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Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 5:32:43 PM

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I have had the worse luck in my search for play partners. The second they hear the word poly or that I have a sub, they run at speeds that would make the Roadrunner envious. And thats without them even finding out what or how that relates to our relation (mine and the prospective subs)

I hear things like..

I am not bi (never said you had to be)

If I am not primary I am not interested. (I kind of like to think of my play partners as equals, but they dont wait to find that out)

I dont want to be part of a stable (never said I was starting one)

I dont want to deal with jelousy issues (understandable, but who said there would be any?)

and dozens more......

I have read ethical slut. I consider myself to be one. You know walk the walk, talk the talk, but I never seem to get past the word poly.
Sure I could not tell them, play for awhile and let the cat out of the bag later, but that seems more than a bit dishonest and I work very hard to not go there (dishonesty that is).

So help me out folks looking advice but also to understand why certain subs feel this way. I am not new to the bdsm lifestyle, and have had a few good poly relations ( and I would like to think my partners would agree with me). Just seem the majority of subs run at the word poly

Thoughts?

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 7:04:48 PM

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seems I posed the same question several days ago...though the answers were as varied as the question was meant to get a wide range of responses...bottom line is I'm still as fall from a fulfilling answer as I was when the question was asked...

Fury

(in reply to blackwolf99)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 7:49:33 PM

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Hi, blackwolf

I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in since I'm always interested in seeing how other people make poly work. I personally think that the reason that so many are turned off by the mention of poly is because either 1. they don't understand the principles behind it, and/or 2. they've come across posers - people who claim they are 'poly' but really using it as a mask for securing a steady supply of play partners and basically just f--king around.

I would suggest maybe a proactive approach to Poly education. Not sure who makes contact first (you or the subs), but in your correspondence, if you think poly might be an issue, include a link or two to sites or pages that embody your model and beliefs on poly. That way you'll be educating and informing and possibly enlightening. You'll also be demonstrating that you are sincere and have a clue about what poly means (for you). When I checked out your profile, I noticed that poly isn't mentioned anywhere. Since we're not allowed to include hyperlinks, that's maybe for the best. Trust me, we all appreciate honesty. Don't compromise that and you will find exactly who you're looking for.

< Message edited by luvdragonx -- 7/22/2005 7:56:32 PM >

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RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 8:24:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blackwolf99 The second they hear the word poly or that I have a sub, they run at speeds that would make the Roadrunner envious. And thats without them even finding out what or how that relates to our relation

Because it's easier to make hard decisions based on limited assumptions than to actually open their minds to something different from what their masturbation fantasy contains.

Yeah, I've heard all of those excuses, too. Many are absolutely stunned that sexual pairings in my family will not be dictated. They are often stunned by the concept of polyamory or polyfidelity (an expanded, but sexually fidelitous family.) They spout off all of their excuses, and I shoot them down categorically. Even though they still run, I have a tiny bit of satisfaction in knowing that I had the opportunity to open that door for even a split second. Some of them come back years later and want to learn more.

We keep trying to figure out what is so abhorrent about offering a person the comfort and stability of a stable, affectionate and happy home. Not a lot of single pseudo-monogamous individuals can offer such a thing. By seeing a long-term poly family in action, they have evidence that we can and will communicate openly and have the ability to get through a lot of the bumps that take others down.

We'll keep searching. I'll keep looking. I have no answers other than patience and education.
Good luck.

(in reply to blackwolf99)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 8:35:10 PM

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quote:

I have had the worse luck in my search for play partners. The second they hear the word poly or that I have a sub, they run at speeds that would make the Roadrunner envious. And thats without them even finding out what or how that relates to our relation (mine and the prospective subs)

I think one of the greatest things collarme has done was add that button on the profiles that says "view forum posts"! I think that there are a lot of people that come to collarme strictly for the ads and by adding that button gives them the chance to learn far more about an ad and the person posting then any profile information ever could. Of course I also believe that those that take the time to read the forums are the same ones that are truly looking to learn and become involved in a real time relationship..

My advice... for what it's worth... be happy they ran because worst case scenerio... they could have stuck around and made both you and you current girl absolutely miserable because of their mindset..... just MHO.

Jewel

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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 8:37:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow

quote:

ORIGINAL: blackwolf99 The second they hear the word poly or that I have a sub, they run at speeds that would make the Roadrunner envious. And thats without them even finding out what or how that relates to our relation

Because it's easier to make hard decisions based on limited assumptions than to actually open their minds to something different from what their masturbation fantasy contains.

Yeah, I've heard all of those excuses, too. Many are absolutely stunned that sexual pairings in my family will not be dictated. They are often stunned by the concept of polyamory or polyfidelity (an expanded, but sexually fidelitous family.) They spout off all of their excuses, and I shoot them down categorically. Even though they still run, I have a tiny bit of satisfaction in knowing that I had the opportunity to open that door for even a split second. Some of them come back years later and want to learn more.

We keep trying to figure out what is so abhorrent about offering a person the comfort and stability of a stable, affectionate and happy home. Not a lot of single pseudo-monogamous individuals can offer such a thing. By seeing a long-term poly family in action, they have evidence that we can and will communicate openly and have the ability to get through a lot of the bumps that take others down.

We'll keep searching. I'll keep looking. I have no answers other than patience and education.
Good luck.

Wow... you said it so perfectly.....

Jewel

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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 9:01:39 PM

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Let's face it though- a grand majority of people (doms) out there THINK poly would be a great idea, and have absolutely no skills to do it well.

(in reply to blackwolf99)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 9:01:47 PM

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A big thumbs up for all this great replies..but it's coming from those of us who know what it's like to live this everyday..and for most it's been LT...I just want to know why it's so hard for others but so simple to me....

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 9:08:10 PM

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I agree...but would you not agree...if you can't handle yourself..you can't handle another.... I feel many think hey...I'm the big kuhuna... I'll surf the big one..meaning more than they can handle and wipe out taking more than just themselves under...the wreck many a valuable soul in the process of all tha posturing and bravado...

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/22/2005 9:32:38 PM

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'living is easy with eyes closed'

sound about right?

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 7:02:18 AM

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The biggest problem is that many who "practice" alleged polyamory approach it more from the viewpoint of swingers with kink. I can't blame girls for not wanting to get sucked into an unstable and potentially damaging situation like that.

And when you talk about "play partners" it makes you seem decidedly casual in your outlook. Now when you look at polyamory-it's more about stable family unit with three or more people in it. If the situation is set up so there's a revolving supply of fresh meat with no stability-it's not.

So I would look at this-are you coming across as too casual in you presentation? Poly is hard as it is-add that into the mix,and they will definitely run.

(in reply to blackwolf99)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 8:23:58 AM

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if i am in love, i just don't want to have sex with anyone else.

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RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 8:28:41 AM

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quote:

I have had the worse luck in my search for play partners.

Poly to me is not about play partners. It is about 3 or more people forming a lasting union. If someone asked me to become involved in a poly situation and they spoke of it in ways that referenced it as play, I too would run. Just a thought.

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~erin~

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When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to blackwolf99)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 10:14:08 AM

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In response to the OP , it seems like you are fishing in the wrong pool for what you want to catch.

I think a poly dom needs to be a devoted, committed family man not a harem master. Alot of masters come off as the latter rather than the former. To make poly work takes much more energy and time than people realize. Hard work does have its rewards though

(in reply to blackwolf99)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 11:32:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: glassdoll
if i am in love, i just don't want to have sex with anyone else.

Glassdoll,

Can you elaborate on any experiences that taught you that poly is about being forced to have sex with more than one person? These are two completely different concepts from my viewpoint.

(in reply to glassdoll)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 11:47:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni
The biggest problem is that many who "practice" alleged polyamory approach it more from the viewpoint of swingers with kink. I can't blame girls for not wanting to get sucked into an unstable and potentially damaging situation like that.

And when you talk about "play partners" it makes you seem decidedly casual in your outlook. Now when you look at polyamory-it's more about stable family unit with three or more people in it. If the situation is set up so there's a revolving supply of fresh meat with no stability-it's not.

I'll try not to elaborate too much on the extremely wide range of definitions that people use for poly, none of which being the one above (That would be either Polyfidelity or simply PolyFAMILY, but most users of the umbrella term Polyamory outside of this site do run it like an open relationship or swingers.)

I agree with Gemeni, though about using the term play-partner. If that's what the OP wants, then it's appropriate, but combining it with the concept of Poly does give the "and you are just the newest in the rotation" kind of feel to it. I've done searches and tried to find other people in the non-kink world that understand Poly relationships. Even without kink, if it's just a revolving door situation, it's not the "family" aspect that I'd want.

Trust me folks, even seasoned Poly folk have issues with terminology and defining what type of relationship they are in it for. For me, it's a stable, long-term fidelitous family, not one that swings or has one-nighters with strangers, and we catch all kinds of hell from the Polyamory community for being so darned odd. There are extremes on both ends of the Poly umbrella, they will always be mistaken for the other until the terminology is set at some point.

(in reply to Gemeni)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 12:00:47 PM

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Belseph and i negotiated our marriage contract 3 times, followed by 3 weddings. the last contract made allowances to have a 2nd wife contract added to it. that was 9 yrs. ago, and 11 yrs of marriage. w/We have had 4 canadates for sister wife, and 3 play-mates during this time.
each relationship took many months of courtship and investment. while ernestments and contracts were brought into negotiation. W/we based these ernestments and contracts for marriage on acient irish clan traditions. W/we have found that the ernestments(a type of marital reseme) when exchanged have brought up some rather heated debates and positive supprizes; hammering out into a solid contract which W/we have built O/our family on.
each of the canadates or playmates have left with O/our blessings to continue on with their lives as they had grown to realize themselves durning this process.
And yet W/we still look for a sister wife. Many seem to be as scared off by the size of O/our family and commitment as by the "poly".

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 12:04:06 PM

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Frankly, I haven't noticed this. Most people, sub or vanilla, are not wired for poly, and it stands to reason that they aren't going to be interested in a poly relationship. (That's a good thing, because they wouldn't do very well in a poly relationship anyway.) But there are people who ARE wired for poly, and many of them are subs. They're out there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blackwolf99

Just seem the majority of subs run at the word poly

(in reply to blackwolf99)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 8:10:08 PM

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That seems to be the biggest problem is that to many try to put the definition of 'poly' into a little box. Saying this is exactly what it means for everyone. And that just isnt the case. I like to akin it to the word 'love' (try to stay with me on this one).

If I say "I love my partner" and I say, "I love my mother." and I say " I love cats." does the same definition apply? (yeah I know there some of you thinking 'maybe'. *wink*)

The reality is that it is different for not just every peron, but every relation too. I have a very comitted relation with a submissive who lives me, but I have also had relations with play partner who live alone or with others that are no less commited, no less devoted, no less loving than the relationship I have with the sub who I share a home with.

These poly relations are all built on what those involved need or desire. To say that only a triad (three people living as one family) is the only real poly relation seems kind of narrow minded to me. Like wise to say that anything else is just a 'wham bam thank you ma'am' is exteremely closed minded to the infinite possibilities.

Now understand that I am not judging those in a triad. With the right person we are just as open to having someone live with us as a family (actually we use the word 'tribe'.) But just like members of my blood/birth family (ie mom dad sister brother), not of my poly family/ tribe live with us. Some have other families of there own( such as vanilla famillies), and living together is not practical. Does that mean they are no less loved or cherished, simply because we do not share the same roof? You might be the recipient of harsh words from them should you try to convince them of that.

To me being a part of a poly relation comes down to a sense of 'belonging'. To know that this person loves cares and respects me, regardless of whether or not we share the same roof. I have seen many cases (cruise this board, there not that hard to find) where the people all live together, but there is no family unity.

It saddens me sometimes when the idea is dismissed without even learning what the idea IS. I know that there are many that have been burned, and are jaded to the idea because they assume they are being the asked for the samething that burned them once before. This saddens me even more because isnt or doesnt have to be the case.
Just once I would like to the response, 'What did you have in mind? or to be able to reply 'What would you like it to be?'

Like everything else in bdsm relations, poly relations are open to and interpeted by negotiations. Just wish more could see it that way too.

*graciuosly steps down from the pulpit*

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

RE: Why subs run when they hear the word poly - 7/23/2005 8:57:05 PM

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Insecurity. I know it's a big one for me sometimes, and a big one for everyone from time to time in your life. I know that i used to be DEADSET against poly. While i'm not in a poly relationship now, i'm more open to the possibility. I know that my line of thought used to be "Well, goodness... If i'm not enough to fulfill Your needs... Why do You want me in the first place?" Now i know that is not necessarily the case... But i wanted to point that out, as i did not notice anyone else saying it. :)

~val

(in reply to blackwolf99)

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