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Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/20/2005 10:41:52 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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Was talking on YM to a lil one the other day about sub-space and the conversation turned to Dom-Space. Now I’ve heard of some horrific stories about Doms who have become so engrossed in what they are doing that they had virtually (in most cases) lost control. They had no idea how far they had pushed their charge nor were they aware if she/he had used a safe word or not. In some cases the Doms have entered into what I’ll refer to as Dom-Rage, where they are so wrapped up in, for example, a flogging, that the site of blood was driving them into a frenzy with no concept of the real damage they were doing.

I’d like comments from both Dominants and sub/slaves on this please.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 8/6/2005 11:10:53 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

Post #: 1

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/20/2005 10:54:01 AM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
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I can't relate to this on a personal level.

I'm too busy having fun and enjoying the reactions to go nuts. I'm not looking for blood-one would have to physically attack me and cause some pretty severe pain to invoke my berserk response. I'll always tend to err on the side of caution and push LESS until I really know a bottom well.

And if she later begs nicely enough-I'll pull out the stops. But I guess that my passionate response is too reptilian in nature to get out of control in the way you describe. After all,I am always looking at my meat and thinking just one thing. MINE.

The last thing I'm going to do is risk losing it by being a twit..

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 2

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/20/2005 10:57:08 AM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
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Sounds like the person is an abuser instead of a Dom. It's okay to get mad, it's okay to punish, and it's okay to yell. But all of it is controlled. If it's all out of anger and frustration, then you loose the concept of being a dom. After all, how can you be a Dom if you can't dominate yourself? If you can't focus on your subs body motions and sounds and learn there meanings, then something is wrong. During a scene or session, if a sub isn't responding to something that's either painful or irritating, then that's a big hint that it's to stop regardless of where you are at and begin the after care. Just as I train my sub to know what certain jesters, stares, and such about me mean, I expect to learn what each jeaster, moan, sigh, and such means as well.

< Message edited by FangsNfeet -- 7/20/2005 11:00:05 AM >

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I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 3

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/20/2005 7:08:01 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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A friend of mine, a Gorean Master and one who is very involved with BDSM as well made the comment that the so called Dom isn't a Dom but an idiot who has no commonsence at all.

The problem is that they are there and their attitude may rub off on new Doms, especially if the so called Dom either thinks that his or her actions are ok , or dont realise the damage they potentially are unaware of the problem (Especially the ones who loose the plot and haven't gone too far. I.E. they loose a sence of awareness and dont see when their lil one has had enough). Part of the problem as I see it, is that if the lil one is in deep sub space, he or she may not be in a position to give the safe word.

There are two ways I can see of preventing this, if it is a lack of awareness due to whatever. perhaps the best way is good education which may also lead to having good mentors if they are available. the second way I can think of at the moment, is to have a third party monitor your play untill you have sufficient experience. Y'see, I have an idea that at least some of the problem Doms are rather new and realy don't have sufficient experience to know what to look for. I can tell you that if I want to try something new, I'd rather have a mentor watching and if things go ok, debriefing me on better techniques etc etc.... I guess you know what I'm driving at.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 4

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/20/2005 7:49:18 PM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
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There is no exucse for that behavior, in my opinion. If you don't have the ability to control your own mental state, then you have no place dominating someone else.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 5

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/20/2005 10:04:15 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
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The Lady is right Iron Bear.

As for a newbie who is that naive to belive everything that he/she hears, well that's what DM's are for at the public scene. And perhaps just dosen't need to be getting into anything. After all, it only takes a little common sense to know when something is wrong and becoming life threatening. Besides, it never hurts to ask for consent before you do something. That way, the two of you consider the pros and cons of doing something new.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 6

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/20/2005 11:39:51 PM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
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RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy ...

Please can you edit the title to read 'Dom Rage/Frenzy'.

Dom space as the parrallel to a sub's subspace does not hold elements of rage or uncontrolled frenzy. I'd hate for people to begin equating 'dom space' with loss of control, rage etc.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 7

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/21/2005 5:42:04 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

The Lady is right Iron Bear.

As for a newbie who is that naive to belive everything that he/she hears, well that's what DM's are for at the public scene. And perhaps just dosen't need to be getting into anything. After all, it only takes a little common sense to know when something is wrong and becoming life threatening. Besides, it never hurts to ask for consent before you do something. That way, the two of you consider the pros and cons of doing something new.

I couldn't agree more Fangs. Whilst I may lack some practical experience in the scene, I had been hearing about such things even as a simple Gorean Master (No sarcasm intended I'm just bloody tired and am still on my feet after 18 hours.. ahh well bed soon enough). However as a Counsellor who does deal with people in the lifestyle amongst other things I am more in mind to try to find out why such mistakes happen. In many ways this is one of the best ways I've found to help others. Personally I am a great believer in mentors and I prefer to have an experienced with good credentuals to adcvise and preferasbly supervise me with new areas of which I am unfamiliar. I guess this comes from both a psych and a military background with a goodly amount of common sence.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 8

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/25/2005 2:42:38 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

Sounds to me like someone was making this stuff up online...

I tend to be a heavy sadist, but the heavier I go, the more deliberate I am with my strokes. And yes, with signal whips or with canes, or a scalpel or needles, there will be blood. That's even more reason to go slowly.....to watch the life force and respect it and it's bearer.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 9

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/25/2005 9:37:14 AM

arryshanna

Posts: 13
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline

Many years ago I was almost beat to death by a Dom who went out of control.
He made sure that I was alive afterwards and took care of me including taking me to a doctor friend of his who made daily visits,
It is never acceptable to loose control with a sub/slave, I was not in a condition to release myself from the bonds that i was in and he went over the line,

It took many many years to trust again.

Happy to say that I am owned by a Dominant who knows me well and sees my protection as paramount to the experience (for us both).

_____________________________

Love is always the answer, and frequently the question.
Approved by the Owner/Master of Arryshanna-Faibir

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 10

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 7/29/2005 11:39:18 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

All I can say is that it is possible to lose yourself in a scene, to reach that point in a scene where you stop simply channeling the divine and begin to believe you are divine. Altered states are not only available to bottoms, I've tip toed along the edge of Dom Space before myself, but Dom space is not something you can just let yourself go completely into. If you let yourself get into it too deeply it can end up in bad results.

I would not liken it to a rage at all, when I hit Dom space I am not angry at all I feel in total control of everything and everyone within my little area. However control is sometimes an illussion hyper sensitivity to sights and sounds are great at first but go too far and you may miss something and in a state of mind where "I DON'T MAKE MISTAKES" You sooner or later will find youself in a bad situation.

Not everyone gets the same kind of Dom Space I wouold imagine that it usually is a maginified feeling of whatever place within them motivates them. For me that is control and I get the feeling of controlling more and more space. Right after a good scene for me I am really drunk on the power and if I am not carefull I will offend someone very easily.
Afterall at that moment in my mind I own the whole flippin world including you. So I have to remind myself that I am drunk on power and that acting on the feeling would bring about something really ugly in many cases.

For those that have gone too far in a scene drunk on power and feeling perfect in every way, I can onyl say that they lose sight of their own human falability and that is always a recipee for disater, Just Ask Iccariss (SP) about feeling too overjoyed and full of yourself.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 11

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 8/2/2005 5:03:13 AM

anopheles

Posts: 241
Joined: 6/23/2005
Status: offline

Another reason for submissives to carefully choose to whom they will submit to. Particularly in the early goings, I am a firm believer that rigid boundaries should be set so that all involved parties can be comfortable in where they are going when as they move deeper and deeper into a particular scene. For example, if you're playing with someone for the first time that you aren't really familiar with, perhaps you'll ask that no bonds be applied to your hands, so that if the Dom, whether it be intentional or unintentional, should lose control, you have some way to protect yourself, or heaven forbid, get loose and defend yourself. Or maybe you could have a lifestyle-friendly person with you as you play the first few times, maybe in another room, and no gags and locks on doors, so if you need help, you have someone there. These measures I believe can make the experience more pleasurable for a submissive that is new with her Dominant, because the "worry factor" isn't as strong. As your relationship progresses, then you can move onto more challenging scenes with fewer boundaries. This keeps it rational, safe and stimulating, because you have a bigger challenge to look forward to..

Another thing for Dominants to remember is that your charge is ultimately in your care. They rely on you for guidance through their experience, and also rely on you for protection. If you allow yourself to slip too deeply and lose control and harm someone, you will probably feel those effects as much as they will, on an emotional level. It can be just as devastating for you to allow that to happen, as a Dom, as it is for your submissive.

_______________________________
Never Without Luvdragon

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 12

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 8/6/2005 2:08:10 PM

MasterTemujin

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/2/2005
Status: offline

One that loses control is a player hiding behind the guise of bdsm. Just trying to emulate something that they heard about or read in some novel.

R/S,

Master Temujin

(in reply to anopheles)

Post #: 13

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 8/6/2005 11:10:02 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

In fact no, I have a number of files of Counselling Clients of mine who have been subjected to an out of control Dominant. I also hear the same stories from counselling colleagues over seas as well as several psychologists with whom I have a professional association. However your comment

quote:

but the heavier I go, the more deliberate I am with my strokes

, is something I follow as well.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MasterTemujin)

Post #: 14

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 8/6/2005 11:13:00 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy ...

Please can you edit the title to read 'Dom Rage/Frenzy'.

Dom space as the parrallel to a sub's subspace does not hold elements of rage or uncontrolled frenzy. I'd hate for people to begin equating 'dom space' with loss of control, rage etc.

Finally...... Done

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 15

RE: Dom-Space ~ Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 8/7/2005 11:21:06 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Well, this is going to sound like a cliche, but a dom can't ever lose control. Subs have that luxury; doms don't.

Of course, doms aren't perfect. They're human like anyone else. But if they lose control, it has to be when they're alone or when they can't hurt anyone.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 16

RE: Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 8/7/2005 11:55:09 AM

Fidelity

Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
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My only question would be,if a Dom loses control to that extent ,are they?

Or simply suffering from mental illness?

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 17

RE: Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 8/8/2005 5:17:03 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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Perhaps the question really is, "Are they Doms or not?" This will depend upon the definition of a Dom. If you chose a defination which states that a Dom never loses control, then of course the perpetrators of suich brutality are not Doms. The "Doninants" to which I refer in this thread are either people who have been given all the wrong teaching and models to follow (perhaps 1% of those I allude to may be in this catagory), whilst the rest are using the guise of BDSM Dominants to get their rock off and indulging in fantacy without any care of the resultant dammage done to their victims. I've seen the same excuses used for convicted rapists as used for some of these people. To be honest, there just are some people who should be put down as rabid animals. But of course that is just a personal observation.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Fidelity)

Post #: 18

RE: Dom-Rage/Frenzy - 8/9/2005 3:26:22 PM

HalloweenWhite

Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
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You have a responsibility to stay in total control. If you dont then any number of accidents can happen,not all of them you may be able to take care of yourself, or live with in the future. A Dom/Domme who loses contol to the extent to talk about is a danger to the sub/slave and isnt one you should play with twice.

BDSM can be dangerous enough with nut-jobs on ego-trips adding to then. And anyway,if you lose control where is the respect for the sub/slave as a human being and for their health/safety.

HalloweenWhite.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 19

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