Flogger materials and handle construction. (Full Version)

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brokenhallelujah -> Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/1/2005 2:03:55 PM)

Hey guys.

I have built quite a few floggers in the last couple of years, and have a very good leather wholesaler here in town. The problem I have right now has more to do with handle construction and finishing work. I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations.

For handles, I usually leave about eight inches of uncut leather at one end of the cutting, and then wrap that around a dowel or some other core material. The problem I am having is that I tend to work in heavier leathers -- elk, bullhide -- and produce floggers with a higher number of tresses. This causes some trouble, as the diameter of the handle can quickly become unmanageable in thickness, and not particularly comfortable for some people with smaller hands.

Can anyone recommend another method of attaching the falls to some kind of handle material? I took apart a higher-quality professionally made flogger, and found they were doing it pretty much the same way described above...

I am at a loss, and have a beautiful skin I would like to turn into something really special.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, ya'll.



InsomniaNow -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/3/2005 11:03:38 AM)

Hi, I'm andrew with SinCrafters.com

We have 3 different method for handle construction.

1. Wood turned Handles.
2. Aluminum handles with a stitched handle.. typically a piece of 4 / 5 oz veg tan but stiched onto the handle
3. kangaroo braided handles on an aluminum core.

(many pro flogger makers use PVC pipe instead of the 6061 aircraft grade aluminum we like to use.)

We take and cut out tails leaving the top inch of the leather uncut, and then take enough leather to roll up and fit inside the aluminum handle, and we tie what we call a donut knot through wholes we typically drill into the leather, (this keeps the plug from unraveling once the screws are sunk).. We stuff the plug we just made into the aluminum handle, after we've finished our handle covering, and then wrap the remaining tails around the handle We then use counter sunk sheet metal screws to attach the tails. We build a bulge on the other end often using wrapped leather, and attach that with screws.. Also at the other end is where we balance the flogger using lead, this can be done with either cast lead chunks or epoxy and lead shot.

We then tie our turks heads / aztec button knots / gaucho knots.. over the bulges.. We use all kangaroo leather so we end up often with a very petite handle that is built solid. Some of our handles are big, but that's by design, not need.

All of our kangaroo lace is hand cut, hand beveled and hand braided / tied.

Wood handles are basically the same except we don't use a plug on most of those.

Wood dowels are entirely over used for building floggers, cost more than PVC and don't provide the same flexibility of use. Glues / furniture tacks / staples / nails all things I don't trust to hold my floggers together.. (we do use glue to keep things in place while we permanently attach them.)

All of the how-to guides I've seen for building floggers will allow you to build something cheap. I expect my submissives to be world class, my toys to be world class. And of course I expect to be world class as well. I don't want an ugly submissive, why would I want an ugly flogger? high standards all around.

Andrew




softandshy -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/3/2005 5:12:27 PM)

You could try skiving down the section used in the handle (never tried it). Or use copper piping, as suggested by Sartan of Treve. The second can be even be custom weighted as the interior is hollow, and it polishes up very beautifully (have tried it and it works nicely).



brokenhallelujah -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/6/2005 9:17:21 AM)

Thanks for posting back, guys.

Andrew, I think I get what you are describing, but the details still elude me. Sorry, I am a bit dense on this sort of thing (very visual learner...). Are you saying that you do roll the uncut leather end up and insert into the pipe, then countersink screws to hold it? That's what I get from your description. Where do you get pipe with a wide enough diameter to support floggers made with heavier leathers/many many tails? More details, please!

That technique sounds really interesting, especially with the idea of a brass handle, softandshy...

Again, thanks to both of you.

I will post pictures when I finish. And Andrew, you guys do have some lovely stuff at sincrafters. Kudos, man.

Sam





Quivver -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/6/2005 9:44:44 AM)

Andrew, can you offer me a range in circumference for a handle? I've been tossing around a few idea's for hand carved handles but only know what would fit my own hand!

Thanks
Q



stef -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/6/2005 10:27:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: softandshy

You could try skiving down the section used in the handle (never tried it). Or use copper piping, as suggested by Sartan of Treve.

Over time, copper reacts badly with the sweat and oils secreted by the hand of the wielder as well as the chemicals used in the tanning process. I would only use it if nothing else was available and certainly not on something I was planning on giving/selling to another person.

~stef



softandshy -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/6/2005 10:43:29 AM)

Thanks sfgrrl, didn't know that. Better fix that then. lol



stef -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/6/2005 11:06:55 AM)

I didn't know it either until the first time I tried it [;)]

~stef



brokenhallelujah -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/7/2005 10:02:41 AM)

hmm. So copper is not the handle of choice. I have seen some really lovely handles done from copper, though. hand tooled and hammered and the like. Do you think they treated it somehow?



stef -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/7/2005 10:11:42 AM)

Worked copper can be extremely beautiful and yes, it can be clearcoated to protect it as well. The problem comes when an untreated copper tube is used for the handle and you apply leather over it.

~stef



brokenhallelujah -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/7/2005 12:21:41 PM)

okay, so as a "bare" material used for cosmetic and structural purposes, copper is good... just not used underneath? Interesting.



InsomniaNow -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 11:12:14 AM)

I use aluminum tube, and I get it from Metal Super Markets, you may have one near you.. They deal with any size of quantity, it's air craft grade stuff, so it's very very strong.

Andrew



InsomniaNow -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 11:16:29 AM)

Q,

We really like to do a variety, we've done anything from half inch, to 1 - 1/4" Diameter, circumference would be that times PI, about 5/6" to 7/8" diameter seems to be what we do most..

Somewhere in there. I usually just take in a piece of what I want and they match it up for me.. lmao, silly but true..

Andrew



InsomniaNow -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 11:26:37 AM)

One more thing Q, check out dowls to figure out sizing, somewhere between 3/4" diameter and 1" diameter with some variety is good.. Hand carved is cool, but depending on what your doing, investing in a $300 or so lathe, and some good chisels can be well worth the money..

Check out your local wood craft is there is one near you, it's really easy to learn, and if you check out some books from the library you can build yourself an amazing bag of tricks that will produce some very artistic custom stuff..

I have about 25 to 30 new floggers that need to be posted to sincrafters.com when I have time. Blows some of what we have up now, clean out of the water. The problem is getting good pictures of the intricate details.

Andrew



InsomniaNow -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 11:33:39 AM)

We've actually been talking about building a how we do it. We don't really feel we will lose business over it.. We think do it yourself types aren't like to purchase from us anyhow, and competition isn't likely to take the steps we do. And of course anything that improves the quality of toys out there is a good thing.

In fact at the last venue we vended at we shared some of our secrets with some of the more famous name brand flogger makers only to get a response of, Fuck that, I'm not doing that!

Is there anyone who would be interested in seeing such a photographic guide to how we build our floggers?

Andrew






Quivver -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 11:34:13 AM)

Thanks Andrew, what i've got in mind is more exotic woods, chip carve and dremil.
I'm looking forward to seeing the new stuff on the site.
Thanks
Q



BeachMystress -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 3:51:01 PM)


I'd love to see such a guide. Personally, I'd write it, then get in contact with Greenery press and see if they'd be interested in publishing it for you. They sell several short publications they call toybag guides. http://www.greenerypress.com/toybagguideindex.htm I've been searching for a book on how to make a flogger.. Not the simple stuff online, but something real that talks about the types of tools needed.. how to choose the leather so the edges don't constantly lose lil bits of black crumbs.. simple knots.. hints/tips/tricks.. that type of stuff. While I love the idea of you posting the info for free, I would pay for real how to guide on making floggers that don't look quite so home made.



stef -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 4:29:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: InsomniaNow

I use aluminum tube, and I get it from Metal Super Markets, you may have one near you.. They deal with any size of quantity, it's air craft grade stuff, so it's very very strong.

Sadly, there is no Metal Supermarkets location near me so when I don't have a large enough order to place with my local metal supplier, I go to Online Metals. Decent prices for small lot orders and very speedy shipping.

~stef



Quivver -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 8:32:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: InsomniaNow

We've actually been talking about building a how we do it. We don't really feel we will lose business over it.. We think do it yourself types aren't like to purchase from us anyhow, and competition isn't likely to take the steps we do. And of course anything that improves the quality of toys out there is a good thing.

In fact at the last venue we vended at we shared some of our secrets with some of the more famous name brand flogger makers only to get a response of, Fuck that, I'm not doing that!

Is there anyone who would be interested in seeing such a photographic guide to how we build our floggers?

Andrew




Oh yea I'd love to see a guide. I've braided for more years then I care to mention it's just now that my interest or venue appears to be changing, a professional guide would be great!

Q



brokenhallelujah -> RE: Flogger materials and handle construction. (8/8/2005 10:04:48 PM)

YES!!

A definative (and ideally, illustrated) text that would at least give you a good place to start without making so many of the expensive and stupid mistakes right off the bat, would be really powerful. Especially for the diy-ers.

It would be really enlightening, Andrew, if you or someone like you who has all the "tricks in the toolbox" would let the rest of us peek in. I also think it would sell like crazy.

And you are right. For me it is a matter of symbolic and metaphysical importance that what I use comes from my own hands. It won't take away from the business of professionals like yourself. As you said, even other professionals have examined your work and gone... "uh-uh. nope. no way." We "sometimers" or amateurs even more so.

Please. Do this!



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