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The reality of many searching submissives: the cock issue - 10/26/2007 5:25:06 PM   
AAkasha


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Something I have noticed around these parts (on the other side) is the VERY HOT and very cold nature of submissive outreach.  It's as if their initial contacts are with such urgency, they see you online, and it's as if their very life depended on it.  The emails are fast and furious as long as you respond.  They are quick to go on IM, into chat, anything to keep the conversation going.  Based on this intense attention, it would seem their very life depended on making that connection.

But in the following days, that's when 90% of the time, submissives drop the ball.  Their follow up skills are bad if they follow up at all, they drop dramatically in their intensity level with regards to interest.  Honestly, it has me wonder quite often if it's really that they log on with an erection and it's EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to find that "domina of their dreams," and as soon as they cum - whether it be later that night or the next day - they kind of just wander off to their normal lives and it's just not that important any more.  That is, until the next erection (kink related) at which time they log on, and probably start messaging profusely another femdom who happens to be online at the time.

I have found my requests that serious applicants wait 1 week and send a detailed letter of introduction (so I can be sure they think about it and actually compose something) have a near zero success rate.  I reduced that expectation to "Send me a detailed email tomorrow so I have time to read it when I am not so busy," and maybe 15% do it.

Is it really all about the hard cock, and the sense of urgency?

Akasha


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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 5:35:20 PM   
Politesub53


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With respect Ma`am, i think thats a bit of a generalisation. Not all ment who contact You will be thinking of sex, many may be new to this, and its just more a case of they get cold feet. No doubt some guys are reacting as You suggest, but by no means all.

Many probably think they are submissive until it becomes time to ante up.

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 5:36:32 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

With respect Ma`am, i think thats a bit of a generalisation. Not all ment who contact You will be thinking of sex, many may be new to this, and its just more a case of they get cold feet. No doubt some guys are reacting as You suggest, but by no means all.

Many probably think they are submissive until it becomes time to ante up.


What's a fair and appropriate "ante up"?

Akasha


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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 5:42:27 PM   
Decimus


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Enough to cover the big blind?

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 5:43:36 PM   
Politesub53


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Surely that would depend on how sure of himself the submissive is ?  From my point of view, the ante up would be the next step that the Mistress asked of me. For anyone not so sure of what they want, the next step may be a step to far.

The problem is that whatver is the correct procedure for one couple wont be the correct procedure for another. Also with this being the internet, You will get a fair share of players mixed in with the genuine submissives.

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 5:48:57 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

... The emails are fast and furious as long as you respond.  They are quick to go on IM, into chat, anything to keep the conversation going...

...But in the following days, that's when 90% of the time, submissives drop the ball.  Their follow up skills are bad if they follow up at all, they drop dramatically in their intensity level with regards to interest. 


I can't speak for others. As for myself, if the relationship isn't moving forward after a week or so of exchanging e-mails, I lose interest.

And by "moving forward," I mean from e-mail to exchanging photos. Then if there's still mutual interest, phone numbers after another week or so. If there's still mutual interest, discussing some sort of plans for meeting in the future after another week or so.

It has nothing to do with being horny at the time of contact, and everything to do with not wanting to be strung along by anyone, for God knows what purpose.        

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 6:03:07 PM   
petdave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
It's as if their initial contacts are with such urgency, they see you online, and it's as if their very life depended on it.  The emails are fast and furious as long as you respond.  They are quick to go on IM, into chat, anything to keep the conversation going.  Based on this intense attention, it would seem their very life depended on making that connection.



Maybe their lives DO depend on that interaction, and they're simply expiring in your absence? 

Really, though, i don't know how you're phrasing it, but "come back next week" sounds like a major blow-off to me... i would expect guys to move on to someone with a bit more free time.


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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 6:14:14 PM   
Zaraseeks


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As a switch I have seen this in male subs as well.  But I can see the subs side of it as well, the Lady who had the most luck with me online (and I was so lucky to have ever found Her) Somehow kept this intensity alive, She didnt hit on sex stuff (well maybe briefly) for months, She ordered very long and meaningful assignments (written) and would put a deadline on it, She made it clear what She expected, and if I did well I would be praised, if not She let me know, and let me know how.  Often it was a mix as She was demanding.  She got in my head and pushed me, but on the same note as Her being so strong and in control allowed me 9after proving myself) to see who She was as a person, I often think back to my time with Her (She has breast cancer now and is going through chemo so Oour contact is different and not nearly so often, plus I now have a Mistress) and wonder how She did it, how She grew to know me so well and make me really long to bring Her pleasure however I could...
But I dont get hard ons *wink*

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 6:16:38 PM   
MistressDolly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


Something I have noticed around these parts (on the other side) is the VERY HOT and very cold nature of submissive outreach. It's as if their initial contacts are with such urgency, they see you online, and it's as if their very life depended on it. The emails are fast and furious as long as you respond. They are quick to go on IM, into chat, anything to keep the conversation going. Based on this intense attention, it would seem their very life depended on making that connection.

But in the following days, that's when 90% of the time, submissives drop the ball. Their follow up skills are bad if they follow up at all, they drop dramatically in their intensity level with regards to interest.

Is it really all about the hard cock, and the sense of urgency?



Yes, if you're dealing with the fantasy-based libido of a bottom. Authentically submissive men aren't so transient.


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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 6:34:32 PM   
DMFParadox


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I'm not a sub, but I think I can help with this.

Most men DON'T have follow up skills--per se.  I'm defining follow up as "Learning about you as a person and not just a picture with boobs in it."  They can chat with beautiful friends... sometimes... but if the stakes are a real relationship and kinky sex, then it has to happen as 'naturally' as it does for women, with common interests, common humor and opinions, or even contrary ones that lead to passion on a deeper level.  Natural conversation is not easy online; there are differences in the environment.  And the Dom/sub dynamic leaves more room for the 'deep commitment' (read: whips, chains, and sex) and less space--initially--for the small talk.  Small talk is essential for what you're asking of these men--i.e., a continuing presence.  Small talk, or any talk or act beyond the rigid boundaries of submission to a hypothetical female with a picture on a website, requires a bit of courage with a hot chick--since back in ye tribal times talking to the wrong hot chick could get you thoroughly killed by the chief and his buddies.  Subs, especially, are feeling this fear and will need you to take charge of the conversation. 

You have a couple of choices here: first, you can do what you're doing, screening out the guys that can't get over their fear and the way that they cling to the idea of you as a hypothetical object; but, sweetie, that's ALL men, to essentially the same degree; the men that get past that fear are more lucky than they are superior beings, because they ended up in circumstances that pushed them past it often enough.  If you block everyone who won't give you a life story right off the bat, you'll block a lot of solid winners that way, and it doesn't necessarily filter out the losers. 

The other thing you can do is start learning to be more adept at the mercenary aspects of small talk, yourself.  Become a saleswoman, with the product being you and the price being a fully realized, fully committed, hunk... talk him into the idea.  He's a freaking sub.  He wants to be a sub because he wants you to make him prove he can be worthy to fuck you, and your criteria of worth is that he talk--er, type--a good game, and keeps it going past "you're so hot, I like everything you want me to like.".  You can find subs to do that, and you can even shape subs into doing that--priviledge of being a Domme.  But to do that, first you have to master that field yourself. 

It will take more time, and a lot--a LOT--of that time will be spent chatting with losers.  Gasp!  Men do this all the time, we have to.  Which is why the 'initial' correspondence of men you've seen is so much stronger.  If you want to actively seek out men that meet your standards, then you'll have to master that initial correspondence yourself, talk to HUNDREDS of losers, and get a feel for what works in manipulating them into proving themselves long-term material, and what doesn't.

Oh, a lot of guys will get scared that they're 'friend zone' when you small-talk them, especially after a heavy scene..  So tease.  Suggest what you'll do to them, but don't spell it outright until they've spent enough time paying their dues. Don't turn off the heat, but don't turn it too high either.

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 6:38:14 PM   
chiaThePet


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Well, I for one, ........................... crap.........................nevermind.

Where's that damn box of kleenex?

chia* (the pet)

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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 6:43:33 PM   
RRafe


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It's based on the same thing that trips up female subs-pursuing a fantasy contruct.

At first, they are excited that they seem to have found a match-over time-they come to realize that not only do you not match it-they are going to have to make some changes and god forbid-sacrifices. Thier libdo is excited by the fantasy-and the more that is compromised-the less thier interest. Finally, they get asked to show up for real-and it comes crashing down-especially if they have tried to build themselves up in the eyes if the top-and know that is going to be outed as a fake.

The end result? A no show dissapearing act.  A serice sub is more likely to want to know details of your likes-and day to day life. These are the keepers-they want a life with someone-and are trying to see if they can REALLY measure up.

To them,it's not a fantasy-it's a fullfillment.

But remeber one important thing here. if YOU come across as a fantasy to someone who wants to realize a sustainable reality-by acting like an asshole-they will go away.....leaving you to the horny net geeks.

< Message edited by RRafe -- 10/26/2007 6:46:03 PM >


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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 6:50:35 PM   
gracieamelia


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It goes both ways ma'am.  A Dom's intensity the first 2 or 3 weeks and especially the first, if there is any interest is like the raging fires in CA.  Then a glip in the submissives tone...that is trying to understand better and asking the questions not to his liking and all of a sudden we arent submissives, but wanna be's.

Or they IM and email for weeks and finally when you ask/beg to see a pic or even meet or cam chat, allof a sudden they go away.

I believe both sides build up this fantasy in their minds of the other person....none of which could be even 90% true, and its..... down hill from there on.
Doms get edgy and say its all about them, or the girl is a wanna be for demonstrating intelligence, or something that neither party expects, not only because of hormones...always...as you seem to find, but because they are responding to a fantasy made up in their heads and between their legs.....

Howcan anyone REALLY get to know someone until they see the whites of their eyes?

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 7:05:10 PM   
switchsecrets


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brings to mind this saying that my Dad used to tell me (half joking, but as they say there's a little truth in jest) "a hard cock has no conscience". the degree to which this statement applies to the subject male varies. but, looking at your profile (OP)  it suggests that a real life meeting is a very remote possibility, therefore an online only exchange is a more likely scenerio. while this can be somewhat full-filling, there can also be a desire from his stand point of making a real life connection (with a Domme) and therefore lose interest in this strictly online exchange. not saying that what you're asking for isn't achievable, but my impression is that you're offering the remote possibility of part time Dominance in exchange for full time submission. i would think that the end result would lean toward the lesser end of the bargain, meaning part-time (translation: some online kinky exchange ~ further translation: wanking session)  note: i hope that you don't take offense to this, just trying to offer an opinion.  

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 7:56:29 PM   
TNstepsout


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Have you been talking to Peter? (he's my most recent no-show)

I have found this to be incredibly common. I've had SO many who are hot, hot, HOT to talk to me when we first chat and then never show for the phone call or scheduled chat. At least now I understand why it's happening.

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 8:24:52 PM   
cloudboy


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Its just plain odd getting all the courtship advice from a married Dom who pisses on any romance outside that institution.


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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 9:11:08 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy




Its just plain odd getting all the courtship advice from a married Dom who pisses on any romance outside that institution.




My profile clearly states that I am married and I am very specific about the kind of relationship I am seeking as I navigate through monogamy into poly.  I am sorry this frustrates you so much.  It seems a fairly simple concept for most to grasp.  I am seeking a boytoy, a plaything to spoil.  I don't want someone to fall in love with me. I don't want a romantic connection. Nor do I want to tell a submissive who he can date or what he does in his personal life.  In the past, I have had successful relationships alongside my primaries, and it took 6 years of marriage before I decided with the help of my man that I am ready to seek outside partners on a more regular basis. However, I don't want a boyfriend.

I have found one excellent candidate so far and it's been a month.  Another guy crashed and burned for getting way too attached to me after a short period of time and I felt it best to cut him loose before breaking his heart.  Meanwhile, I am seeking perhaps one additional boy.

I am pretty transparent about my relationships, considering I have lived my femdom life for all to see over the last 12 years.   Now technology is fantastic and I enjoy taking advantage of it, whether it be webcam training or having personal videos made for my pleasure.  The fact that I want a no-strings relationship with a submisisve man (or a bottom) seems to get you so upset.  Like I said before, it seems you are more bitter that the options are not open to men.  Sorry about that.  On my end, the frustration is finding someone who isn't shot out of cannon one night and gone the next week.  I don't accept money or gifts from my submissive playthings, but I invest a lot in them. As part of my relationship with my "boytoy" I do not let him pay for anything.  In my current relationship I have sent the man two gestures of my interst in the way of toys and sweet gifts.  I plan to populate his toy box as we get closer. He has no problems not falling in love with me.  However, I don't put too much weight on it yet, as we are still getting to know each other on the phone and online.   Whether or not we move to real life at some point depends on how I feel about things and how my husband does also, and whether or not I can manage this without romantic entanglements on either end. 

So, the fact that I am seeking another should not aggravate you so much.  One concept I have, and have shared with my husband, is that perhaps I take on submissives (or bottoms) for 6 month commitments only; the agreement being they perform for me and I provide them with learning and toys, and perhaps better equip them for later relationships.  Submissive men are not that bent out of shape about the idea of submitting to some hot, fetish fun with no strings attached.  And to be honest, they are *thrilled* that a woman actually wants to spend money on THEM, not vice versa.

Akasha


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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/26/2007 9:42:47 PM   
bipolarber


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I think DMFParadox is at least partially right. Yeah, guys get blue balls and will be desperate as hell when they first contact someone. Maybe the first thing you should thell them is to go off, masturbate three times, then come back and talk to you again.... when they are thinking rationally again.

I don't think I would have said that you need to be a saleswoman of yourself so much... it's more like laying out "Terms of Service." You should let them know what the minimums are at this stage of the game, and that the ball is in their court. If they fuck up, they have no one else to blame if you drop them like a statue of Saddam.

Hint: (and I know you probably know this one already) If their inital email doesn't jibe with what you've written in your profile, then you know they haven't taken the time to read up on you. I know several women on this service who deliberately place a special instruction at the bottom of their profile, just to see if the guys responding have read all the way to the bottom or not. It makes the filtering process go so much quicker.


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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/27/2007 4:03:33 AM   
RealityLicks


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I don't see how one simple pattern of behaviour can be ascribed across a grouping that is so diverse in terms of background. Especially when that one pattern is hugely perjorative. There must be something underpinning that tendency to put everything down to men's desire to cum, especially when research shows that women think about sex just as frequently as men and often moreso.

It seems to me that in the short time I've been here I've come across enough women who are sticky-fingered fantasists to conclude that one-handed typists come in both genders...

If I can contain the berserk, rampaging urges of my unruly Y chromosome long enough to communicate clearly with women, it stands to reason that other guys can do it too...

It's worth noting though, that you state clearly upfront to your corrrespondents the pace at which you want the thing to progress. On the other hand, if either side breaks off without explanation, well, this is the internet, I'd say that's the chief warning signal in online communication.

Returning and telling them, after the fact, what your expectations are is going to be entirely different.

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RE: The reality of many searching submissives: the cock... - 10/27/2007 4:18:03 AM   
cloudboy


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You have to see the ironies around yourself, which in this case, you are not really in the dating market and you have a limited interest in anyone you date. No matter how you spin it, those elements qualify your perspective and shape how you come off as an advisor.

Truly you want your readers to embrace what BDSM has to offer (good) --- but the translation of your own experiences as a broad template for others sometimes strikes me as a little off.

I know your project, I read the other thread. Folks there, including me, were skeptical. You too were skeptical, citing several crash and burn endings to your relationships when "feelings" popped up. The threadline thesis rebuttal to your project was the unrealistic expectation of keeping everything on a third-date level of expectation, excitement, and feeling. That's a bit of doomed project with a single person and a complex one with a married person.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/27/2007 4:43:25 AM >

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