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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/5/2007 4:30:45 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair
Obsolete shells or not, they contained something that the other side of the argument claimed Iraq didn’t have, and something that proved their “the inspections were effective” argument wrong.
 


err excuse me, but if my memory serves me correctly the inspectors wanted to continue because they claimed their inspections were working and we told them we were going to war and they had to leave as a result of our going in.

So my question is why would we expect to find a perfectly scrubbed country when the inspectors were unable to finish?






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/5/2007 4:54:49 PM >


_____________________________

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/5/2007 4:43:15 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:


Bush would have to be a “criminal” to do the things you said he did. Done at a federal level, he’d be tried in a federal court, or brought through impeachment proceedings. Either way, in order for your conclusions that Bush committed “fraud” to be true, he’d already have to be convicted.


You're confusing my opinion with that of a Grand Jury or Trial Jury.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/5/2007 6:16:28 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



my search engine must be broke because people are saying that all this sarin was found and all i can find is shells and no quantifiable value of sarin.

anyone got a search engine that works better tham mine?



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html

Excerpts:

1.  BAGHDAD, Iraq— A roadside bomb containing sarin nerve agent recently exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday.

2.  The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmi

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120268,00.html

Excerpts:

1.  NEW YORK — Tests on an artillery shell that blew up in Iraq on Saturday confirm that it did contain an estimated three or four liters of the deadly nerve agent sarin, Defense Department officials told Fox News Tuesday

2.  Three liters is about three-quarters of a gallon; four liters is a little more than a gallon.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/5/2007 6:19:19 PM   
herfacechair


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http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/duelfer.html

Excerpts:

1.  Saddam Husayn so dominated the Iraqi Regime that its strategic intent was his alone. He wanted to end sanctions while preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when sanctions were lifted.

2.  OFF [Oil For Food] rescued Baghdad’s economy from a terminal decline created by sanctions. The Regime quickly came to see that OFF could be corrupted to acquire foreign exchange both to further undermine sanctions and to provide the means to enhance dual-use infrastructure and potential WMD-related development.

So much for the claims that the sanctions were working.

Now watch me include an entire statement to show you how one of your sources took him out of context:


3.  The former Regime had no formal written strategy or plan for the revival of WMD after sanctions. Neither was there an identifiable group of WMD policy makers or planners separate from Saddam. Instead, his lieutenants understood WMD revival was his goal from their long association with Saddam and his infrequent, but firm, verbal comments and directions to them.

One of your sources included the first part, but left the second part out.

4.  Saddam felt that any country that had the technological ability to develop WMD had an intrinsic right to do so. He saw WMD as both a symbol and a normal process of modernity. Saddam’s national security policy demanded victory in war, deterrence of hostile neighbors (including infi ltration into Iraq), and prestige and strategic influence throughout the Arab world. These concerns led Iraq to develop and maintain WMD programs.

Russia and France opposed us . . . this report gives an indication as to their motivation:

5.  Iraq negotiated a $40 billion agreement for Russian exploration of several oil fi elds over a 10-year period. Follow-on contracts called for the construction of a pipeline running from southern to northern Iraq. Performance would start upon the lifting of sanctions. Under OFF, 32 percent of the Iraqi contracts went to Russia. The Iraqis gave preferential treatment to Russian companies mainly to try to gain Russia’s support on the UN Security Council. The Russians, French, Ukrainians, and others succeeded in reducing the amount of OFF money Iraq paid to the UN Compensation Committee (for Gulf war reparations) from 30 to 25 percent thus adding signifi cantly to Iraq’s income stream.

6.  The Regime sought a favorable relationship with France because France was influential as a permanent member of the UN Security Council and was in a good position to help Iraq with lifting sanctions.

7.  Iraq awarded short term contracts under OFF to companies around the world. As of June 2000, French companies had contracts totaling $1.78 billion.

From the Washington Times, April 27, 2005:

The CIA's chief weapons inspector said there is credible evidence to suggest that WMD in Iraq may have been moved into Syria. Inspector Charles Duelfer, who heads the Iraq Survey Group also agrees that it is a possibility that WMD had been moved into Syria from Iraq, citing intelligence gained from a Syrian security officer and information the Survey Group has researched about material being moved out of Iraq (he didn't elaborate due to security reasons). However, Duelfer says there is enough evidence to merit an investigation

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182932,00.html

“General, when did you come to the United States?

GEORGE SADA, AUTHOR, "SADDAM'S SECRETS": Well, I came two years ago.

HANNITY: And up to that point, you were in Iraq?

SADA: Yes, I was in Iraq.

HANNITY: And you were Saddam Hussein's top military advisor?

SADA: Yes, I was No. 2 in the air force.

HANNITY: And how many years did you work under him?

SADA: I worked since the revolution of 1968.

HANNITY: From the beginning?

HANNITY: Some people say they were destroyed. Did we still have them leading up to the invasion?

SADA: No, he had a very good organization that Saddam was created to show some of them but to continue to hide.

HANNITY: So he had them.

SADA: Yes.

HANNITY: Where were they? And were they moved and where?

SADA: Well, up to the year 2002, 2002, in summer, they were in Iraq. And after that, when Saddam realized that the inspectors are coming on the first of November and the Americans are coming, so he took the advantage of a natural disaster happened in Syria, a dam was broken. So he — he announced to the world that he is going to make an air bridge...

HANNITY: You know for a fact he moved these weapons to Syria?

SADA: Yes.

HANNITY: How do you know that?

SADA: I know it because I have got the captains of the Iraqi airway that were my friends, and they told me these weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria.

BECKEL: How did he move them, general? How were they moved?

SADA: They were moved by air and by ground, 56 sorties by jumbo, 747, and 27 were moved, after they were converted to cargo aircraft, they were moved to Syria.”

http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/DuelferRpt/Addendums.pdf

Excerpts:

1. ISG received information about movement of material out of Iraq, including the possibility that WMD was involved. In the judgment of the working group, these reports were suffi ciently credible to merit further investigation.

2. ISG was unable to complete its investigation and is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was evacuated to Syria before the war.

ISG wasn’t able to complete its investigation. So saying that Iraq had “no” WMD based on an uncompleted investigation isn’t being too responsible.

I don’t find Bush’s skit wrong in terms of his looking for WMD.

What I’m seeing is that he’s playing like he’s looking for WMD in the White House. He’s not doing it in response to not finding WMD.

And the audience found it funny.

I made a comment like that as a picture caption on a photo that had nothing to do with Iraq in the 90s, after the inspection teams were kicked out. And people found it funny.

On the video that you showed, the only thing that I found distasteful was using pictures of people that made the ultimate sacrifice. I don’t believe that a majority of those troops would’ve approved flashing their faces on a video aimed at demonizing a man the majority of them supported. Especially as related to a war the majority of them supported.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/5/2007 6:27:07 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealOne
quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

Obsolete shells or not, they contained something that the other side of the argument claimed Iraq didn’t have, and something that proved their “the inspections were effective” argument wrong.


err excuse me, but if my memory serves me correctly the inspectors wanted to continue because they claimed their inspections were working and we told them we were going to war and they had to leave as a result of our going in.


Because Saddam played cat and mouse games with them. Go look at what Georges Sada admits to, with regards to Saddam’s intents with the inspections. An inspection team that constantly falls pray someone’s playing cat and mouse with them is no longer effective . . . and is an inspection team that’s not working:

http://www.theamericanenterprise.org/issues/articleID.18837/article_detail.asp

Except:

1.  Dr. Kay’s report noted that, “We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002.” He concluded, “Saddam, at least as judged by those scientists and other insiders who worked in his military-industrial programs, had not given up his aspirations and intentions to continue to acquire weapons of mass destruction…. Saddam intended to resume these programs whenever the external restrictions were removed. Several of these officials acknowledge receiving inquiries since 2000 from Saddam or his sons about how long it would take to restart CW [chemical weapons] production.”

If the inspections were working, they would’ve uncovered those, there’s no excuse for that.

And this idea that they needed more time to find all this is BS.

Doing an honest WMD related inventory shouldn’t have taken weeks, especially when the people on the bottom would’ve done the counting and documenting, and people on higher levels would’ve fit this into a bigger picture.

Then it’s a simple matter of providing transparency to the inspection teams.

But no, the Inspectors had to stab in the dark about where to search next. The Iraqis could’ve lead them by the fingers, but they didn’t.


No, the inspections didn’t work. They were just saying that to avert war.

RealONe: So my question is why would we expect to find a perfectly scrubbed country when the inspectors were unable to finish?

The other side of the argument claims that the inspections were effective, that all the WMD were destroyed or found. If that were the case, we’d have to have a “perfectly scrubbed country.”

And that said sarin wouldn’t have been discovered.

However, by arguing that we can’t expect a perfectly scrubbed country, you’re essentially arguing that we should expect to find WMD. And by doing that, you cast doubts against the very doubts you insinuate when you say you can’t find anything with your search engine with regards to quantifiable amounts of sarin gas.

The other side of the argument can’t have one thing or the other. They can’t argue that the sarin is from an earlier period if they argue that the inspections were working. If that was from an earlier period, they had YEARS, more than enough time, to find and destroy those.

And by going that route, they’re proving their claims that Iraq had “no” WMD wrong.

It’s one thing or the other. Perfectly scrubbed country to support the argument that there were “no” WMD and that the inspections were effective. Or, a country that’s not perfectly scrubbed, HENCE still has WMD.

You can’t have it both ways.

And sarin was found. It’s a chemical agent, hence it’s a WMD. No amount of spin will change that fact.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/5/2007 6:30:11 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


Bush would have to be a “criminal” to do the things you said he did. Done at a federal level, he’d be tried in a federal court, or brought through impeachment proceedings. Either way, in order for your conclusions that Bush committed “fraud” to be true, he’d already have to be convicted.


You're confusing my opinion with that of a Grand Jury or Trial Jury.



You got on luckydog1’s case for expressing his position on Ritter. You turn around and argue that there should be a conviction before he could say that.

I’m holding you to the same standards that you hold him to. Your throwing your, “my opinion” card doesn’t cut it.

Bush wasn’t convicted, or indited, yet you described Bush as such, adamant to prove yourself right with a hypothetical Grand Jury story told by a former US attorney that’s ideologically against George Bush.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/5/2007 8:21:38 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:


Bush wasn’t convicted, or indited, yet you described Bush as such


I don't recall doing that. I'm usually pretty specific about Due Process being for everyone.

Refresh my memory, and give me a link back to the original post.

TIA.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/5/2007 9:18:25 PM   
SimplyMichael


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$2,400,000,000,000

Or about 1/3 of the current national debt
Or enough to buy 480 brand new $5 billion dollar 300 megawat nuclear reactors
Or enough to buy the entire economic output of either China or Germany

Or it is enough to find a half dozen obsolete and degraded chemical shells.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 2:05:57 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

You got on luckydog1’s case for expressing his position on Ritter. You turn around and argue that there should be a conviction before he could say that.

I’m holding you to the same standards that you hold him to. Your throwing your, “my opinion” card doesn’t cut it.


Bush wasn’t convicted, or indited, yet you described Bush as such, adamant to prove yourself right with a hypothetical Grand Jury story told by a former US attorney that’s ideologically against George Bush.

I don't recall doing that. I'm usually pretty specific about Due Process being for everyone.

Refresh my memory, and give me a link back to the original post.

TIA.


I’ve added everything else back into that quote to demonstrate what I was actually saying.

Is it too much to ask to not take me out of context? Or is addressing what I ACTUALLY said either too challenging or impossible for you? Taking me out of context, addressing what you HOPED I said, or THOUGHT I said, just so that you think you still have an argument doesn’t cut it.  

Those are rhetorical, not meant to be answered.


Had you read the first sentence with the intentions of understanding what I was actually saying, you’d know full well what I meant by that bolded purple sentence:

“Who gives a rats ass what some pedophiles personal opinion on Geo politics is.” -luckydog1

“Regarding your baseless Ad Hominum attack. Got a copy of the Jury Verdict, or Plea Deal? It's nice that you fell for the slander that Ritter is guilty of some crime, but last time I checked, you needed to have a trial before you called someone a criminal.” -farglebargle

That’s right after you previously said this:

“Because you were fucking IDIOTS to fall for Bush's Criminal Fraud,” -farglebargle

“IN FACT, Bush had to commit Felony Fraud in violation of 18 USC 371 to invade and occupy Iraq,” -farglebargle

No conviction, no inditement, plea agreement, or whatever. So much for being specific about due process for everyone.

Based on this transaction, nobody could be called such until there’s been an incitement, verdict, etc, that Bush did “commit” those acts.

Anybody with at least a high school freshman’s reading comprehension abilities would’ve known that I made that post based on those statements, and would’ve understood that statement as describing what I’ve reconstructed here.

Especially with my opening statement.

You applied double standards and we called you out on it.  I’m not buying your smoke screens, red herrings, and tap dances trying to justify why you think there’s a difference between how you hold yourself and how you hold luckydog1, or anybody else that you don’t agree with.

And now this . . .

Your cutting the rest of my post out, and leaving that one sentence, then your taking me out of context and challenging me to defend something that didn’t come anywhere near to what I was arguing, speaks volumes about your integrity.

Have the dignity to address what I actually said, within the context of my entire post and argument.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 2:09:48 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

RED HERRING

$2,400,000,000,000

Or about 1/3 of the current national debt
Or enough to buy 480 brand new $5 billion dollar 300 megawat nuclear reactors
Or enough to buy the entire economic output of either China or Germany

Or it is enough to find a half dozen obsolete and degraded chemical shells.

RED HERRING


Your post misses the point behind what’s going on. And it ignores the life and death asymmetrical threat that our civilization faces.

http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/europe_thy_name.html

Excerpt.

1.  For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy--because everything is at stake.

Build more nuclear power plants with money slated for the Iraq War? Those nuclear power plants become beautiful targets. Because our failure to defeat the enemy in Iraq will lead to a day when we’ll be dealing with bombings, slaughters, and killings over here.

The dumping of mangled, distorted, disfigured, eyeless, etc, corpses in back streets and front gates in Iraq? That’s a taste of what we’ll see here if we don’t accomplish our objectives over there.

What use would the entire output of either China or Germany be to us when we’re living under a strict form of law that’d frown on our enjoying those things? Heck, the Taliban, a very “lenient” version of what Al-Qaeda intends, wouldn’t let people listen to non religious Arabic music.

You’re missing the point by just seeing this as “a bunch of obsolete” shells. This isn’t about the shells, but what was discovered--sarin, a WMD. Something that proves the other side of the argument wrong.

And this highlights an asymmetrical reality. A nation with WMD handing them to a terror organization with a martyrdom brigade willing to take out thousands of people in the U.S. in a series of terror attacks that’d make 9/11 pale in comparison.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 2:11:37 PM   
herfacechair


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Farglebargle, I’m still waiting for replies to my questions. Still waiting for everybody else to answer my questions as well.

< Message edited by herfacechair -- 11/6/2007 2:12:49 PM >

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 2:16:19 PM   
mnottertail


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what asymmetrical threat exists or even existed regarding Iraq?   

Illogical conclusions, combined with Red Herring.  Should make a pungent sushi, but no reason to believe.

Don't buy any of the unproven and extremely tenuous assumptions, and therefore don't buy the deal. (and as is occuring, more and more people are dropping away from the unconvincing buncombe as well). 

Ron

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 3:43:43 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

Farglebargle, I’m still waiting for replies to my questions. Still waiting for everybody else to answer my questions as well.


What questions remain unanswered? I thought I had covered all the outstanding issues.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 3:47:12 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

Have the dignity to address what I actually said, within the context of my entire post and argument. [/color]


I GET IT NOW.

You're *REALLY* pissed off that I pointed out what idiots people were for falling for it!

I understand people ashamed for being so foolish. It's had to admit falling for a Con Artists Scam.

But pointlessly focusing on an irrelevant detail isn't going to repair the damage that negligence caused.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 4:06:10 PM   
herfacechair


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mnottertail: what asymmetrical threat exists or even existed regarding Iraq?

From earlier in this thread:

The War on Terrorism is an asymmetrical war. You should view this as such, otherwise, you’re begging to lose the war.

Under asymmetrical warfare, you don’t need a power projecting military to deliver a blow against a powerful enemy. Terrorists proved that in 1993 and 2001.

In this case, all you need is a suitcase nuclear bomb, and a member of a terrorist organization’s martyrdom brigade, and presto. A precision guided “bomb” that could strike a target within inches.

Not even the greatest military in the world, with enough firepower power to level a continent, could prevent 19 hijackers from turning airliners into precision guided projectiles aimed at targets on our own soil.

Under asymmetrical warfare, allowing a dictator to play cat and mouse games with regards to his WMD programs, given his past history of supporting terrorists, given his hosting radical terrorist conventions, given his making death to America statements, and given Bin Laden’s search for WMD, and better ways to kill more Americans,
not going into Iraq would’ve been equivalent to letting someone play with matches in a room you’re both in, when it’s flooded with gasoline.

mnottertail: Illogical conclusions, combined with Red Herring. Should make a pungent sushi, but no reason to believe.

You’re precisely what the two Chinese colonels were talking about when they wrote their book, “Unrestricted Warfare.” In this book they interchange the west, with the U.S., military, and members of the west.

There’s one section where they say that these methods of warfare are beyond the frequency bandwidth of certain people. Meaning, people like you are going to have problems grasping this war, where you have to think outside the box and get rid of the outdated notion of what constitutes a real war and what doesn’t.

The war paradigm has shifted, or, as the authors put it, the “war god” has changed his mask.

Unrestricted Warfare scratches the surface of asymmetrical warfare. And one of the aims is for the weaker organization to defeat a powerful nation, and this is pending on that nation having people like you who can’t think outside the box--people who dismiss this as “illogical” and “red herring”.

However, here’s a link to that book, read it and learn it. THAT’S what a REAL conservative will do before dismissing asymmetrical warfare out of hand:


http://www.c4i.org/unrestricted.pdf

mnottertail: Don't buy any of the unproven and extremely tenuous assumptions, and therefore don't buy the deal.

You’ve described how to treat your drivel to the “T”.

As far as “unproven” and “tenuous assumptions”, I beg to differ.

I’ve used my understanding of asymmetrical warfare to predict how the terrorists would react to certain actions in Iraq. In fact, back in 2004, I made a projection on Iraq, with five or six specific predictions.

All but one has been fulfilled, and the last prediction is in progress, and is slated to happen.

Three years later, my projection, based on my understanding of asymmetrical warfare, human nature, and my readings of thousands of years worth of history, is still holding.

You CAN’T do that with an assumption or something that isn’t proven.

Read the book that the above link leads to, read it more than once if you have to, and you’ll start understanding what we’re dealing with.

Then, proceed to listen to what our enemies are saying. Everything from using population to leverage one’s advantage, to financial wrangling, word exchange over the media, to specifically timed terrorists attacks, etc, used in combination, or in lieu of conventional warfare means, and you’ll see asymmetrical warfare written all over it.

I highly recommend that you actually study something before you pass judgement on its validity.


mnottertail:  (and as is occuring, more and more people are dropping away from the unconvincing buncombe as well).

Speak for yourself, and your neighborhood. You don’t speak for the rest of the country.

I’ve found that when I’ve explained asymmetrical warfare on the street, people understand what’s going on better, and they’re less likely to trend toward what the other side of the argument has been arguing.

In fact, they start trending toward my side of the argument.

If people are drifting away, it’s because the media is doing a good job hoodwinking them into believing the spin that I see over and over again with the people that I’ve argued against.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 4:07:51 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

Have the dignity to address what I actually said, within the context of my entire post and argument.


I GET IT NOW.

You're *REALLY* pissed off that I pointed out what idiots people were for falling for it!

I understand people ashamed for being so foolish. It's had to admit falling for a Con Artists Scam.

But pointlessly focusing on an irrelevant detail isn't going to repair the damage that negligence caused.


There you go again, utilizing shoot and move tactics. You get beat in one area, you switch to another area and attack.  

For instance, take the theme of this recent reply, and you’ll find that it has nothing to do with what I talked about.

You didn’t point anything out. I called you out on your double standards. Instead of moving on from that part of the argument, or admitting that you were using double standards, you took my statement out of context.

Hence my saying that you should have the integrity to address what I’m actually talking about instead of taking me out of context.

That’s not me pointing something out to “cover negligence”. Because I didn’t commit negligence. I put the entire post back in to demonstrate the fact that I didn’t communicate what you implied I communicated.

That’s me pointing out your attempts to cover YOUR negligence.

Point blank, you got called out on something. Instead of coming to terms on your negligence, keeping your mouth shut about Bush and ‘fraud’, or keeping your mouth shut with regards to luckydog1’s statement against Ritter, you expand all this effort to cover that negligence.

I’ve pulled specific statements to prove your negligence with exposing your double standards. I wouldn’t be surprised if what you say in that quote is precisely how you’re feeling right now.

Again, I stand by my statement. Have the integrity to address something that I said. HINT: Read what I say with the intentions of understanding what I said. Do it with a calm, and level mind, not when you’re pissed or distracted because of something I said.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 536
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 4:10:23 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

Farglebargle, I’m still waiting for replies to my questions. Still waiting for everybody else to answer my questions as well.


What questions remain unanswered? I thought I had covered all the outstanding issues.


No you haven’t. I’ve asked you questions, bolded in red with yes or no, or questions challenging you to find statements you claimed I made.

The yes or no questions had to be copy and pasted, with your option containing an “X”.

You haven’t answered any of those questions. You did quote one of them, but you dodged the question inside the quote.

As far as covering outstanding issues, not even close. What you’ve done was dodge the issues, apply red herrings, refused to face the facts you’ve been confronted with, stepping back and drawing a new line, shoot and move, and applying double standards.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 537
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 4:18:13 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

Farglebargle, I’m still waiting for replies to my questions. Still waiting for everybody else to answer my questions as well.


What questions remain unanswered? I thought I had covered all the outstanding issues.


No you haven’t. I’ve asked you questions, bolded in red with yes or no, or questions challenging you to find statements you claimed I made.

The yes or no questions had to be copy and pasted, with your option containing an “X”.

You haven’t answered any of those questions. You did quote one of them, but you dodged the question inside the quote.




You're not worth the effort.





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to herfacechair)
Profile   Post #: 538
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/6/2007 4:47:48 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

Farglebargle, I’m still waiting for replies to my questions. Still waiting for everybody else to answer my questions as well.


What questions remain unanswered? I thought I had covered all the outstanding issues.


No you haven’t. I’ve asked you questions, bolded in red with yes or no, or questions challenging you to find statements you claimed I made.

The yes or no questions had to be copy and pasted, with your option containing an “X”.

You haven’t answered any of those questions. You did quote one of them, but you dodged the question inside the quote.

As far as covering outstanding issues, not even close. What you’ve done was dodge the issues, apply red herrings, refused to face the facts you’ve been confronted with, stepping back and drawing a new line, shoot and move, and applying double standards.


You're not worth the effort.


You can’t say that you weren’t warned:

“Now that I’m in it, it’s going to go on and on and on . . .” -herfacechair

“This may come as a surprise, but I have absolutely NO INTENTIONS of convincing you of anything. Likewise, I’m going to have the exact same assessments, that I’ve argued here, after this argument that I held before I entered this thread.” -herfacechair

“I’m just in this for the debate. Not for the discussion, not for the discourse, but for the debate. And to present the other side of the story for someone in the middle reading this exchange.” -herfacechair

And given the pattern that keeps repeating in this thread, realize that you’re just now coming to the same conclusions that quicker people figured out earlier.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 539
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/7/2007 8:29:41 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
mnottertail: what asymmetrical threat exists or even existed regarding Iraq?

From earlier in this thread:

The War on Terrorism is an asymmetrical war. You should view this as such, otherwise, you’re begging to lose the war.

Under asymmetrical warfare, you don’t need a power projecting military to deliver a blow against a powerful enemy. Terrorists proved that in 1993 and 2001.

In this case, all you need is a suitcase nuclear bomb, and a member of a terrorist organization’s martyrdom brigade, and presto. A precision guided “bomb” that could strike a target within inches.

Not even the greatest military in the world, with enough firepower power to level a continent, could prevent 19 hijackers from turning airliners into precision guided projectiles aimed at targets on our own soil.

Under asymmetrical warfare, allowing a dictator to play cat and mouse games with regards to his WMD programs, given his past history of supporting terrorists, given his hosting radical terrorist conventions, given his making death to America statements, and given Bin Laden’s search for WMD, and better ways to kill more Americans,
not going into Iraq would’ve been equivalent to letting someone play with matches in a room you’re both in, when it’s flooded with gasoline.


Yah, again.........your opinion is your opinion, does not answer the question posed, and in the twelve year lull in which Saddam pulled back from Kuwait (after we told him we didn't much give a fuck if he invaded it, and went bugshit because he took the whole country) the gasoline was just flooding all over and matchmakers working overtime. you could smell it........

I don't think so, don't buy the assumptions and don't buy the deal, never did, and never will.  His WMD games (we knew what he actually had in inventory, we sold it to him for the war with Iran, and knew what he expended) were for the benefit of his posturing with Iran......and as it turns out, it is apparent that Iran takes a keen interest in Iraq........that shouldn't be news to even the profoundly imbecilic. 

So, the WMD savior theory is lame, as is the 1441 shit, because there are many countries in violation of UN security resolutions (most notably Israel) but we dont waltz in there defending the UN.  This pretty much  Now interestingly enough since the UN has 'siezed the resolution in committee' the US is in violation of the resolution by going in, thing is as  permanant members, there will never be resolutions against  the UK, US,  China, France or Russia.

Iraq had nothing to do with terrrorism  against the United States or 9/11.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch10.htm

This, according to your government. 

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_W._Bush:_Quotes

There are many more, and since the press quotes the deceptions and lies, and the military is in the business of warring, and public support is necessary to continue, there is no wonder  why these examples should demonstrate why our military loves the press.  Which I believe is the discussion here.

Ron 


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/7/2007 8:49:56 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to herfacechair)
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