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RE: Forced consent - 10/7/2007 10:37:20 AM

slaverosebeauty

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Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi
So where does consent begin for you?

Depends on what is being consented too. It can begin at the moment we meet, or it can be held off on until certain activites come into play or until we are around certain people, etc.

quote:

Is it always there once you begin the relationship?

For MJ an I, I have given my consent to basically everything, excluding hard-limits or anything that we have not discussed or that He doesn't have training or knowledge about.

quote:

Does it begin the first time you consent to an activity and then continue throughout the length of the relationship? Or does it begin anew each time an activity is started?

Depends on the activity. Concent is relaitve for MJ an I. I give Him basic carblonche (sp?) as far as consent goes. MJ knows me well enough to know how I will or may react in a given situation; plenty of things are 'givens' so no consent is required, since its a 'given' in our realtionship, ie- sex when He wants it, bondage, spanking, touching, etc. I leave most of those decisions up to MJ, it's not much consent as it is talking about a new activity and weighing things. Our safewords come into play and those are the ultimate form of censent or non-consent.

< Message edited by slaverosebeauty -- 10/7/2007 10:38:02 AM >

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(in reply to xoxi)

RE: Forced consent - 10/7/2007 10:46:45 AM

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From: UK
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quote:

slaverosebeauty wrote: carblonche (sp?)

Carte blanche (pronounced cart-blonsh).

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

RE: Forced consent - 10/7/2007 10:59:14 AM

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<Fast Reply>

I've been reading the responses to this thread and it got me to thinking of what I have ...and what I am going thru now. For over a year now. I've been talking with..(shortly owned) by MyyOwn. He's a sadist like one I have never met before. He entroduced to me a side of me I never knew was there. And lord knows when the ride started... it was fabulous. I consented to it all. With out having to each and every time he told me I HAD to do something. He changed a few things about me that he knew were hard limits for me. But when he changed them.. I didn't stop it. I did in fact talk to him about it before.. or after the fact. But I never stopped him when he decided to do anything right then and there.

That's when I started to get upset... not sure.. of myself.. him.. anything. I felt that with him refusing to accept my limits.. he wasn't the one for me. And so I left the relationship. I ran like hell. Now keeping in mind.. even when he violated my hard limits... I allowed this. He forced them on me... and I gave him my consent with out a word at the time.

Well here I find myself back in his control. I ran full circle realizing I craved the force control he has over me. I do not give my consent each and every time. He knows it's there. If I do not like something... he knows by my reaction. And he forces it more on me... just changes his tatics. I find that so fullfilling. Knowing that he has control over me. He knows the consent is there reguardless. I can't say stop or no... once he has started. And yes.. I think it's because he starts out putting me in his frame of mind... not leaving me in my own.

Now I know not everyone is gonna agree with this. And that's fine. To each their own opinions. But untill you have seriously experinaced actual forced control... you can't bad mouth it either. And it's not for everyone. It wasn't for me when I first experianced it. Like I said.. I got scared and bailed out of the relationship. Luckily for me... he never gave up on me and waited for me to actually crawl back begging for more of him. It's a feeling..a hold on me.. that I can't descibe. I just know it's there...and I love it to no end.

But like I said.... it's not for everyone. And to tell someone how they consent or do not consent each and every time is bullshit. Everyones relationships work different. It's a persons right to give or not give. It's a persons right to flee or stay. What works for one... doesn't always work for another. The slame ole cliques could go on and on and on...

So in answer to the OP....(Yep took the scenic route here again...lol).. my consent started when I said... yes I consent to your control over me and all you wish to have control over. Knowing all alone I was giving consent to a sadist... not just a dom.. not just a master... but a serious hard core sadist......

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 10/7/2007 11:02:25 AM >

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RE: Forced consent - 10/7/2007 12:00:25 PM

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From: NYS
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He doesn't ask for permission, he asks for necessary information. Now if he just wanted to use me for sex and didn't care if I enjoyed it, that's one thing. But if he wants to see me writhing in passion, then he needs to know what kind of shape I'm in.

And even if all he wanted was to use me, he needs to know if I'm having my period or stomach cramps which would let in the clear possibility of me needing to go to the bathroom immediately since we're not into scat play.

I suppose there are those who would think that being told that their partner is spending the day throwing up is akin to having permission refused, but here it's just information between two intelligent adults.

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Forced consent - 10/7/2007 1:21:27 PM

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Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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It begins anew with every activity. I refuse not to have the right to say stop, or no and not have it listend to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

So where does consent begin for you? Is it always there once you begin the relationship? Does it begin the first time you consent to an activity and then continue throughout the length of the relationship? Or does it begin anew each time an activity is started?

(in reply to xoxi)

RE: Forced consent - 10/7/2007 3:02:28 PM

Posts: 49
Joined: 10/7/2007
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Hmm .. actually when i was given my collar i gave up my consenting too .. i have very few limits anyways .. and i gave myself to him because i trust him with all of me. so as for consent well he can jsut take what he wants and well i just love it! its funny how easy it is to get me to give in anyways .. all he has to do is grab my hair and i melt so why fight it! lol

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)

RE: Forced consent - 10/7/2007 5:52:56 PM

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Truesub4u - You are not alone.. Thanks for sharing this. Totally understood... and you are a wonderful brave girl if I may say - and he in his wisdom to see and appreciate your growth is a man to be respected. He must be very proud of you

(in reply to gentlestarZR)

RE: Forced consent - 10/8/2007 7:13:17 PM

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Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
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I don't want anything less than a man who is strong enough to take what he wants. Even though I might not technically 'enjoy' it if I'm already raw or exhausted or pissed off, or whatever, it is a huge satisfaction to be owned that way by someone so strong, taken without consent. Technically rape I suppose, but that is the dynamic I enjoy. It makes me feel like he can have anything and anyone he wants, and I am the one he chooses, pretty empowering actually in a paradoxical way. Past partners have not been sadistic enough to have concerns about safe words and limits, and now with Stephan I have neither for very different reasons. I know if there was really a critical medical or serious emotional issue he would not damage me, that is not in anyone's interest. But anyone who'd roll back to their side if I had a headache or was in a defiant mood would not be an appealing mate for me.

~ J

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(in reply to leatherette)

RE: Forced consent - 10/8/2007 8:10:39 PM

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I've actually been contemplating consent within my own relationship. I basically gave him the right to do whatever he wants, which means I consented to a whole bunch of stuff implicitly that I honestly maybe didn't even think about? And I never agreed to obey him completely or to obey him at all. I agreed to become his property. Like a dog or cat or car, I don't always run the way he wants. Just because my car wouldn't start this morning doesn't diminish my possession of it.

Don't get me wrong---I enjoy obeying him and the consequences of disobedience are never pretty. Not to mention, doing things his way makes our relationship run so much smoother. Plus, who wants to be with someone who is disrespectful? Love and good dose of common sense are generally why I choose to obey. But...I don't consider disobedience breaking the original commitment I made to him.

So for me, consent and obedience are different and do not necessarily go hand in hand. I doubt that was what you were going for, but I'm at the end of my post and there you are.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

RE: Forced consent - 10/9/2007 1:48:52 AM

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Joined: 9/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

I've actually been contemplating consent within my own relationship. I basically gave him the right to do whatever he wants, which means I consented to a whole bunch of stuff implicitly that I honestly maybe didn't even think about? And I never agreed to obey him completely or to obey him at all. I agreed to become his property. Like a dog or cat or car, I don't always run the way he wants. Just because my car wouldn't start this morning doesn't diminish my possession of it.

Don't get me wrong---I enjoy obeying him and the consequences of disobedience are never pretty. Not to mention, doing things his way makes our relationship run so much smoother. Plus, who wants to be with someone who is disrespectful? Love and good dose of common sense are generally why I choose to obey. But...I don't consider disobedience breaking the original commitment I made to him.

So for me, consent and obedience are different and do not necessarily go hand in hand. I doubt that was what you were going for, but I'm at the end of my post and there you are.

I enjoyed your post, but I think you avoided the essential question. Let's say you were given an instruction and for your own reasons disobeyed, how would you feel and react if he took it upon himself to force your obedience - be it through manipulation, intimidation, physical force, the application of pain or punishment, et al, continued until you yielded and obeyed?

To take your car analogy - if you decided to get the toolkit out and make it start, whether it wants to or not. Some cars can be pretty damned ornery in the morning, you have to put them in their place!

< Message edited by SixFootMaster -- 10/9/2007 1:51:14 AM >

(in reply to junecleaver)

RE: Forced consent - 10/9/2007 2:31:38 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

I've actually been contemplating consent within my own relationship. I basically gave him the right to do whatever he wants, which means I consented to a whole bunch of stuff implicitly that I honestly maybe didn't even think about? And I never agreed to obey him completely or to obey him at all. I agreed to become his property. Like a dog or cat or car, I don't always run the way he wants. Just because my car wouldn't start this morning doesn't diminish my possession of it.

Don't get me wrong---I enjoy obeying him and the consequences of disobedience are never pretty. Not to mention, doing things his way makes our relationship run so much smoother. Plus, who wants to be with someone who is disrespectful? Love and good dose of common sense are generally why I choose to obey. But...I don't consider disobedience breaking the original commitment I made to him.

So for me, consent and obedience are different and do not necessarily go hand in hand. I doubt that was what you were going for, but I'm at the end of my post and there you are.

I enjoyed your post, but I think you avoided the essential question. Let's say you were given an instruction and for your own reasons disobeyed, how would you feel and react if he took it upon himself to force your obedience - be it through manipulation, intimidation, physical force, the application of pain or punishment, et al, continued until you yielded and obeyed?

To take your car analogy - if you decided to get the toolkit out and make it start, whether it wants to or not. Some cars can be pretty damned ornery in the morning, you have to put them in their place!

Rather like junecleaver, when I became *owned* it was understood that I gave M the right to do *whatever he wants *. Obedience wasn't a requirement, as such, but accepting the consequences definitely were. In my relationship he can and will force until I yield.

agirl

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

RE: Forced consent - 10/9/2007 6:10:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

So where does consent begin for you? Is it always there once you begin the relationship? Does it begin the first time you consent to an activity and then continue throughout the length of the relationship? Or does it begin anew each time an activity is started?

When I consent to having sex the first time, that doesn't mean I automatically consent to having sex any time they feel like it. I can still withdraw consent for sex by saying "No, don't feel like it. Use your hand". However, I can also give blanket consent, which is what Valyraen has. He can use me just about any damn time he feels like it. I don't give blanket consent right away.

That said.... Valyraen would never actually force me to have sex. If he actually had to force me, if it wasn't just a little game we were playing, I can't imagine he would have any interest in continuing with me. Real threats do not have a place in our relationship.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to xoxi)

RE: Forced consent - 10/9/2007 6:14:48 AM

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The fact that you are allowing the activities is consent in itself. It may not be legal consent, but it is an unspoken consent because you can walk away from the relationship at any time.
If you are married, then it is a totally different issue. It would be considered abuse. It also gives you power to scream one day abuse to your partner. In my opinion, consent is consent.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)

RE: Forced consent - 10/9/2007 6:25:05 AM

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From: North Carolina
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In our relationship consent was given when I became owned by him. We play within his limits , which became mine once I was collared. We have very similar interests and turn offs so needing to consent to every activity has never been an issue. We discuss things alot and the final decision is always his but he likes to see what I think about it. Thats what works for us and has worked for us for a long time.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 10/9/2007 6:26:17 AM >

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RE: Forced consent - 10/9/2007 6:48:20 AM

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Master has my consent for me it was given for life as long as it stays out of my hard limits. If Master wants to try something we never did before then he would ask for consent. Other than that he know he has my complete trust and consent.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

RE: Forced consent - 10/9/2007 7:06:46 PM

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From: Australia
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The day my Master collared me was the day I gave my consent. He sat on a chair and i kneeling at his feet, He said to me from this day forward do you submit your will, your mind and body to me, to take and do what ever i want with it providing i keep you from harm, to protect, guide and to teach you and love you. He also said there are things i will do to you , you may not like or want but if you accept my collar then these things you must accept. I gave my consent with a solid "yes Master', from that day forward the bond had been sealed. There are days i dont feel like scening, having sex or even cleaning the house but i know he has the right to take what he wants, with or without my consent, to do whatever because ive already given it...and yes i absolutely love it too its a turn on for me to be just taken whenever he feels like it.
But in saying that he also told me that day, that for what ever reason i am no longer happy with what we have between us i can go to him for release and it shall be granted.

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(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)

RE: Forced consent - 10/10/2007 6:00:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster
I enjoyed your post, but I think you avoided the essential question. Let's say you were given an instruction and for your own reasons disobeyed, how would you feel and react if he took it upon himself to force your obedience - be it through manipulation, intimidation, physical force, the application of pain or punishment, et al, continued until you yielded and obeyed?

To take your car analogy - if you decided to get the toolkit out and make it start, whether it wants to or not. Some cars can be pretty damned ornery in the morning, you have to put them in their place!

Pissed off, turned on, and loved.

I accept that he has the right to do what he wants. And I consented to anything/everything at the beginning of the relationship. Hope that makes it more clear.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

RE: Forced consent - 10/10/2007 6:11:03 PM

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Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Memphis
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for me it depends. if i am only playing with someone then the consent is based on each play session unless i really get to a level that we feel it is not required. Each time i play at the club we discuss everything in detail first and i either accept or reject certain things. However if i am submitting to someone LTR then the consent is giving until She decides she no longer wants it.

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)

RE: Forced consent - 10/10/2007 8:15:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

Pissed off, turned on, and loved.

And what better way to start the day?

(in reply to junecleaver)

RE: Forced consent - 10/12/2007 11:37:32 AM

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From: Leeds, UK
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matching a lot what people have said before ... it differs from situation or relatioship

generally .. if i am committed enough to feel i "belong" to a Dom then i will have negotiated a degree of consent and limit with him anything in that is fair game for him .. whatever my short term wishes or wants

occassionally i might negotiate a conditional or temporary consent for something (for instance i once consented to needle play even though its actually a limit for me) after that particular timespan - it was just an evening worth of being together - we returned again to the situation were he did not have my consent to do that.

Now if i was in an Ms relationship, i would have negotiated (and this is just my terms of negotiation and am sure that mnay would not chose them for themselves) certain hard limits .. and made in miunte detail all other limits and prefereces very very very clear. As long as my Master stayed within those hard limits he has my pre-arranged and freely given consent to all his wants and desires regardless of my short term ones.

but that is just how it works for me

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(in reply to SixFootMaster)

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