RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (Full Version)

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MstrssPassion -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/14/2005 6:20:56 AM)

(This is not really a reply to anyone who has posted to this topic, so I am replying to the OP LadySonelle)

The blackmail fantasy is not as uncommon as one might think. I have had many submissive present this form of control many times. I agree that it is delicate dance & one that is not easy to choreograph.

From my own experience it seems to be a fetish found more often with male submissives.

I personally find it to be a conflict in ethics & have decided to not engage in this form of play. My practice is based on consent & trust. I also follow a rule of never purposely outing anyone.








Morgaine289 -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/14/2005 10:50:47 AM)

Concerning Blackmail not of the consensual kind i renember a friend of mine. He went to a woman to her apartment, after they came to know each other on a telephone dating line. She told him, that she will open the door to her flat and that he have to undress in the hall and use the blindfold she would lay there. He did as instructed, she took him in a room in her apartment and they had some SM. Then suddenly she started to take photos. She then told him, that she will have this photos and can blackmail him, if she want to.

He had then to go back into the hall, take the blindfold down and dress again.

He never saw her. And he described his feelings concerning the possible blackmail as fear inducing but on the other hand as very arousing.





JohnWarren -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/14/2005 11:53:43 AM)

I've done that sort of scene and see it as a way to create the illusion of nonconsent with the frisson of fear that the situation really is out of the control of the submissive.

Naturally going through with the blackmail would not be ethical, but the submissive can get off on the idea that it really could happen.

With the right partner, it can be a very hot scene.




ExistentialSteel -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/14/2005 12:04:53 PM)

Sure, blackmail is a common D/s theme. I find it kind of hokey, though...either they believe you will do it or they don't. I don't want a single soul thinking I will blackmail um.




JohnWarren -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/14/2005 2:01:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

Sure, blackmail is a common D/s theme. I find it kind of hokey, though...either they believe you will do it or they don't. I don't want a single soul thinking I will blackmail um.


I'll just quote a lady "You looked so much nicer before I was tied up."




LadySonelle -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/15/2005 8:51:19 AM)

I'm pleased to see this thread still around. Since I've finally gotten My domain (which, of course I can't post here) I've been expanding My interests. I do find blackmail terribly exciting to consider. What particularly exercises My ingenuity is that when I was in nursing, I took the Nursing and Hippocratic Oaths. I firmly believe (since I was Asatru for 18 years) that an oath is lifelong. Therefor, I am still bound NOT to cause irreversible damage to consenting persons (or any at all, to NONconsenting ones!). So how can I blackmail a slave? L)\\

Well, it isn't easy! But again, quite often it is the **threat** of the deed, rather than the reality that drives the fetish. One thing I very much enjoy is "kidding on the square" when I am with a sub or slave. We will be out in public, the sub with panties on under his clothing, and I might make some offhand remark to a casino dealer, cashier, passer-by "Don't you think that all guys should wear silk?" In itself it's an innocuous comment, but My sub is writhing in embarrassment because now the conversational door is open! If he is wearing a humiliation-pin (whenever My subs have fetish gear on underneath, they are commanded to wear a feminine pin on the outer garment), the topic can get even more interesting!

As for the harder edged blackmail, pictures, letters etc, I have not yet "gone there" because I have yet to find a slave that I trust to trust Me! I require someone whit good nerves and the ability to understand *exactly* where the edges (his and Mine) are! When I find that slave, I shall enjoy him to the fullest and we will see, together, how hot we can make it WITHOUT permanent damage!

I have yet to add a blackmail page to My domain, but I am adding features almost every day! Next up, I think, is either the Humiliation Page or Whip Of The Week (depending on photography schedules).

Lady Sonelle





Wolfie648 -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/15/2005 12:31:17 PM)

quote:

It's a contradiction in terms.


Not until it gets to "Non-consensual consensual blackmail".

Then the peanut butter comes out.

D (owner of j)




kissez4usub -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (8/3/2007 6:24:57 PM)

I have a slave here from PA. I was told by several mistresses that he's a time waster and I should steer clear.. being the smart one that I am, I figured I'd toy with him a little, he enjoys fetish blackmail.

After one payment, and a couple of scared IMs, he messages me tonight and tells me that he's told his wife the whole story and that he no longer wants to be blackmailed by me. He said that if I continue this charade then he will turn his IM logs over to the FBI. I have come to understand that this is not the first time he has done this, so fellow dommes.. stay clear of this asshole. I am not scared, but he uses this ploy to seek out dommes, get his rocks off and then play the felony card to escape. I've spoken to my lawyer and he cautions me that while the area of fetish blackmail is touchy, I should avoid any misrepresentations of myself as a domme.

Just putting the word out. I fear putting his email on this site, but he has a membership here. He loves to tell the mistress that he hates himself for these thoughts, but its a part of him that will never forget; he's had extensive experience in fetish/consensual blackmail; his wife does not know of his addiction but he is thinking about therapy. His MO is the same, but I was silly to think I could manipulate him nonetheless. The law is the law and as Lady Sonelle said earlier, blackmail is illegal and can put some legal pressure on the domme. I've washed my hands of him, but until he plays his game on someone else, be warned. He's nothing but trouble.




slave4lifejohn -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/28/2009 9:09:17 PM)

Some one i know commited suicide because an consensual blackmail "game" that was played here.
I miss my frend.
So can anyone explain me how funny this "game" is?




DesFIP -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/29/2009 11:58:43 AM)

It is unethical to involve anyone else who is unknowing in your kink. Not only does your blackmail victim stand to lose contact with his children, they stand to lose a parent.
He loses a friend, but the friend loses him.

And so on.

You need to ask all these third parties if they want to know about your kinky sex life and respect them if they say no.




Acer49 -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/29/2009 1:31:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySonelle

Just thought I'd add My opinions on involving third parties in the BDSM discipline of Consensual Blackmail.

To enter into such play requires the utmost trust on the part of the consenting blackmailee and the utmost dedication to ETHICS on the part of the blackmailer, the Mistress or Master. This is edgeplay of the highest order and carries potential for severe harm from embarrassment through loss of livlihood, depression, to potential suicide! It is DANGEROUS unless handled like the dynamite it is.

The threat of "exposure" is the kick in the scene, the danger that drives the submissive. Whether it's a "confession letter" a photograph (or several) in dresses, fetish attire, bondage, etc or simply the information that the person is a submissive and is playing with a Mistress.

The danger is to the Mistress equally, in that blackmail is illegal and if the submissive turns on the mistress, can send her to jail! Trust must exist on both sides.

I feel that involving others in the Mistress / slave consensual blackmailing dyad is difficult to do, but not impossible. Each person has several circles of people they know, from next-of-kin to strangers.

The closest circle includes parents, spouses, children, siblings. This inner circle has the most "stake" in the central person. They love and/or depend on the central person. They have an emotional and probably physical connection. Involving *them* in blackmail is not consensual (unless specific consent is given BY the third party!). Their reaction is likely to be shock, profound unhappiness and estrangement from the blackmailee. The blackmailee stands to lose a major portion of their life and emotional support.

The second circle is friends. Some ex-lovers or ex-spouses etc. They have some emotional ties and involving them in consensual blackmail is a greyer area. Their reaction would tend to be shock, possibly anger, some laughter possibly ridicule. The blackmailee stands to be severely embarrassed and possibly lose a portion of emotional support.

The third circle out from the center includes business associates, co=workers, bosses, employees, acquaintances. They have little emotional stake in the central person and have less to lose if involved in consensual blackmail. Their reactions tend to be shock, some laughter, ridicule and possibly even joining in with the blackmailer in the fun. The blackmailee stands to lose employment and also to lose status and be publicly embarrassed.

The final circle is the public at large. Unless the blackmailee is a famous figure, they are far less likely to suffer emotional harm, although embarrassment carries its own pain. The public's reaction ranges from laughter to outright echoing the sordid details to others. The blackmailee suffers embarrassment and humiliation.

While I will not involve the first circle of persons (unless given explicit permission BY that person!) the second third and fourth circles are (depending on circumstances) fair game!

Anyone else have ideas on this topic?

Lady Sonelle


It would seem theat the blackmailer has more to lose then the blackmailee, for if he or she does indeed send the information out, they have taken it from roleplying fantasy to reality and while the blackmailee may suffer some of the events as suggested, the blackmailer would face not only legal sanctions but also civil ones as well.




kanina -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/29/2009 1:54:59 PM)

the only thing i did in this field was that Owner took some pics and he said he was going to send them to a friend of mine (and he obviously did not), i enjoyed very much the play, and of course as i trust him i knew he would not put me in dangour [:)] 




Underumam -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/29/2009 4:19:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yeah, I know, but it's still a contradiction in terms. Blackmail is blackmail. If it's consensual, it's not blackmail. It's play blackmail.


I concur.......




LafayetteLady -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/29/2009 6:21:23 PM)

LadySonelle,

You have openly admitted that if the slave you were blackmailing didn't do as he was told, you would contact those in the "outer" circles, which apparently only exclude family members, but include co-workers, bosses, etc. and how often they like to join in on the fun. I'm sorry, but this is absolutely abhorrent behavior. You risk this person's livlihood and reputation by outing them and there is absolutely no excuse or "all in fun and games" to it. It's deplorable that you should even consider such a thing. While the whole "consensual blackmail" thing is definately not for me, if I ever were to partake in this activity and the "blackmailer" decided to tell my employer or co-workers, that blackmailer would find themselves in a whole lot of hot water, not from the law but from the wrath of a very angry person who just had the lives torn upside down all so you could get your jollies. SO NOT COOL.




thishereboi -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/30/2009 5:50:56 AM)

If I trusted someone enough to give them that kind of information, then I would also know that they are not going to do anything that would hurt me. So I would know that they would never really sent the info to anyone. If I could not trust them not to send it, then I would not be with them in the first place.




thishereboi -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/30/2009 5:57:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySonelle

But then in regular BDSM isn't the threat always there that a top will beat a bottom beyond his limits?
Not really, I make sure I know who I am playing with and trust them not to go to far.

When a person is in bondage, it is always a life threatening situation... only the attention of both parties to safety lkeeps the play from getting dangerous.
I've been in bondage a lot of times and never felt I was in a life threatening situation. Now maybe if they had put a rope around my neck and left me alone, but as I said before, I make sure I know who I am playing with and make sure they know what they are doing.





thishereboi -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/30/2009 5:59:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
But aren't people submissive or a slave due to a deep and abiding desire to serve?

Ultimately sure. That doesn't mean we don't also love to be "forced" and manipulated into it as well.

quote:

As to the Mistress/Master/Domme/Dom doing the "blackmail"; actually outting someone to their family or anyone else is so cruel and does carry a risk of legal proceedings. What about the wants/needs/desires of the people in the "three circles" whose lives will be affected if the sbmissive or slave is "outted", especially with photographs?

Yes, that really makes it intense and scary doesn't it?



I was all excited when I saw this, cause I thought LA was back....then I looked at the date on the post.




agirl -> RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. (11/30/2009 6:16:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slave4lifejohn

Some one i know commited suicide because an consensual blackmail "game" that was played here.
I miss my frend.
So can anyone explain me how funny this "game" is?


It is for some people. A consentual game isn't inherently bad........ Some players in the *game* haven't got a good enough grasp of it to do it *simply for fun*......aren't sufficiently robust to cope with putting themselves in a vulnerable position.

You can take care....but you can't necessarily cover someone being mentally unstable enough to kill themselves. Very few people start a game of this kind with the idea that the other person might end their lives over it.

It's horribly sad........but there are  people that can cope and enjoy this kind of thing .....and people that aren't equipped to, yet still get involved in it. Just like many edgy activities,  there are two people involved in the agreement to proceed.

agirl










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