never submit beyond the bedroom. I know I am dominant and that where my calling lies.

Generally speaking, I think people do and can evolve long into their d/s lifestyle...we often talk about submission being empowering etc... and I often wonder what happens to all that empowering? Some people need to utilise it and will take a step to the left and explore their dominant side... some will get empowered from being the dominant and take step to the right and submit knowing there is no weakness in submission...and some will just stay one way or the other.

One thing I will ask you to consider is to think carefully...are you entertaining the idea of dominance because you desire the idea of dominance or are you entertaining the idea of dominance because people you respect and trust suggest you are one?

Jasmyn




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RE: How are Doms born (long after the stork)? - 6/29/2004 9:35:48 AM   
Checkers


Posts: 29
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
Hi sarbonn,
Even though you seem to have some nice topping skills, I don't understand why your ex-Domme seems to assume that you would therefore switch from being sub to being Dominant one day.
I admire people who do that, the experience of subbing seems like it would be valuable for a Dom/me, and I know there are others we haven't heard from on this site who have switched like that.
I was never a sub myself, but I do consider myself a Dom now, though I didn't always think of myself that way. I don't know how much is natural and how much is acquired. I do know that this works best for me, though - it gives me the most artistic, intellectual and personal (which kind of includes sexual) freedom. I don't think that the actual "turning point" when one realizes that they are dominant might be the same from person to person. For some it might be a creeping realization, for others, a blinding revelation.
Perhaps there are as many Domming styles, and types of Dom/mes, as there are Eskimo words for snowball.


_____________________________

*****


Many gods, for many moods.

[link] http://geocities.com/jetpine99/ [/link]

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