RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (Full Version)

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batshalom -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 3:27:47 PM)

The good thing about making up the game is also getting to make up the rules, eh!



Rule -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 3:46:56 PM)

[;)]
 
My nick is apt. [:D]



Rover -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 3:55:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I am not going to explain it to you, Rover. Let it suffice that SFM is essentially correct according my models of the minds of the natural slave and of the natural submissive.


Honestly, I didn't ask you to explain it to me (I was not under the misconception for even a moment that you could).  Though I will not hesitate to call upon your vast knowledge for understanding other important issues, such as deciding between paper and plastic at the grocery store.
 
John



Rule -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 4:01:43 PM)

Sorry. I know a lot that experts in their own fields do not, but I am no materials expert.
 
Perhaps these links will help you in your search:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic



Cyntilating -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 4:07:18 PM)

Camille
 
  Thank you for sharing that part of your experience.  I am also glad you were able to find a way back to yourself..
 
I may never get the answer to my question >  "why?"
 and it will continue to be a hot button for me, because of a personal friendship with someone who didn't get herself "back"..
as you say> it effects/impacts every facet of your life from that point forward. 
 
Your personal experience is painful to bring up, I'm sure. But it also may help others in important ways.
 
Thanks again ..
warm smiles
 



hermione83 -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 4:46:19 PM)

I feel like Rule's ideas on slaves / submissives make complete sense to me for one, anyway, and I was absolutely born with the soul of a *slave*. It's something natural, and inescapable for me. It is also certainly different from being submissive. I first heard of BDSM at the age of 11. I am now 24. I have been questioning participants ever since that time, and have a fairly good idea of what is common and not. I would say, that most people completely abuse the terms. However, it's not the word, but the truth that stands in the end - and it doesn't matter what you call something, as long as you know the difference. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet... 



MadRabbit -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 9:52:10 PM)

Fast Reply to No One in Particular.

It would be interesting if someone would post, supporting this ludicrious notion that there is some kind of special set of traits that distinquish the slave from the sub, without using the silly conjecture as a way to make themselves seem more "special" than everyone else who is abusing the terms.



RRafe -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 10:07:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Fast Reply to No One in Particular.

It would be interesting if someone would post, supporting this ludicrious notion that there is some kind of special set of traits that distinquish the slave from the sub, without using the silly conjecture as a way to make themselves seem more "special" than everyone else who is abusing the terms.


Dude, not to be dismissive of slave types........but I don't think anyone who has had to live with one-would put her up on a pedestal. It's a girl with a service kink.

That's the only real common thing-it all goes wildly astray from there.[;)]



hermione83 -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 10:21:56 PM)

I don't think anyone is better than anyone else in this. There really are big common differences, and not the ones you might think. I would be happy to put up my opinion on what the distinctions are (and again, it's really not about the words, but what makes people different..) but I think I would probably not be thanked for it. I think it's very hard to fit in if you're a slave. I think there are less slaves, and less people who want one, definitely. Or what I call slaves. You could switch the terms, or call it anything else, but I still think there would be different core characteristics, in general, for the two groups.

Also, girl with a service kink? Why do you say that? I think slaves actually identify less with "service" in general, for one.



RRafe -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 10:25:55 PM)

I've been involved with one or two. Part of the kink was needing to feel useful-or they got frustrated. The other part was needing to feel I'd take the upper hand with them. It made them feel secure.

The only identified "slave' that needed to be "forced" turned out to be using it as an excuse-she was only a serial moocher-bouncing from one bad situation to the next-looking for a free ride.



MadRabbit -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 10:26:40 PM)

Amazingly enough, I image that we can all state our opinions on the general differences between a slave and submissive and never come to any kind of consensus....as you have proven with this rebuttal to Rrafe's statement.

quote:


Also, girl with a service kink? Why do you say that? I think slaves actually identify less with "service" in general, for one.


Which is why this is all hogwash created in Rule's fantasy world that is structured by vicarious Internet experience, articles from a New Age Leather Spiritual website, and Gorean novels.



hermione83 -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 10:27:38 PM)

So in general, what do you think a submissive in, sort of in the same light that you just described a slave, just curious.



RRafe -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 10:30:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

So in general, what do you think a submissive in, sort of in the same light that you just described a slave, just curious.


The only difference between them is the degree of structure and control that they enjoy. Some want more-some less. And that can always change.



MadRabbit -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 10:31:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

So in general, what do you think a submissive in, sort of in the same light that you just described a slave, just curious.


The only difference between them is the degree of structure and control that they enjoy. Some want more-some less. And that can always change.


Dont forget the...uh..."annihilation of the self"

Thats important, too

[;)]



RRafe -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 10:33:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

So in general, what do you think a submissive in, sort of in the same light that you just described a slave, just curious.


The only difference between them is the degree of structure and control that they enjoy. Some want more-some less. And that can always change.


Dont forget the...uh..."annihilation of the self"

Thats important, too

[;)]


I think Rule is managing that quite nicely.



slavegirljoy -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/26/2007 11:30:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Fast Reply to No One in Particular.

It would be interesting if someone would post, supporting this ludicrious notion that there is some kind of special set of traits that distinquish the slave from the sub, without using the silly conjecture as a way to make themselves seem more "special" than everyone else who is abusing the terms.

Of course, there are differences between different submissives and different slaves, just like there are differences between everyone.  But, as for me, i have been a submissive and i am now a slave and, there's no difference in me now, that i am a slave. i have been in 5 different long-term D/s relationships, several vanilla relationships and, now i am in a Master/slave relationship.  And, the only difference for me is how the Men have treated me.  i am the same.  i just do things differently.  The only reason i do anything differently is because my Master has me do things differently.  He has me call Him "Sir" or "Master" and none of the Doms, i was with, ever did.  They never had me call them any name other than their birth name.  If any of them had told me to call them "Sir" or, anything else, i would have.   my Master changed my name and took ownership of me and took control of decision-making for me.  If any of the Doms had told me that they were going to change my name and be in complete control of me, i would have been very happy to hear that and, i would have taken whatever name they gave me and i would have deferred all decisions to them.  If they had told me that i was going to be their property and be their slave, i would have been thrilled and, i would have gladly accepted that role.   i have always done everything i was told to do and, i have always given as much as was taken.  But, none of the Doms ever did tell me that i would be their slave and, so, i wasn't.  They took less than my Master takes.  i served them just as i serve my Master but, He requires more from me and so, He gets more from me.  They had no interest in having a slave and, so i wasn't a slave to them, even though i was ready, willing and, able to be a slave to them and, i ached inside for that level of control over me from them, which is why those relationships didn't last.  i didn't get the slave treatment that i needed.  Thankfully, i get it now. slave joyOwned property of  Master David



Rule -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/27/2007 3:17:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Amazingly enough, I image that we can all state our opinions on the general differences between a slave and submissive and never come to any kind of consensus....as you have proven with this rebuttal to Rrafe's statement.

Perhaps she knows something that RRafe does not?
 
Why does one need a consensus? Something is either true or it is not. A consensus does not a truth make. There used to be consensi that the Earth was flat and that it was the centre of the solar system and such.
 
In any case there is something far superior to a consensus at hand: me. That is why all ought to obey and attend to me, even though I am not that dominant at all.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Rule's fantasy world that is structured by vicarious Internet experience, articles from a New Age Leather Spiritual website, and Gorean novels.
I am seriously impressed, MadRabbit. You have done your homework! These were indeed some of my sources of information. (There is more.)
 
Perhaps there is hope for you yet. Well done.



Cyntilating -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/27/2007 3:30:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Fast Reply to No One in Particular.

It would be interesting if someone would post, supporting this ludicrious notion that there is some kind of special set of traits that distinquish the slave from the sub, without using the silly conjecture as a way to make themselves seem more "special" than everyone else who is abusing the terms.

Of course, there are differences between different submissives and different slaves, just like there are differences between everyone.  But, as for me, i have been a submissive and i am now a slave and, there's no difference in me now, that i am a slave. i have been in 5 different long-term D/s relationships, several vanilla relationships and, now i am in a Master/slave relationship.  And, the only difference for me is how the Men have treated me.  i am the same.  i just do things differently.  The only reason i do anything differently is because my Master has me do things differently.  He has me call Him "Sir" or "Master" and none of the Doms, i was with, ever did.  They never had me call them any name other than their birth name.  If any of them had told me to call them "Sir" or, anything else, i would have.   my Master changed my name and took ownership of me and took control of decision-making for me.  If any of the Doms had told me that they were going to change my name and be in complete control of me, i would have been very happy to hear that and, i would have taken whatever name they gave me and i would have deferred all decisions to them.  If they had told me that i was going to be their property and be their slave, i would have been thrilled and, i would have gladly accepted that role.   i have always done everything i was told to do and, i have always given as much as was taken.  But, none of the Doms ever did tell me that i would be their slave and, so, i wasn't.  They took less than my Master takes.  i served them just as i serve my Master but, He requires more from me and so, He gets more from me.  They had no interest in having a slave and, so i wasn't a slave to them, even though i was ready, willing and, able to be a slave to them and, i ached inside for that level of control over me from them, which is why those relationships didn't last.  i didn't get the slave treatment that i needed.  Thankfully, i get it now. slave joyOwned property of  Master David

 
Hi Joy
  Your post is thought-provoking..  ( as usual)
 
so...I can read this 3 ways
 
~ you are a slave, who was in relationships that didn't utilize your slave nature and full potential until now..
 
~  you were submissive but then became slave because of the dominant ( master) man and his desires, life-style preferences and demands of you..
 
~ you feel, there is no difference between a slave and a submissive..the difference lies in the type of relationship and the structure of what goes on between the people(s) in that relationship..
 
do you feel one of these interpretations is closer to your thoughts/experience/meaning of your post?  or a 4th that I'm not reading??
 



chellekitty -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/27/2007 5:13:19 AM)

why does everything have to be put in a neat little box? why can't it just be what it is, messy and undefined?



Rule -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/27/2007 5:38:02 AM)

Most people have different compartments for eating utensils as forks, knives and spoons and other food preparation utensils.
 
In trying to understand the universe those of the scientific inclination try to establish facts and to discern the causal relationships between them. Hail, snow and rain are all precipitation, that lay people may simply refer to as precipitation, but that those who study precipitation discern and define and characterize into hail, snow and rain in order to better study and understand these phenomena.



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