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Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 5:00:32 AM   
OnyxDelphi


Posts: 138
Joined: 5/30/2007
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I have heard many different theories on this subject, so I've come here to ask a question that seems to be slightly "touchy."

What is the social etiquette for falling in love with your Dom/Sub/Master/Slave.

Is it wrong, should there be a fine line?  What do you do if you're not in love and the other one is?

Is it wrong, is it right...and more importantly...what do you do?

-Master Fiik

"I'm the Only One" - Melissa Ethridge
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 6:14:32 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
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There isn't an etiquette for falling in love with the person your in a relationship with. Some people do and some people don't. It is niether wrong to do so nor is it wrong not to do so. What to do if one does fall and the other doesn't is upto the two in the relationship. For some, it is a hard limit and there by, the relationship will end. For others, they simply deal with it.

Personally, I'm of the type that I don't have to love the one I am master to. But I don't make it a limit in my relationships either. Hell, the slave falling for the master is almost to be expected. But if it does, it does. And if it doesn't then it doesn't. Either way, nothing really changes in my relationship.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to OnyxDelphi)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 6:19:41 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OnyxDelphi

I have heard many different theories on this subject, so I've come here to ask a question that seems to be slightly "touchy."

What is the social etiquette for falling in love with your Dom/Sub/Master/Slave.

Is it wrong, should there be a fine line?  What do you do if you're not in love and the other one is?

Is it wrong, is it right...and more importantly...what do you do?

-Master Fiik

"I'm the Only One" - Melissa Ethridge


I have to agree with what MrDiscipline44 said. There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to emotions.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to OnyxDelphi)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 7:06:19 AM   
michelleryder


Posts: 198
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline
I can't see why being a master/dom or sub/slave makes you any more loveable or unloveable. It either happens or it doesn't simple as that.

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 7:45:32 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
Human beings are not robots. Feelings cannot be programmed in or prevented from appearing.

No etiquette. These are relationships just like any other. Sometimes people’s heart’s race at different speeds or what was agreed to, say a casual thing, just stops working for one or all of the people involved and then communication and decisions need to be made.

Can you put a right or wrong to things, of course. If it was to be just casual and someone falls, then of course a finger can be pointed but does not change the reality of it.



< Message edited by toservez -- 10/15/2007 7:46:12 AM >


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to OnyxDelphi)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 7:47:46 AM   
laurell3


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yup, ditto with what everyone said so far.

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 9:36:37 AM   
peppermint


Posts: 5159
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
Feelings are neither right or wrong....they just are.  There is no etiquette as to how or when feelings for another person come into play. 

(in reply to OnyxDelphi)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 9:59:31 AM   
ManOfAdventures


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/11/2007
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
Just about every Dom sub / slave relationship is going to be different on this subject. So I can only give you what My personal thoughts are, which will of course not apply to everyone.

sub vs. slave

For Me, Love is a step on the way to ownership. she’ll enter the relationship as My sub and if she and I are very lucky, and complete submission is achieved; she’ll evolve into My slave, through the path of Love. she cannot possibly fully submit to me until after she Loves me.
In the context I’m presenting here it is quite possible for a sub not to Love her Dom, because the sub is not fully owned, so Love is not required. This is particularly true in the context of play when neither the Dom nor the sub are actually in a relationship together per se.
Similarly, one cannot enter a relationship as a slave, because they cannot enter the relationship in Love with their Dom. Slavery comes after Love, and quite likely it comes LONG after; it is only with full submission of the slave does the Dom become her Master.
Let me explain…
 
Defining Love

Love is difficult to define. It could be for:

·         Someone (platonic or otherwise): spouse, girlfriend, parent, child, pet..
·         Something: car, sports team, Milano Blahnik shoes…
·         Some action: dancing, spanking…
·         Divinity: God, religion…

So the concept of Love varies with its context. There are more categories but assume this is romantic Love. (Incidentally I am going to sidestep a discussion of whether a sub / slave is someone or something – that is a whole other post)
For convenience I’m going to use the first line of Wikipedia’s Love definition that they purportedly lifted from the Oxford Dictionary (If it is on the Internet it must be true after all):
 
“Love is an intense feeling of affection related to a sense of strong loyalty or profound oneness.”
 
ALL of this needs to be there in My slave, and indeed in Me if I am to be her Master.
 
Intensity

her feelings for me must be intense. she must get butterflies when I touch her, the hairs on her arm should stand up on end when I whisper into her ear. I should feel that she’s the only woman on earth. My mind should be filled with thoughts of her.
 
Affection

Again this requires a definition.  Incidentally, using the work of others is an occupational hazard; I’m in the late stages of completing My PhD. So with that in mind I’ll use Kory Floyd’s of Arizona State University:
 
“(Affection is) any behavior that is meant to convey appreciation, fondness, or Love, and is generally interpreted that way”
 
In a lot of ways this is what a sub / slave does when she serves Me. Whether she is doing something to please me physically, performing a ritual that excites me psychologically, or performing manual service to make My life easier.
 
I’m not a sadist, so I don’t get off on hurting My sub / slave physically. In My former vanilla life this meant that at one time I could never possibly imagine inflicting actual pain on My partner. But I started down a slippery slope when I spanked a woman I was with. she Loved it. It became part of our more intimate life.

I realized that it wasn’t about inflicting pain, it was about giving her what she needed for pleasure. I’ve since graduated well beyond spanking and can deliver pain to My sub / slave if it is bringing her a rush or getting her off, or fulfilling her in some way (same goes for a power exchange). It is done out of affection, not out of a need to hurt her, with the added benefit of the rush I get seeing her get off.

Similarly, when I’m training My sub / slave everything I'm doing is in our collective best interests (admittedly sacrificing hers for mine if they're in conflict). My sub / slave needs to know what I want if she’s to please Me, so the direction I give her is to affectionately further our relationship and make it stronger and better. My sub / slave never needs to worry that I would:

·         permanently mark or disfigure her, I would never make her less attractive to Me
·         endanger her, for it is My charge to protect her.
·         deprive her of education or culture, as this makes her more interesting to me

You get the idea…
 
Loyalty

Merriam-Webster says that fidelity is a synonym for loyalty. In the context of this kind of relationship I think that works. In My vanilla life I used to say that:

“Cheating is doing something behind your partner’s back that you would not do in front of them”.

It is not a bad starting point.

I know some Dom’s sell, lend out, or prostitute their subs. I’m not judging them, if that works for them, it is fine as it is “consensual nonconsensual”. If it is part of a dynamic that they both get off on, more power to them. But it is not Me and it is not what I want for My sub / slave, I would never want to share her with another man.

I would never stray. Yes I’ll flirt, and I’ll look at other women, but I would never act on it without My sub / slave being present. This is not because I would not have permission to do so, as her Dom / Master I can do whatever I like; this is a personal limitation I place on Myself.

This is not to say that another girl could not enter our dynamic, but in this instance the third party is for both her and I to enjoy. Ideally My sub / slave has brought this girl to me as a gift. My sub / slave can do so with the absolute confidence that she (My sub / slave) is still, and will always be, the most important girl in the room.
 
Oneness

The idea of oneness is the most difficult to reconcile in the context of a Dom sub / slave relationship: How can a Dom hold a position of power over His sub / slave if they are in fact one? But it is the relationship and the dynamic I refer to here, not the Dom or the sub / slave or some combination.

Call it halves of a whole, or something else, but it is the idea that My sub and I are one. For Me, oneness cannot occur in the absence of intensity, affection, and loyalty; although the previous three can all occur separately or in some combination. It is therefore oneness that brings the relationship into Love.

In play, you don’t need oneness (or intensity, affection, or loyalty for that matter) to put someone across a table and paddle them. But I want My relationship with My sub / slave to be for the long term. Over the course of that relationship she will learn how to please me and how to serve. she will become more and more skilled at these, and eventually be able to anticipate what to do. Similarly I’ll become more in tune with what motivates her and how to best provide for her needs.
 
Conclusion

Outside of mere play, a Dom sub / slave relationship only works for Me if there is trust and mutual respect. In early days My sub and I might playfully exchange the words Master or sub / slave, but only with the understanding that we’re trying them on for size and earning those titles as we grow together.

As the relationship progresses and grows with time she and I get to experience intensity and affection. I choose to be loyal to her, and she is loyal to me. I work at it, she works at it, and ideally oneness and Love are the result. From there the experience gained can evolve to ownership if complete submission is achieved. But until we passed through all those steps, she would not truly be My slave and I would not truly be her Master.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Falling In Love - 10/15/2007 12:53:40 PM   
biracalsub4wmDom


Posts: 109
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline
i hope it's not wrong....
i LOVE being IN LOVE.  mmmmmmmmm

_____________________________

blessings...

biracialsub

***Please respect that I am OWNED & not seeking a Master. Thank You***




(in reply to ManOfAdventures)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 12:50:31 PM   
subnstudent


Posts: 105
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline
Now, I've heard around that some people think falling in love is a weakness because then "you can't necessarily give the submissive/slave the discipline she needs" or possibly "then you care for them more than property, but that's all they really are". Something like that.

Personally I disagree with these statements and doubt that I would actively persue a relationships in which the Dominant believed this. However, that does not mean that it won't work for anybody; it just means that you have to decide for yourself, and if you love your Dom/Master, it doesn't necessarily mean that the feeling has to be or even will be reciprocated.

(in reply to biracalsub4wmDom)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 2:24:10 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline
Etiquette for falling in love? I didn't realize it was a voluntary process.

I don't see anything wrong with the idea of falling in love in a d/s relationship -- I couldn't have a long term relationship without love, it just wouldn't be worth the work.

(in reply to subnstudent)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 3:45:47 PM   
TakenPet


Posts: 147
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
Love is what it is.  You cannot stop it, you cannot expect it or not expect it.  There are no hard and fast rules on this topic, its really something you have to experience.  You can choose to accept it or not accept it.  It will not happen every time and it doesn't have to happen at all. 
Love depends on the people involved and I know it sounds trite, but truly it does. 
You do have to recognize the difference between infatuation and love, adoration and respect.  Its not always as easy as it seems. 
Now when one person feels love and the other one doesn't it can be tough for the one in love, but its like any other relationship, it can grow and develop or never happen, and its at that point where a choice is made, can you continue to love this person emotionally, respecting them, be with them physically and still maintain a D/s relationship?  Is it wrong for one not to love the other, not at all.  You do have to remember that these are people and emotions are part of the package really.  What happens with those emotions are up to you.  Just remember that there is a person attached to those emotions and its not easy to let go or reveal how you feel to someone and not have them return the emotions.  So whatever you decide to do or feel is best for your relationship is between the two of you.  Sometimes its easier to let go then to try to force something that isn't there.
Good luck 

(in reply to obis)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 4:08:27 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
Quick reply:

I don't think there is any etiquette on it. R told me he loved me for the first time this past weekend after 7 years and 8 months of belonging to him, so I can speak to the what if you fall and love and the other doesn't part..that was my life for about the past 6.5 years. Some days it was hard but I knew it wasn't something he was intentionally holding back, he just wasn't in love with me. Everything else was so incredible that it made it OK but I can say without a doubt that I have wanted to be loved more than anythng and it is everything I thought it would be :):):).



_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to TakenPet)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 7:06:06 PM   
octavia


Posts: 377
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline
Personally, falling in love is what Im lookng for.  Being in a D/s relationship doesnt change that.  I don't want to be in a relationship without being in love, that's why I left the 13 year vanilla marriage I was in.  I would hazzard to say that just as with so many other things, there are direct parallels to vanilla relationships.  Some vanilla want casual relationships, some want love.  Same goes here.
In my (almost) humble opinion,
oct

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 8:43:48 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
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If I didn't love my slave, I certainly wouldn't be interested in putting in the effort to be her Master. For me, I need that connection. 

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to octavia)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 9:06:22 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

If I didn't love my slave, I certainly wouldn't be interested in putting in the effort to be her Master. For me, I need that connection. 

Master says He totally agrees!  To have me here living with Him, serving Him 24/7 would not be something He would in any way desire if He didn't love me.  As you said, that's putting lots of effort into someone you have no love for.  Not something He would choose to do.............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Estring)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 9:24:33 PM   
eldervelvet


Posts: 21
Joined: 8/5/2007
Status: offline
It's not just the subs that are looking for the One. I am, too. Somewhere she's out there, and when I find her she won't get away.

(in reply to slaveluci)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 10:12:01 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
I can not wrap my head around how falling in love with someone you will possibly be sexualy binded with as a bad thing. *shrugs* As everyone else said there is no right or wrong.. No Miss Manners of you do or do not fall in love with your sub/slave/Dom/mme. Once the heart is engaged in it.. well... there is naught you can do but deny what you actualy feel, and that is just plain bad for you and the other party.

Personaly I was not actively looking to fall head over heels for a submissive.. esp in the situation I found myself in. But alas.. here I am. Beyond smitten, stupid, crazy, life alteringly in love.

I would walk through Hell in a gasoline G string for him. *chuckles*

Love doesnt have to make sense.. it generaly doesnt. But it is grand none the less.

If you always hold back your heart a woman will sense it, and will not fully be capable of truly submitting herself. Most of us need that emotional link, and need to be more then a play toy, or arm candy. ( not saying this is your intent... just how some women preceive it after a while with no emotion. )

Good luck to you both, and too all those out there still looking for thier loves.

Gwyn,
So crazy in love

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to eldervelvet)
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RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 10:32:19 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

Quick reply:

I don't think there is any etiquette on it. R told me he loved me for the first time this past weekend after 7 years and 8 months of belonging to him, so I can speak to the what if you fall and love and the other doesn't part..that was my life for about the past 6.5 years. Some days it was hard but I knew it wasn't something he was intentionally holding back, he just wasn't in love with me. Everything else was so incredible that it made it OK but I can say without a doubt that I have wanted to be loved more than anythng and it is everything I thought it would be :):):).




You know BeingChewsie, I've always enjoyed reading your posts, but I don't think I've ever read a single post of yours that I enjoyed quite so well as this one. My heart is just beaming for you.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Falling In Love - 10/16/2007 10:36:20 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

Quick reply:

I don't think there is any etiquette on it. R told me he loved me for the first time this past weekend after 7 years and 8 months of belonging to him, so I can speak to the what if you fall and love and the other doesn't part..that was my life for about the past 6.5 years. Some days it was hard but I knew it wasn't something he was intentionally holding back, he just wasn't in love with me. Everything else was so incredible that it made it OK but I can say without a doubt that I have wanted to be loved more than anythng and it is everything I thought it would be :):):).




I am soooo happy for you hun. He is one lucky guy. Most women would have given up long before that. Glad he noticed the Jem of a woman before him.

Much love and blessings to you both,

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
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