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Always There - 10/12/2007 5:29:38 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		For the record, this is not a commentary on anything going on with me right now. All is fine right now.

One of the things that has always been difficult for me as a service submissive is that most of us sincere ones fall into the category of "always there", which probably needs some explanation. Imagine yourself as a dominant woman. You have this service submissive who is loyal and will do practically everything you ask/tell him or her, and this goes on for awhile. Two sorts of things often happen that make it an interesting situation.

1. Proximity of finding what you are seeking (the sincere submissive already in your grasp) makes you feel that perhaps it might be easy to find someone just like that submissive but with extra bells and whistles. Maybe the next one is more attractive, wealthier, a different gender or whatever. So, you start going back out and exploring the multitudes of submissives out there, knowing that the statistics indicate that the odds are better for you finding what you are seeking rather than not finding what you are seeking. So, you find that more attractive one, bring him into your midst, and on the surface, it looks like you found what you were seeking. Then after a few months of fooling you, he or she reveals that he or she is not really exactly what you were seeking but was playing along in hopes of interjecting his or her personal fantasies (which don't fit the service paradigm you imagined). So you dump this new submissive to the road. And then you realize that the one who was what you were seeking is gone, and you kind of missed it while you were having so much fun with the one that was going to replace him or her.

2. When this service submissive comes into your life, you take complete advantage of him or her, and everything seems to be going all right. But you're a busy woman. You have lots of things on your dance card, so you continue doing what you're doing, and you're completely in bliss because you have this person who cooks, cleans and does everything else you desire. This gives you lots and lots of more time that you really didn't have before because you were more self-sufficient in the past, so you start to get out there in the scene even more. You attract many more players, and your dance card is filled even further. Then out of nowhere, you come home one day and the service submissive has been snatched up by another woman. And you never even suspected there was anything wrong. Oh sure, you heard him griping a bit about never seeing you, but you allowed him to show up and clean, even though you had to run off and attend a party, so "would it be okay if you locked up on your way out?" and other such things. You could trust him; I mean, he's been your dedicated house slave for months, if not years. But then he's gone, and you have no idea why. Obviously, he was not a "true" service submissive. Now you'll just have to look for another, or not look for one at all because the last one was obviously too much of a bother; I mean, he left without a warning.

What both scenarios actually signify is a sense that the service submissive is always going to be there, and if he's not, he's easily replaceable. Anyway, I've observed this a lot over the years, both with myself and with those around me. Yet, I keep seeing the exact same things happening no matter how much experience those in the scene have.

Anyway, just a thought for a Friday evening.

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RE: Always There - 10/12/2007 6:20:01 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Thanks for another thought provoking scenario.

Finding a genuine service slave/submissive is phenomenally difficult, and I would imagine that anyone who found one would want him/her to be there forever.  Well, what would it take to do that?  If the house slave is supposedly there to SERVE (as opposed to the mulititudes who will happily "clean" if I am dressed in some flash gear and he is naked).  Molly Maids get paid.  What does the house slave need besides appreciation?

NO sarcasm is meant here, I am genuinely interested.  In America we really don't have that history of domestic service a la Gosford Park.  A house slave is taking on that role really without that ingrained sense of social class and "born to serve" that past generations had in Europe.  How do you keep an American house slave happy?

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RE: Always There - 10/12/2007 6:53:16 PM   
AFlyInYourWeb


Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

What both scenarios actually signify is a sense that the service submissive is always going to be there, and if he's not, he's easily replaceable. Anyway, I've observed this a lot over the years, both with myself and with those around me. Yet, I keep seeing the exact same things happening no matter how much experience those in the scene have.



When I read this, I remember hearing the same complaint about ex-husbands from divorced women, especially those who took the "mommy track" or were full-time home makers.  They felt taken for granted, taken advantage of, emotionally abandoned.  The word "invisible" crops up more times than not. It usually ends up with ex-hubby re-marrying someone younger....

The outcomes you postulate are not about gender or D/s.  It is about people.  Some are just selfish.  

Just as there are husbands who do appreciate their wives, there are Dommes who will appreciate you.

Good luck in finding her. 

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RE: Always There - 10/12/2007 7:38:51 PM   
spinntja


Posts: 31
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		I have caught myself doing just this. In fact, I catch myself at it on a regular basis. Exceptional service is very nearly invisible, and it takes days, not weeks, to forget how much effort is going into it. For this exact reason, I send my girl away on vacation every few weeks. It's become something of a household joke that the best thing about her vacation is coming home to a greatly diminished set of expectations. Now, if only I had *more* service submissives... ;-)

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RE: Always There - 10/12/2007 7:52:13 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline 		Well, i hope you at least grabbed some nice jewelry or electronics on your way out as compensation for your time 

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RE: Always There - 10/13/2007 10:41:54 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think with every human relationship we need to work (we meaning every person in that dynamic) to maintain it. That means interacting on some level.

If the service sub were a hired servant or worker, you'd pay them a wage, right? So at least you'd interact once a week or month to make out that check or perhaps leave 'to do' lists.

With a service sub though we should not forget that we need to provide something other than money for his/her service. I think feedback at a minimum is required. Negotiation on other requires should be done per relationship.

Ideally this would be on a daily basis I think -- a check in at the start of the day or a review at the end of the day. Hopefully someone is still polite as a dominant so you say "thanks" or "good job" when you notice it but then again an excellent service sub or slave may work without drawing much attention.

That can help create a problem where feedback gets ignored or falls to the wayside. So I think I would want an established pattern of check ins or reviews worked into any service dynamic I had. Establishing this pattern though needs to be the result of input from all parties -- just waiting for the dominant to set things up is being far too passive in my opinion.

I think that if you set up this pattern of feedback and review you might avoid the two dynamics described in the OP. Or at least I think it would greatly help me to avoid the two situations.

_____________________________

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RE: Always There - 10/13/2007 11:10:18 AM   
softpjOS


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		littlesarbonn
 
A little deep for a friday night don't ya think?  I mean really, everyone is trying to get ready for the weekend..thinking that hard could hurt some of us.  lol  (thats why i waited till saturday )
 
I think your post raises some interesting points for both sides. 

If the service submissive is only seeking to serve and not stating they expect ______ in exchange for said service, can the Dominant be held responsible for not providing "more"?  I mean, if the sub says they are seeking only to provide a service, are not looking for a relationship or play.. ONLY TO SERVE..... *shrugs*  Don't see how the Dominant could be considered taking advantage or not living up to some expecation the sub may have.  The service submissive is stating they get what they "need" by providing a service.  Does the Dominant not provide what they need by accepting that service?  I mean, the Dominant could say, no... Don't come over this week, I don't need you.  By accepting the service, the Dominant is in fact giving the submissive what they stated they need/want.  At least thats how I'm seeing this. 
 
Personally I would not be interested in this type of relationship even though I consider myself to be very service oriented.  Yes, I get a very warm fuzzy feeling from providing my Mistress with excellent service.  Regardless of it being doing Her laundry, cleaning Her house, detailing Her car (ICK!!), cooking, running errands, doing office work, being Her toy for play or sex, or just listening when She needs an ear... I see every aspect of my role as service to Her.  And yes, from time to time I may feel a little forgotten or pushed aside due to life/reality.  But instead of sulking and allowing myself to feel unappreciated I try to find time to sit down and talk to Her about what I am feeling.  Sometimes She doesn't "hear" what I am saying and I need to try a different approach.  Communication is only as clear as the perception of the person listening. If they aren't "hearing you"...... change how you are stating it. 
 
In both senerios you presented, I see lack of communication on the submissives part.  Perhaps the submissive thought they would be satisfied with simply providing a service and over time discovered they needed something in exchange for that service?  Perhaps they wanted to serve a more demanding Dominant, felt they were not being challenged by the tasks being presented? Or deep down they wanted more of a relationship and thought that by providing service the Dominant would see them as worthy of more time or attention?  In either case, it was the communication breakdown on the part of the submissive for not clearly communicating their needs/expectations within the relationship. 
 
As for the wife feeling unappreciated.  Been there, complained about that.  But ultimately it was me making myself miserable, not my husbands fault for not "seeing" how he was "treating me".  It was strictly my perception that was a bit warped and sitting him down and talking about it would have probably had the same results as me "going on strike" ...without all the drama and raised voices. 
 
Please don't take this wrong but I truly don't see where anyone could remain 100% happy in a service only situtation.  There has to be something that "shows" / "proves" the Dominant is appreciative of the service being provided.  Be it payment, exchange of service, being taken out to lunch on occasion, small tokens/gifts... which in my opinion proves that it's not just about providing a service..... there IS "payment" of some sort expected. 
 
Just my thoughts on this, not intended to put down or dismiss/discredit anyones roles...
 
pj
 
edited to add:  Yes, even though I do considered myself service oriented.. I do have needs above feeling "useful"/providing service and I was very clear in communicating that to my Mistress from the start.  As time has passed, those needs and expectations have changed and we've sat down and discussed it.  I'm getting better at letting Her know if I'm feeling a bit shoved aside, and She's getting better at recognizing those little quirks of mine that say... something may be amiss here.  It's a learning curve for everyone :)
 

< Message edited by softpjOS -- 10/13/2007 11:46:15 AM >

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RE: Always There - 10/13/2007 3:46:35 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I've always judged a Dom/Domme by the way they treat their dog.
 
A friend of mine told me she hopes that if there is reincarnation, she could come back as one of my dogs :)

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Always There - 10/13/2007 5:19:19 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I think this is a commentary on relationships in general and how people deal with them, not just d/s ones.  There are many that will keep "the sure thing" around while still searching for "the exciting and new thing."  One would hope that as people mature they learn that the sure thing can be the exciting and new thing if you just appreciate it and foster it.  However, some people never grow up.  Don't be the sure thing for those ones.
This sounds very frustrating for you.  I'm sorry.
l

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RE: Always There - 10/14/2007 4:59:22 AM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

LadyHibiscus wrote: In America we really don't have that history of domestic service a la Gosford Park.  A house slave is taking on that role really without that ingrained sense of social class and "born to serve" that past generations had in Europe.

I'm really not sure what you mean by that on several different levels.  In what way does the US not have the history of domestic service?  Did ultra-wealthy Americans a hundred years ago do their own cooking, washing, child-minding and so on?  Do they today?  The only difference I can imagine is that, in an ultra-wealthy English house in the past, the servants would live in the house itself, which they probably don't any more.

As far as I can see, there are two reason for the death of this way of life: technology and inheritance tax.  Technology (dishwashers, washing machines, central heating) means that you don't need anything like the same number of servants; inheritance tax means you can't afford anything like the same number of servants.  The present owners of the houses are forced to effectively run them as museums and live in one corner because most of the money in the family has been eaten up by inheritance tax based on the value of the house.  If they still had the money, they'd probably still be employing a large number of servants: look at the queen, for example.  Eventually, the money runs out completely and the house gets sold and, often, converted into a corporate HQ or similar.  (See, for example, IBM's Hursley Park, near Winchester in England.)

And I really don't see what you mean by the sense of being "born to serve" of earlier generations in Europe.  That sounds to me like romanticization.  As far as I can see, the poor did the bidding of the rich not out of any sense of duty but from necessity and inevitability: it was the only way to make enough money to live.  So, if you were born poor, you almost certainly died poor; if you were born rich, you almost certainly died rich.  But that's the same the world over, even today.

Even if there was this sense of being "born to serve" in past generations, that was in the past so I don't see how it's relevant to somebody being a service sub today.  Why is the English service sub more inspired by Gosford Park and the likes than the American service sub?  It's just something learnt from books and films in either case.

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RE: Always There - 10/14/2007 8:51:52 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		A thanks, littlesarbonn, for another very thought provoking post.  Personally, I can see how this can potentially happen, especially in the area of being a service submissive.  I don't know if I would especially put it in the same phrasing of "being taken advantage of".  However, I can very easily understand the position of "being taken for granted".  In honesty, that can happen with anyone, but it is easily understood how it might be a pitfall to watch out for.
 
In a sense, the post is also a good reminder of how important it is to convey when needs and wants aren't being met.  Obviously, in both the examples given, the needs and wants of the submissive in question aren't being fulfilled.  It was the means to an end in both scenerios. 
 
I really have no advice to offer to these thoughts from a Friday evening, except maybe to say that this might be something to watch for.  Perhaps think about ways to avoid the examples given by possibly keeping communication skills effective. 

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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RE: Always There - 10/14/2007 9:51:45 AM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Wonderful post littlesarbonn!

Many people do not realize they had a good thing, until it is gone.
I also would like to say that many submissives, sometimes do not realize
they had a great Dominant woman, until she is gone.
It is easy to walk away from a good Dominant woman, and not so easy to
find another one.
Everyone on both sides of D/s coin, should cherish and value a good relationship,
before they carelessly through it away. 

< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/14/2007 9:54:56 AM >

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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


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RE: Always There - 10/14/2007 10:51:41 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		A sincere submissive is one ball sac short of being a "chump."    Chumps are guys in high school and college that are led on by the popular girls over and over again and always put in the "friend" category and keep wondering why they can't romantically date women, instead of being everone's buddy and shoulder to cry on. 

Service submissives that do not stand up for themselves and clearly state their expectations and needs are setting themselves up to be chumps over and over again.  They are also easily replacable, because so many submissive men ARE chumps.  If a woman wants free labor and cleaning, she can dangle the carrot of "maybe" hooking up with them "some day" and they will stick around.  They also feel some sense of self esteem because like the chumps in high school, they do feel needed -- when she wants to complain about the guy she is dating, and say "I wish more guys were like you, chump!" (affectionate kiss on cheek).

The only way to break this cycle for service submissives is to stop doing it.  Stop promoting themselves as low maintenance, different, unique.  Have romantic, passionate and sensual expectations and if things aren't moving in that direction, bail.  Have romantic needs and expectations, don't be a shoulder to cry on, don't be the guy who is always there, and don't listen to the propaganda of all the women in the sewing circle saying, "oh you are SO sweet!  I wish more guys were like you!" -- they would DATE you romantically if they felt that way.  They are saying that because they see you as a chump.  They would want you as a friend, but nothing more, because it's a safe, easy, fulfilling friendship - he does all the work and you don't have to have sex with him or even pay attention to him for that matter.

Most importantly, service submissive should not "settle" because service submission is "all" they can get.  Hell, even vanilla dating is better than being taken advantage of.  Unfortunately, I think they have a STRONGER need for affirmation, belonging, and being NEEDED than they do for orgasms, intimate kissing or feeling a woman up - so if they had to choose between spotty dating with fast women or cleaning floors for a pat on the head and then watching his femdom dream go off to play with other men, he will take the latter.  This is the definition of  chump.

Akasha

< Message edited by AAkasha -- 10/14/2007 10:54:45 AM >

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RE: Always There - 10/14/2007 9:57:04 PM   
needDomme


Posts: 115
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Very interesting observation AAkasha. I wonder what percentage of subs fall into this category. If they know this is what they're getting into, then I guess it's all right.

need

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RE: Always There - 10/14/2007 10:50:38 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline 		Now there's a bulls-eye if I ever saw one!

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RE: Always There - 10/16/2007 12:04:13 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
What does the house slave need besides appreciation?


I think the answer to that question depends on what motivates the house slave in question to provide service. To have a service relationship sustain, I think these motivations need to feel fulfilled.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Always There - 10/16/2007 12:08:38 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
If a woman wants free labor and cleaning, she can dangle the carrot of "maybe" hooking up with them "some day" and they will stick around.  They also feel some sense of self esteem because like the chumps in high school, they do feel needed -- when she wants to complain about the guy she is dating, and say "I wish more guys were like you, chump!" (affectionate kiss on cheek).


While your perspective might apply to some service submissives, I think it covers only a slice. Your perspective assumes service is only provided to appease for broader attention whereas I think each submissive has a subjective combination of multiple reasons to provide service.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Always There - 10/18/2007 2:53:20 PM   
youngsubgeoff


Posts: 900
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: The Asylum
Status: offline 		I think the worst thing you could do to any human being is ignore them. There is no faster way to make them feel worthless.

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Profile   Post #: 18
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