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RE: gaining weight - 10/20/2008 10:00:06 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

quote:

ORIGINAL: VivaciousSub

<FR>

I was just talking about this to Sir this weekend, and while I attempt to keep an open mind about the different practices that go on in our lives, sometimes I read something that makes me take a step back and go, "what?". This is one of them - specifically, the fact that she's being 'forced' to do this, and 'this' is something with potentially deadly consequences makes me go "back away quickly".


But there are all kinds of things we do that *could* have potentially deadly consequences.  Playing with electricity has killed people - I am/have been friends with several paramedics and they have seen people killed and/or severely injured doing BDSM-related activities.  . But if I said on these forums I was being "forced" to do something w/electricity, I bet I'd get a lot of responses that said "suck it up and deal."  What does "forced" mean in a BDSM context anyway?  Unless he's got a gun to her head, he's not *really* forcing her to do anything.

Personally any modification of what I eat, body size, etc are on my list of non negotiable hard limits. 



This was my line of thinking as well.  I'm not advocating the weight gain, and I really hate to play the "don't judge my kink" card, but I'm wondering how this is different (fundamentally) from, say, breath play which could cause instant death, or even upside down suspension where something could break and someone could drop to the floor and land on their head.

I sure as heck wouldn't do this, but if this is something they both want, and she's comfortable with the level of risk, then mangia!

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to moonvine)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 12:05:19 AM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Manuel Uribe
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Is Garza the man who was engaged to be married?

It was all televised not long ago and they showed his fiance etc.

(If this is the same guy)


I believe that was Manuel Uribe.  I believe Manuel Uribe was also the guy they referred to as not having significant health problems due to his weight. 

One of my favorite stories is a guy who runs not just triathlons, but super triathlons (the distances are longer and they extend over several days - he weighs 280 - his doctor says he doesn't understand it).  I want to be a fat triathlete too.:)

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 8:51:32 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

quote:

Manuel Uribe
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Is Garza the man who was engaged to be married?

It was all televised not long ago and they showed his fiance etc.

(If this is the same guy)


I believe that was Manuel Uribe.  I believe Manuel Uribe was also the guy they referred to as not having significant health problems due to his weight. 

One of my favorite stories is a guy who runs not just triathlons, but super triathlons (the distances are longer and they extend over several days - he weighs 280 - his doctor says he doesn't understand it).  I want to be a fat triathlete too.:)



My boy brought up the fact that some American football players can top the scales at 300-400 pounds.  You don't hear people complaining that they are going to run up their medical bills and cost everyone money over time. 

(in reply to moonvine)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 9:13:46 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Pretty sure the ability to not be able to move due to morbid obesity is considered a problem. A huge one.

To the OP, tell your friend to tell her "Master" Fuck no.  Simple.



quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

I'm not agreeing with "forcedf eeding" and I don't doubt the guy will not stick around if she developes health concerns but not every fat person WILL get diabeties or blood sugar problems. There's a man who weighs 1200 pounds, and he was a documentary about him an his quest to loose weight, and even at 1200 he had no medical problems other than poor circulation and the inability to move about.

So, not every morbidly obese person WILL get problems, but more like they may.
quote:

ORIGINAL: nyrisa

Due to the serious health risks of obesity, there is not a doctor alive who would condone an overweight person gaining more weight. This is not just body modification, this is killing her a little at a time, sort of along the lines of slow arsenic poisoning. You can bet your last dollar this guy will not be there to take care of her and pay her medical bills when diabetes, high blood pressure, heart problems, sleep apnea, joint damage to knees and hips, back problems, the list goes on......needs treatment.

I am not at all poking at anyone who is overweight (one being myself); I would hope that anyone who already has to face these health problems would also advise her to not do this.



_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 9:17:35 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		What the hell does that mean? Not all "subbies" have weight issues sweetie, nor do the ones that are struggling with it likely to appreciate that snide little dig. I am lucky enough to not have a weight issue. I just have issues with rude smarmy comments under the guise of concern.


quote:

ORIGINAL: katie978

As per the usual, many subbies on here are very sensitive about the topic of weight.

Personally, I don't see a man wanting a woman to reach an unhealthy high weight as being too different from wanting her to reach an unhealthy low weight. I've read several profiles of doms who insist that it doesn't matter if a sub is overweight when she comes to him: he will put her on a crash diet until she reaches the weight he find ideal. The "ideal weight" depicted by models and actresses and such these days can be dangerously underweight.

This is a risk that the sub is willing to undertake for her master. I don't see it was terrifically different than any other risky activity. Yes, many overweight people develop health problems. However, not all of them do and not all of them will. If the woman is already overweight, I honestly don't see a problem with it if she is willing to gain weight.

As for how to do it in a healthy fashion, I'm not entirely sure. I'm sure her dom doesn't want her doing it in a healthy fashion (i.e. protein shakes, working out, etc.) because he's not turned on by a super-muscly woman who weighs 200 pounds, he wants someone who has the flab and folds to go with the weight. I suggest she avoids foods that are terrible for her: fast food, ice cream, chips/crisps, and stick to rice and veggies and meats: bigger portions than she would normally choose, more often than she would normally choose. She might also try and be a bit active, so that when/if she chooses to lose the weight, she's still mobile and able to exercise, if even only a little.



_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to katie978)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 9:24:00 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Personally, I don't see a man wanting a woman to reach an unhealthy high weight as being too different from wanting her to reach an unhealthy low weight. I've read several profiles of doms who insist that it doesn't matter if a sub is overweight when she comes to him: he will put her on a crash diet until she reaches the weight he find ideal. The "ideal weight" depicted by models and actresses and such these days can be dangerously underweight.


there enough males who like bigger females. Propably not healthy..agree...but if they are happy with it..and feel well...well..then it is ok to me.
Here in Europe the "to thin models" are not allowed (on many catwalks) to walk anymore.

Agree with you though that weight is an issue that females not like to talk about. But my experience is..with my subs..is that they start a diet...while I do think their weight is fine.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 9:47:32 AM   
SlaveSuru


Posts: 89
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		If she is being forced to do it,  obviousy she doesn't want to.  She probably already has weight related issues.  Personally if my Master wanted to feed me to an unhealthy weight i would think he had little or no regard for my health.   That's just me though.  As it is my Master makes sure I eat properly and exercise regularly.  I have lost 12 pounds since he started me on it and I feel better than ever^^ 

_____________________________

Master Dax's loyal and loving slave
Those who walk in the footsteps of others often find themselves lost, forge your own path in life!

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 10:40:11 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		Personally, I don't see how her Master asking her to gain weight is any different than a Master who wants to do breath play, or other high-risk, low-return (for the submissive) fetish activities. There is also a difference, to me, between being 'forced' and being 'commanded'. Being forced implies that she doesn't -want- to do so, which implies that she doesn't consent. Unless he's sitting on her and forcing the food into her via tube, she can choose not to eat, or choose to walk away if she's uncomfortable with gaining any more weight. If she hasn't agreed to it (or even if she has but is uncomfortable with it), she has the option to leave the relationship, and it is better to do so now than regret later. Agreeing to something just to be in a relationship, even when the relationship isn't what you want, doesn't really work out well.

Now, if he has commanded her, and she is -comfortable- with following through on the command, that is a completely different kettle of fish, in my eyes. Someone earlier said that this is more extreme than a body mod, but the truth is, it isn't. It fits into RACK just like everything else... there are risks. She needs to know what the -actual- risks are for her, and what choices she can make to ameliorate those risks, and then she needs to decide whether it is something she is willing to do.

The whole issue of weight is so heavily loaded, but danger is danger, and being asked to gain weight, as long as it is done over time and proper care is given to the general well-being of the person, is actually a relatively low-risk kink on the 'danger meter'. It most likely isn't going to kill her today, or tomorrow, or next week, and there are lots of things she can do to minimize the strain on her body and even be pretty healthy through the process. The OP doesn't say -how- far over her ideal weight she is. Is she 20 lbs over, or 200? If she's 200, will her body even -let- her gain more weight?

Gaining weight through consuming -real- foods... whole grains, fresh fruits and vegetables, fresh meats and dairy, etc., while minimizing processed, overly sugared and overly salted commercial foods will serve to minimize the damage from gaining, even for individuals who are already overweight. Choosing foods prepared at home, from fresh, unadulterated food sources including as many organic sources as possible will reduce the body's need to store as many toxic chemicals in the stored fat, minimizing the risk of toxicity during weight loss afterward. Gaining weight over a certain point (about 30-40% over the 'healthy' weight range) will often aggravate or induce infertility, so if she wants to have babies, she may have a LOT of trouble doing so while she is fat. Maintaining a healthy level of activity while gaining will improve circulation, strengthen the heart, and reduce the risk of incapacity. Being followed by a doctor is a need, not a want... keeping track of things like blood sugar levels, A1C levels, and blood pressure can catch problems before they become too big to treat, and can give information about when the body has reached its limit in terms of tolerance.


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to TMIk)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 10:45:19 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		Great post, Calla.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 11:13:44 AM   
Beneathhumanity


Posts: 19
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		There is nothing wrong with gaining weight for the one you serve, I myself was gaining weight being for a time i was a feedee or intended to be for one  that I  would serve, however after some doctor visits I realized it wasn't healthy for me. Its okay for someone to gain, get fat being some dominants prefer a submissive/slave to have some meat on her. However its important to remain cautious about how healthy she is, if something is wrong with her body, being you may not always be aware with whats going on. Regular Doctor visits are important just to check up and make sure that the indivisual remains healthy. Do something before its too late. Its bad being too thin as well as too fat.

_____________________________

"You are no one's pet, dog, object, or sub until you give them that right. Only you can give it. No one can take or assume it without your permission."

(in reply to TMIk)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 11:14:50 AM   
MadameMarque


Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessMine

I know, I know, to each their own kink, but what the hell? Subs aren't sumos for the love of goddess, and really, I only know of sumo wrestlers gaining weight in a healthy manner.

Love
GM


No, even sumo wrestlers suffer the consequences of extreme obesity.    http://www.banzuke.com/96-6/msg00064.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumo

Even assuming that the woman in question wants to be an absolute slave to an owner, let her consider this: if she allows her owner to harm her, she will be complicit in his bringing guilt and shame to himself.  It might be selfish of her, to comply with his wishes, in light of this.


(in reply to GoddessMine)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 11:38:57 AM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn


My boy brought up the fact that some American football players can top the scales at 300-400 pounds.  You don't hear people complaining that they are going to run up their medical bills and cost everyone money over time. 


I think that really and truly isn't the major concern.  Everyone, if they live long enough, will run up medical bills and cost money over time, if they do not have medical insurance.  My grandma lived to 83 and after having run through all her assets, Medicaid started paying for her care. 

Men in this society are expected to be big and strong.  Football players are admired by many.  I once dated a guy who played for the University of Oklahoma in the 80's and many of his teammates are dead now due to steroid use.

Women are expected to be small, whether or not that is healthy for that particular woman, and attempts to get that way are admired and encouraged. 

Many years ago, there used to be a BDSM group just for fat folks and their admirers called Anvil Dungeon International - boy do I wish they were still around.

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 2:17:37 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Apparently, even being 10 lbs over-weight can have a detrimental effect, I've read studies linking obesity to birth defects along with lots of horrible potentials for the person who is larger than is healthful.  I personally don't find fat jiggilyness aesthetically pleasing but don'tmindsome extra poundage.  I'm surely not perfect. 
Another poster shifted my line of thought (Thank you, Nyrisa) to body modification.  I view plastic surgery as body modification just as punching holes in or adding ink to one's self.  Not my cup of tea but to each his or her own and I have seen some beautiful effects of these choices.  I've researched body modification and the significance there-of as part of my Masters' level study (Master in thisinstance menaing a degree, not a person...lol, hah, I've neverfelt the need to qualify that usage before, that's great!).  So, contemplating intentional fatness as body modification.  Okay.  If the person wants to do it and doesn't intend to try to be on the public hand-out list and/or be a drain to the medical system when their body falls apart and they don't have anyone for whom they are responsible that their dying sooner and being sicker before they do would harm, who am I to say that is wrong? 
For myself, I'd tell someone who wanted me to intentionally become fat (Or unhealthily skinny) to take a flying leap into Hell but I also didn't ink myself up or punch holes in various aspects of myself to please my vanilla ex- nor have Ihad any plastic surgery to date.  The human body in its varieties is a beautiful thing, imo.  Some things I findmore beautiful than others.  If someone wished me to modify myself, they'd have to really convince me that it was within keeping with my own 'body as temple' beliefs (While admitting I am no health nut) as well as doing something that was intrinsic to their happiness within the context of a relationship with as much presumed permanence as one can ever anticipate in a relationship. 
Does your friend want to bulk up for this other person?  You mentioned the word forced.
  Davan

(in reply to TMIk)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 6:08:38 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I get a bit upset when folks just assume that the odds are so against a larger person when it comes to health.  It really depends on the size nature intended them to be, which none of us, even professionals, can determine with any real accuracy.  A person who is programmed to be small who chooses or through other circumstances become even slightly overweight will have health issues because their entire body structure is calibrated for less weight.  There are many people in the world that are just simply naturally big and the extra weight really amounts to nothing with regard to their health because their bodies are simply capable of handling it better (evidenced by their long and active lifespans and lack of medical intervention). 

I will never be a tiny person or even what is suggested on the doctors' charts.  It simply isn't in the cards.  I also come from a long line of folks that were large and lived long full lives with minimal health issues.  My problems are specific to me and predated my own weight gain.  A slow in the ability, not the desire, to be active and trying to adjust my diet to accommodate the reduction of physical activity led to a start in my weight problems.  I am a female that likely can never hold at a weight below 165-175 lbs. (based on my doctor's assessment of the lowest weight I have managed to maintain for a year or more).  Now that I have been through my abusive relationship complete with the forced eating and had a couple of children and slowly crawling toward premenopause, I will not see that weight again no matter what I do or how much of a turn around I have with my health.

My blood pressure is admirably low, rock solid blood sugar, cholestrol readings that had the doctor ask me to increase my intake of all forms of fat because it was so low (mainly as a way to keep stores of fat soluable vitamins that were a bit low about a year ago), and no other abnormalities.  Finding the answer to this other issue that has plagued me since my preteen years will leave me a very healthy individual.  I will be considered overweight or even obese by the current charts, but will be muscular, strong, flexible, and endurant.... all things I am looking forward to.

Being large is not necessarily a death sentence, but that is not license to indulge in dangerous behavior.  Eating a poor diet and/or being inactive is a poor choice regardless of size.  More important than a number on the scale is to eat healthfully and get out and have some fun.  Let's not forget stress reduction and good sleeping habits as well.  I adamantly practice all of these things and have good habits established for when I can come out the other side of the current difficulties.  I am not perfect with them, but they are things I strive to achieve everyday as they are just one more way of helping myself. 

That's enough of a rant for now. 

lovingpet     

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 6:45:14 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		Bravo, lovingpet.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: gaining weight - 10/21/2008 9:42:40 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn

Bravo, lovingpet.


Many thanks, LadyJulieAnn!

lovingpet

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: gaining weight - 10/24/2008 4:39:36 AM   
SlaveSuru


Posts: 89
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

That was an awesome post loving Pet.  I am not saying that the woman's being overweight is the problem but as you said some people are calibrated to be larger.  My family is alot like yours,  I am 5'1 and i weight 160,  My doctor tells me all my vital signs are good.  my cholesterol and sodium levels are low even though I feel driven to consume a larger quantity of salt than most normal people ( My body does not process it properly).  Blood pressure is normal and such.  I said what I said because a year ago I packed on 12 extra pounds from the depo shot and it made me miserable,  I started having high blood pressure and my cholesterol was elevated (( not to a dangerous level but it sure was trying to get there.))  I started getting Migraines worse than before even after I was off the depo.  The only thing that helped was getting the extra weight off. 

I just worry that maybe this girl was at an optimum weight and gaining more weight will increase her risks of health problems.   It took me about 5 months to finally lose all of the extra weight I gained but it was worth it.  I feel just as healthy now as when I was 17 and weighed 145.     I'm not saying larger people cannot be healthy and love their bodies I am just saying if you want to do something ike this go to the doctor reguraly and make sure your numbers aren't leaping off the charts.




_____________________________

Master Dax's loyal and loving slave
Those who walk in the footsteps of others often find themselves lost, forge your own path in life!

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: gaining weight - 10/24/2008 8:55:20 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		SlaveSuru,

I certainally did not wish to aim my post at you, nor did I think I had.  Thank you for the excellent follow up post, however.  I will say that, to be honest, I would contribute most of your health problems to that darned depo than to a few extra pounds because the hormones in it are stored in the fat.  It is not that you lost the fat necessarily as it is that you finally got rid of the excess hormones in your body.  For chubbers like myself, I tend to caution against hormonal birth controls for this very reason.  There are so many other options available that it seems silly to throw our bodies into chaos for very long periods of time just to avoid babies.  I am no doctor, but my own experiences as well as many of my family and friends in similar circumstances bears this out repeatedly.

I am glad you are so tickled with your weight loss and I am looking forward to mine whenever the docs finally get a handle on my condition!

lovingpet

(in reply to SlaveSuru)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: gaining weight - 11/12/2008 6:37:28 AM   
SlaveSuru


Posts: 89
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

I'm on Lutera now and haven't had any weight gain or any negative side effects so if you are sensitive to hormones I yhink lutera's a great way to go. 


_____________________________

Master Dax's loyal and loving slave
Those who walk in the footsteps of others often find themselves lost, forge your own path in life!

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: gaining weight - 11/12/2008 7:16:20 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for that update SlaveSuru!  I may look into it if I find myself in need of birth control in the future.  Careful if it is still homonally based, though.  It takes more time for pills and such to build up in the system, so it is not as dramatic as Depo, but can still happen.  Hope it does work well for you and I know you are just still so tickled with dropping those extra pounds! 

lovingpet

(in reply to SlaveSuru)
Profile   Post #: 60
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