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RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/21/2007 7:47:39 PM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline

Thanks for starting this thread. I haven't read every post (yet), but your point is well taken. Communication is never an exact science. There are so many subtlties to language, and myriad contexts in which we frame our words. Even body language and voice inflection aren't always "heard" in the way the speaker intended. Then there are all those individual filters and paradigms each of us lugs around in life...sigh.

What we have in your example is cultural context between two very different cultures complicating communication. I can also see where this specific issue would bother you - understandably so. There are times when I've thought to use terminology other than "doormat" when talking to other kinksters, but also plenty of times that I haven't. Much of that had to do with the individual conversations and who they were with, but I'll certainly concede that there has undoubtedly been some lack of awareness as well. I'm going to make a real effort to be more aware of such things in my communication.

If I had a nickle for every time I watched and listened while two people went at it, and later one felt they had been eviscerated, while the other considered it to have merely a spirited debate, I'd be very wealthy. Ditto the times I've heard something quite offensive, only to find the other people standing there, hearing the same thing, had no clue why I was upset. Same goes for when I've given offense, hurting someone with words or gesture, when that had absolutely been the farthest thing from my intent. I'm sure every last one of us has seen someone be all sweetness in choice of words, but the intent was obviously quite the opposite, or run into people who come across terribly harsh, hard, and hurtful, who honestly didn't mean their words and actions to come across that way. All of this is why I strive to live by a policy of "take it in the spirit in which it was intended".

Thanks again for raising this topic for discussion.

-grace

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 41

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/21/2007 7:55:18 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

Eh.

Doesn't upset me. I just disagree with ya. Why say "I don't want be stepped all over, ignored, treated like shit, taken advantage of, etc" when the term "doormat" so readily encompasses all of that? I don't favor excessive descriptions; I never have been a fan of Hawthorne.

Sure, being treated like a doormat is a kink. But it's not mine and just as a person who wants to be stepped all over, ignored, treated like shit and taken advantage of gets to shorten that to "I want to be a doormat", I get to say that I don't want to be.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 42

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/21/2007 8:57:59 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

Because stereotypes are shorthand for stupidity.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 43

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/21/2007 9:39:39 PM

texasswitch81

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/14/2007
Status: offline

i can not understand how a human being can treat another human being like a door mat. The only exception i can think of is if she or he wants it. Moverover, people who treat people like doormats simple do not have their sub feelings at interest

(in reply to natureschild)

Post #: 44

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/21/2007 11:34:52 PM

kirby104

Posts: 94
Joined: 6/6/2005
Status: offline

As if we all can be so eloquent.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 45

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 3:49:40 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Well considering it is a turn of phrase i have been hearing and speaking for almost 34 years in the vanilla world i dont think i should find another word at all.
It is not laziness that makes me use this phrase it is the association of the word meaning a pushover, easily walked over.
Just because there are kinksters who enjoy this as an activity does not give the right for the word to solely refer to this.

Yep.

Sorry Boi, but it is not laziness to use a well-understood term in a well-understood way.

It is called "communication".

Seems you are arguing that those "who don't take the time to actually express their feelings beyond one word" should be allowed the "laziness" of using the term "doormat".

You just disagree over who should get the option to be lazy.

Given the widespread use of the word "doormat" as a metaphor, good luck with that.

But I won't be changing my usage, and I doubt many others will either.

Living doormats will just have to find some other catchy label (like "object", as in "objectification").

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 46

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 5:09:18 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: natureschild

Being a doormat makes me think of "being treated like dirt, being worthless."

lol...if you think about it, the dirt is worthless. We wipe that crap off our feet when we enter a house. On the other hand, the mat has function. It has purpose. While a refrigerator will never and could never be a doormat, it doesn't change the importance of the doormat whatsoever.

Personally, if I'm going to be a doormat, I want to be one of those with the flowers on it that are both pretty and functional and always seem to be part of the welcoming atmosphere of someone's home. I'd never be able to be one of those with the sad joke on it. I also like longevity. I would hate to be one of those that get changed out with other doormats depending on what season or holiday of the year it is.

juliet

(in reply to natureschild)

Post #: 47

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 5:16:42 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

i am terribly upset with you Jen, now go to my room

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 48

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 5:46:38 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Being a person who likes to be used as a doormat in the literal sense, it just feels like putting a negative spin on something I actually do. Cuz it's my kink...I know I'm not the only one. Just speaking from how I feel. And it's really hard to get people to understand that being a doormat for me is a great and positive thing. There's nothing more exciting to me in a single act than to be under Her feet and being used in a manner that services Her shoes (She has a shoe fetish.) And my point here is that the constant use of the term doormat in a negative manner means I have to constantly justify a positive use of the term. I understand old habits die hard and all...but in a community where we preach about communicating acurately and as best as we can why would anyone chance mixing up the meaning behind this one word?

OK, and good luck with getting a lot of people to inconvenience themselves by abandoning the commonly understood usage of the word, for your special one...

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 49

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 6:38:49 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

Personally -

I find anyone using the shorthand of commonality to be boorish and often without merit in the area of intelligence.

I have been about on computers since around 1984 (Al Gore and i got the internet going) and there are trends in common statments and colloquial terminology which develop in short time (probably 2 months) which sweep the internet via the posting boards on a regular basis.

Like most people I find them interesting and fascinating for the first few times I 'hear' them - then they are just pablumnatic regurgitation of often repeated mantra which have the same meaning and often identify the "speaker" as someone who is trying to ingratiate themselves with the target audience by posting a "ME TOO!" post to readily (rightly or wrongly) identify themselves as part of the culture/group.

Itis also used as (and, I believe this is what you are 'pinging on') a literal (albeit without 'literary merit') shorthand basis of expression which becomes mundane and cliche in a very short time which none-the-less WILL NOT DIE! (Until you start to wish the writer ill and death)...

But, the fact is - you are not going to stop the majority of people from using it - as it is within the computer culture at this point - and, new people will find it fascinating and use it for their "two months" until they too come to the realization that it is 'overused'.

As far as being PC, policing the web, and not using it/deriding people for using it in an effort to 'not insult people who are into crushing/trampling, et al --> (insert laughter here).

"Badges - we don't need no stinking badges!!"

I am not a perverted SOB so people can tell me to 'not hurt other people's feelings'... anyone who does feel insulted or derided for such a silly thing should really get a grip on the reallity of 'who we are' and WIITWallD... as we are supposedly an anathema by societal norms and therefore {allegedly} 'do not crave the structure' which would support such a movement of empathetic cultural angst.

But, that is just me.

~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 50

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 7:53:00 AM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Personally -

I find anyone using the shorthand of commonality to be boorish and often without merit in the area of intelligence.

I have been about on computers since around 1984 (Al Gore and i got the internet going) and there are trends in common statments and colloquial terminology which develop in short time (probably 2 months) which sweep the internet via the posting boards on a regular basis.

Like most people I find them interesting and fascinating for the first few times I 'hear' them - then they are just pablumnatic regurgitation of often repeated mantra which have the same meaning and often identify the "speaker" as someone who is trying to ingratiate themselves with the target audience by posting a "ME TOO!" post to readily (rightly or wrongly) identify themselves as part of the culture/group.

Itis also used as (and, I believe this is what you are 'pinging on') a literal (albeit without 'literary merit') shorthand basis of expression which becomes mundane and cliche in a very short time which none-the-less WILL NOT DIE! (Until you start to wish the writer ill and death)...

But, the fact is - you are not going to stop the majority of people from using it - as it is within the computer culture at this point - and, new people will find it fascinating and use it for their "two months" until they too come to the realization that it is 'overused'.

As far as being PC, policing the web, and not using it/deriding people for using it in an effort to 'not insult people who are into crushing/trampling, et al --> (insert laughter here).

"Badges - we don't need no stinking badges!!"

I am not a perverted SOB so people can tell me to 'not hurt other people's feelings'... anyone who does feel insulted or derided for such a silly thing should really get a grip on the reallity of 'who we are' and WIITWallD... as we are supposedly an anathema by societal norms and therefore {allegedly} 'do not crave the structure' which would support such a movement of empathetic cultural angst.

But, that is just me.

~J

The point is the phrase we are discussing is not "within computer culture". It is a term I grew up with. I remember hearing parents say to children at school "Don't be a doormat all your life" when they did not stand up to the school bully. It is a common term and nothing to do with the advent of the internet. My mother uses the term and she is in her 70's and has never used the internet.

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 51

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 8:10:54 AM

UR2Badored

Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

My reply is within this forums/computer culture use of the word. Unlike Susie above, the word doormat , though understood and used, does not come up in my everyday conversations with people in general. At least in not a discussion sort of way.
On a previous id a few years back, I had this on my profile:

"Although, I have been told that I characterics slave, I do not recall having any tattoos especially one that says "welcome" on my tush--With all due respect, I am no doormat.
On second thought if doormat means to You, my lying outside of Your front door in the nude cleaning boots, i may consider it. Aw heck, where can i sign up?" So yes, I have considered this concept given by the OP. However, I , like many others have pointed out, do think doormat is a universal term. As far the CM boards, we all will never agree on all PC (political correct) terms. If so, these boards would not be so amusing. I am guilty of using that word quite frequently on here. I doubt anyone would appreciate my definition and the universally accepted definition of a doormat each and every time I used the term.

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/22/2007 8:21:20 AM >

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 52

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 8:18:02 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

My point is that the phrase has been usurped by 'submissives' and dominants' within the BDSM sub-culture to denote a behavior mostly cons on the part of dominants (for the most part) in their treatment of submissives -and- has become colloquial within that context.

I was not developing an etymology (I realize the usage outside of BDSM) - simply commenting on common usage as used within our communities and as the original poster referenced it.

And, I am not referring to "computer culture".

At one point we (people involved in the assorted perversions known by some as a "lifestyle") would deride computer savy people who aspired to inclusion in the community for their frequent and telling use of computer colloquials...

Over the years, as this has become the chief means of communication for people within BDSM that negative connotation cannot be considered vaild in any way anymore.

So - I do appreciate what you are saying... but, neener neener.

~J
Who aspires to a higher maturity level - but, has too much fun not having one at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

The point is the phrase we are discussing is not "within computer culture". It is a term I grew up with. I remember hearing parents say to children at school "Don't be a doormat all your life" when they did not stand up to the school bully. It is a common term and nothing to do with the advent of the internet. My mother uses the term and she is in her 70's and has never used the internet.

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 53

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 8:23:25 AM

lonlyrossInNeed

Posts: 3144
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

I think that trampling is the term that should be used and DoorMat well When i use that is only when i have something to say like i do not want or seek a Mistress who things she can use me as a Doormat and nothing more or a Doormat that she can use and throw out i think that its better to use trampling or something like that

_____________________________

To know what pain is hurts the most
pain is not just a wound in your flesh
pain is a dagger in your heart

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 54

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 8:24:48 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

I'm still trying to puzzle out why someone thinks they can upset me.

That's my perogative.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to lonlyrossInNeed)

Post #: 55

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 8:27:13 AM

UR2Badored

Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I'm still trying to puzzle out why someone thinks they can upset me.

That's my perogative.

You didnt get the memo?

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 56

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 9:03:43 AM

BoiJen

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

"gayly forward" was introduced to me just over a year ago...I laughed. It aint about being PC it's about using your words to acurately describe something. Doormat is not an acurate description within this communicty. BTW dirt has value...plants grow in it...cleaning the air yadda yadda....and so on

(in reply to UR2Badored)

Post #: 57

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 9:12:38 AM

UR2Badored

Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Doormat is not an acurate description within this communicty.

and folks 'dat be the end all

Regardless if this was an actual response to me or not.

My apologies, I didnt get that memo about doormat not being an accurate description in this lifestyle or that I am not to use in doormat any reasonable context. Doesn't your statement imply that it is not PC? Nevermind, please dont answer. Smiling condescendly and conceeding that my entire opinion and the fact that I'd explained what my thoughts were in context to is absolutely irrelevent on this thread. You are obviously the authority on everything.....continue on, Admiral!

You are so cute.

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/22/2007 9:54:30 AM >

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 58

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 9:21:19 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

"gayly forward" was introduced to me just over a year ago...I laughed. It aint about being PC it's about using your words to acurately describe something. Doormat is not an acurate description within this communicty. BTW dirt has value...plants grow in it...cleaning the air yadda yadda....and so on

We disagree. Fortunately, neither of us are in a position to render the other's opinion invalid.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 59

RE: Yes this is likely to upset you - 9/22/2007 9:25:50 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

You mean you haven't come across the word gay being used with its original meaning? That absolutely floors (not in a doormat floor kind of way) me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

"gayly forward" was introduced to me just over a year ago...I laughed. It aint about being PC it's about using your words to acurately describe something. Doormat is not an acurate description within this communicty. BTW dirt has value...plants grow in it...cleaning the air yadda yadda....and so on

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 60

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