RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (Full Version)

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Bobkgin -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 2:44:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i don't care about the law regarding rule of thumb it was the implication of your words regarding when a man feels rage over being denied sex i had issue with.  Being in a rage and beating your wife is abuse.  


Yes ... and ?




velvetears -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 2:46:25 PM)

And nothing bob.... you reveal  more and more everyday [;)]




Bobkgin -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 2:52:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

And nothing bob.... you reveal  more and more everyday [;)]


Glad to hear it. [:)]




PsychoticWolf -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 2:54:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


Have you been with someone who was kinky and open minded in the courting stages of your relationship, then after you got married, decided kink was not only something they were not interested in "a little" - but something they would never do at all?  How did they explain their change of heart?  What did you do to address the situation?

Akasha




It's simple, if you're in a monogamous relationship and choose to lie, you don't belong in my home. This is why I'm single for the time being, until I find someone with more honesty. Last person went to a friends house, it was for a make-over bit or what-not, and I didn't mind it, till I found out the truth.
She had her stuff moved out and left same day. I don't need trash in my home, I like to keep it clean thank you. 




Mercnbeth -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 2:56:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i don't care about the law regarding rule of thumb it was the implication of your words regarding when a man feels rage over being denied sex i had issue with.  Being in a rage and beating your wife is abuse.  


Yes ... and ?

And...

How does that fit in with your philosophy of no punishment and "withdrawing" your dominance as the result of betrayal? (O.o)

I'm confident that you'll say the quote was taken out of context or does not represent your "one true" way.

Also curious...

Does posting an ongoing profile in the threads generate any interest?




LotusSong -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 3:09:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Do you think that could be the reason that Men/Women do it on the side?


An old friend once said or marriage: "It's the ultimate loneliness with the minimum amount of privacy"




pickingrinnin -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 7:37:35 PM)

Almost any relationship - vanilla or kinky - will have up and down periods when it comes to the frequency of sex and play.  There are also things that can interfere with such things temporarily - new medications, health issues, etc.  Working through those things is just a part of a loving, healthy relationship.

In the case of a spouse who actually lied about their enjoyment of an activity or relationship style prior to the marriage, though, I would consider that grounds for a divorce.  If the marriage starts out with that large of a deception, I would have to wonder what lies the other person has told, or will be telling. 

- Jesse
penitentialarts.com - history on the kinky side




SusanofO -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 9:40:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

He never did explain it, but it wasn't just kink that stopped. sex in any form pretty much stopped after the wedding.  I was totally not impressed.


This happened to me as well, akisha (except it wasn't kinky sex that stopped, "just"  "Vanilla" sex) - there may well be a club of we types of ladies out there...we'd never had kinky sex, and I didn't discover until well into my marriage that I really really wanted anything BDSM. I once even accused my husband of "driving me to it" - and said that all of my desires for sex of any kind had been pent up for so long, that they had curdled into a melting pot of what resulted in a drive for kink and D/s. I am not sure if that's true, but I know the desire has been there, in strong or more subtle form, ever since I allowed myself to discover it.

The way I handled it was to beg, plead, scream, throw things, trying to get him to understand how frustrated I had become with our apparently soul-less romantic and physical relationship - and I finally came out and asked if he'd mind if I had an affair to satisfy my desire for sex and kink as well, since he obviously wasn't going to fulfill it.

He said No, that would be wrong of me to do - since I was married to him - and I told him that if he didn't want a divorce (he did not) that left me with my hands completely tied (so to speak),  and that I felt we were going to have to have some kind of an arrangement that would work for us both - but that if he was going to be completely unreasonable, that I was going to pursue one that would work for me - and I did.

After a few years, I decided he was genuinely asexual (some people are. They are pretty rare, IMO, but they're out there, and I am convinced I was married to one of those people). I can only think he must have been faking his moderate (but definitely existent) apparent desire for sex which he did seem to have before we got married. But looking back, it seemed I initiated it more often than he did. He was not gay - I do know that.  

But we were compatible on other fronts for quite awhile, so it wasn't all bad. He had a lot of nice things about him - but he also wanted to be a monk - and I just, I just.....oh man. I can't do it. I can, but I just hate it. and hate what I become when I try. I sort of think we initially got together for all of the wrong reasons. In a way, it was maybe poignant that we found eachother - but it wasn't probably really all that "healthy" (it's a long, boring story).   

I eventually (after about a year) broke things off with my ex-Dominant, partly out of guilt for "betraying" my husband (even though I think he knew what  was doing, because I told him I was going to do it - we hadn't had sex in over 9 years, at that point), and partly because my Dominant and I were not as compatible as I'd initially thought. But my ex-Dominant had managed to open up a whole new world, for me.

I still find it pretty hard to feel truly guilty about what I did, regardless of the fact I am sure there are many people who would classify it as a "slutty" move, I suppose. I still feel pretty much justified in what I decided to do, and how I handled it.

I didn't throw it in his face - but I wasn't about to give up my need for physical and BDSM needs being met (which I'd managed to deny for years, out of some stultified sense of obligation), just because he couldn't seem to deal. I do feel obligated to not be deliberately mena and cruel to someone ** But -where the point is, exactly at which one is required to give up their enitre chance for happiness to satisfy a legal obligation is another question entirely, IMO.  

People always seem to suggest counselling for these types - but that only works if both people want it. I also don't consider myself a sociopath. No sex and no divorce equals misery unless some alternate arrangements are made, IMO. Oh well...(I think many of us have had a discussion on that topic a few times here at CM, hehe. No need to go there again...)

But it is an interesting topic, IMO, because it's so individual that easy solutions defy a streamlined - "one answer fits all" approach, IMO. But I haven't really got enough energy at the moment to discuss it - although if anyone else wants to pick up the ball, I'd happily toss my two cents back in. I am just wound up, I guess - and that;s why I am talking so much. It's been an electrifying week (for altogether different reasons).

Anyway - I see myself as an evolving sexual being - not as static at all. I recently (about 9 months ago) decided to pursue acting on what I saw as my "Switch" tendencies- and I really appreciated opening up that side of myself, too. So - things are changing every once in a while, as far as how I view myself in the BDSM "world". It is an interesting world, and I am glad I discovered it, overall.

It still freaks me out how almost accidental it was that I did, too. Fortunately for me, I am a pretty curious person, and don't care one whit about what some conventional people think maybe is "weird" - I don't know what that word really means. To  me, it doesn't have much meaning, anymore (if it ever did). I do know for a long time, I felt I was letting some people down -it took awhile for me to really realize that I mattered a little, too.

I have lately been intrigued when I see those questions about: Would you "Go Vanilla" for the right person? I am just the type (I really am, hehe) who would say "yes" to that in a flash of excitement and optimism- and live to regret it (I just know it) - but fortunately now, I know myself better than I did years ago..so maybe that won't happen (because I do stillo see - occasionally - "Vanilla" types. Hope that isn;t breaking anyone's little "rulebook" . Anyway - at least if it does, my eyes will be wide open, this time (even if I still do a foolish thing).

I know the question was about what to do if someone changes what they said they intially wanted as far as kink, once a "committed" relationship is underway - But - I do think the topic is transferable to other situations - sorry to bring it up again, for anyone who already knows this story...it's a pretty common one, I am betting. Life is just so strange, sometimes.

- Susan 




SusanofO -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/5/2007 10:43:11 PM)

My gosh - I can't believe I wrote a post that long. I better go catch some shut-eye soon. When your posts start to time out, it's time to stop writing, maybe. Hope ya'll have a warm and wonderful evening and week-end.[:)]

*Re: This wife-beating question. Is that where this "Rule of thumb" really came from? I don't understand how that transfers to a BDSM situation (at least it wouldn't for me. Maybe as a fantasy, but overall, that's not even where the ball-park where fantasies are playing).

- Susan




Bobkgin -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/6/2007 1:23:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

*Re: This wife-beating question. Is that where this "Rule of thumb" really came from? I don't understand how that transfers to a BDSM situation (at least it wouldn't for me. Maybe as a fantasy, but overall, that's not even where the ball-park where fantasies are playing).

- Susan


Susan,

Read posts 32-34 on Pg 2 of this thread.

Ghita had commented on someone being denied sex on their wedding night. Doc Rudy had commented this was a "recipe for instant male rage" and I chimed in with a reference to the rule of thumb, intending it to be a humourous suggestion that the rage was so great they tried to limit it with the rule of thumb (an urban legend which never existed, thus the humour).

Velvet translated this into advocating wife-beating [8|]

There are several intent on putting their own spin to what others say.




petdave -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/6/2007 5:22:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

my husbands ex wife...on the night of their wedding, rolled over with her back to him and said "my mom said I dont have to have sex anymore once Im married".....well...needless to say that has something to do with why shes his ex.....



See, this is why we need to spend tens of millions of dollars on abstinence education... after all these years, people are still getting it wrong [8D]




artistbrandi -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/6/2007 6:01:52 AM)

Wow...what if it's kind of a backward situation?

My husband and I have been together for almost 4 years (married 3.)  We get along like you can't imagine, we do everything together, and we're very happy.  There have been a few smaller issues in the bedroom which have worked themselves out (but who hasn't had them at one point at time in a marriage?)  I thought it was a gift from God that we never fight (that was something I wanted after being woken up several nights in my childhood to hear my parents screaming at eachother.) We're good for eachother.  Now I'm learning that I am curious about something I know that -at least at first mention- he is not into at all; and unless he's hiding something, he's definitely the "sub" personality like myself.  I'm realizing between him and I that these things I am curious about will never happen- at least not without me taking charge, lot and lots of education, time, effort, and ever so slow movements- and even if we make it that far, is he doing it because of me, or because he enjoys it?  Will he eventually find that he enjoys being dom?  Can he handle what I want?  Though I've only begun to understand that this is a part of me over the last few months, it's very depressing, and I feel like a fraud.  This will for sure create a rift of some sort, and it's not fair to him.

I've always been a huge fan of honesty; I've always been straightforward with everything to him; but I see now it can hurt just as much when you're not honest with yourself.




velvetears -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/6/2007 7:55:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

*Re: This wife-beating question. Is that where this "Rule of thumb" really came from? I don't understand how that transfers to a BDSM situation (at least it wouldn't for me. Maybe as a fantasy, but overall, that's not even where the ball-park where fantasies are playing).

- Susan


Susan,

Read posts 32-34 on Pg 2 of this thread.

Ghita had commented on someone being denied sex on their wedding night. Doc Rudy had commented this was a "recipe for instant male rage" and I chimed in with a reference to the rule of thumb, intending it to be a humourous suggestion that the rage was so great they tried to limit it with the rule of thumb (an urban legend which never existed, thus the humour).

Velvet translated this into advocating wife-beating [8|]

There are several intent on putting their own spin to what others say.


Take responsibility Bob.. don't back peddle now. It was quite obvious what was meant. i don't beleieve you Bob.




Bobkgin -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/6/2007 8:57:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

*Re: This wife-beating question. Is that where this "Rule of thumb" really came from? I don't understand how that transfers to a BDSM situation (at least it wouldn't for me. Maybe as a fantasy, but overall, that's not even where the ball-park where fantasies are playing).

- Susan


Susan,

Read posts 32-34 on Pg 2 of this thread.

Ghita had commented on someone being denied sex on their wedding night. Doc Rudy had commented this was a "recipe for instant male rage" and I chimed in with a reference to the rule of thumb, intending it to be a humourous suggestion that the rage was so great they tried to limit it with the rule of thumb (an urban legend which never existed, thus the humour).

Velvet translated this into advocating wife-beating [8|]

There are several intent on putting their own spin to what others say.


Take responsibility Bob.. don't back peddle now. It was quite obvious what was meant. i don't beleieve you Bob.



That was obvious some time ago, Velvet.

Fortunately who I am does not depend upon what you believe, so believe whatever you wish.




velvetears -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/6/2007 10:21:35 AM)

Thanks but i don't need permission from you to do so Bob [;)]  You're not king of my hill [:D]




BBWLuverKY -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/10/2007 8:22:14 AM)

Jeez... Exactly MY situation after marriage... only I realized what would happen in "4 to 6 months down the road", so I just keep my meetings discreet.  Only thing I need now is a nice, chubby PERMANENT local submissive instead of these fly-by-day trainers and wannabes I keep running into.....




crouchingtigress -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/10/2007 8:38:55 AM)

wow .

to me that is like getting pregnant to keep a guy...knarly




LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/10/2007 8:58:39 AM)

i think it is more about how you glue the relationship together to keep it their. We you have that first part attraction or honey moon period.  there are going to be to things to surface is this a relationship of lust which will turn to dust. Or one of substance
is it more then just kink. what parts of them are equal parts to you. Think of it as a cake recipe. you have all the right things it will be a great cake to enjoy for a life time.  or it might be a great looking cake and just be all icing  




LadyPact -> RE: Bait and Switch? Kinky dating, but after marriage - forget it! (10/10/2007 9:50:49 AM)

Before I get too much into My own, I have two comments......
 
Spanklette, I think it's great that you and your Daddy are working on the issue.  Even better that it's seen an "Our" issue, rather than one partner or the other.
 
A general comment, whether or not anyone likes the way it was presented, or who mentioned it, yes, the "Rule of Thumb" term does directly relate to the size of a branch that one might be allowed to beat his wife.  At that time, anything bigger than the thumb was considered a foul, while the equal size or smaller wasn't.  Nobody is saying it was right, or proper, but it has to be taken into consideration that those were different times.
 
Now, on to Myself.  I am guilty of something of the reverse situation from the OP.  My difference was that I was in the lifestyle before I met My husband.  I've mentioned in other posts before that I met him and married him while, for the lack of a better term, taking a "break".  I completely admit this was the wrong, let Me say WRONG way of doing things.  I don't recommend it to anyone.  In some ways, it was a struggle and at times, continues to be so.  There are ups and downs with it.  I'm lucky that he also now has an interest in the lifestyle.  Thankfully, it turns out that he wasn't exactly a pure vanilla bean himself. 
 
At certain stages throughout this "discovery", We do have Our bumps in the road.  At this particular point in the process, it is exceedingly rare for either of Us to bottom to the other.  Something that is different from other times We've experienced in the past.  It is a missing element just now.  Though I don't consider it a bait and switch, because it wasn't something that We started out with, I do see it at this time as an obstacle.  It is something that We grew into, and dropped off.  Needless to say, some other things have dropped off, too.  (I'm sure folks were wondering exactly when I was going to mention the sexual part.) 
 
I guess what I'm saying is, from the reverse of the matter, some things do take time.  There are ups and downs in both areas, sexual and BDSM in nature.




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