More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (Full Version)

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SuzanneKneeling -> More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/27/2007 11:35:18 AM)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/26/AR2007102602402.html?hpid=topnews

'I Don't Think This Place Is Worth Another Soldier's Life'

After 14 months in a Baghdad district torn by mounting sectarian violence, members of one U.S. unit are tired, bitter and skeptical.

By Joshua Partlow
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, October 27, 2007; Page A01



lovinglylost -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 4:53:44 AM)

I couldn't agree with you more... I could write you a LONG novel about the "war" or "operation" or whatever the heck they want to call it but I'll just share why I feel strongly and may be bias.... my husband/Dom is serving over there right now. Yes they get to do some good, but the cons greatly out number the pros. Thanks for posting. And for caring about the troops!!!



SimplyMichael -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 8:46:18 AM)

But but but somewhere they built a school and they never cover that!

Course they also never cover the fact that they have ignored every tenent of counter insurgency strategy learned over the last fifty years either.



philosophy -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 9:52:59 AM)

http://www.mastersofhorror.net/ click on season 1, then the show Homecoming.....

.....now if the phony soldiers are like that then Limbaugh has a reason to be worried......



cyberdude611 -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 11:39:41 AM)

Dont you find it interesting how the only comments the media decides to air are from soldiers critical of the war? How often do we hear from soldiers that support the war on CNN? Never.

Of course if you look hard enough in an army of 160,000.......someone is going to be against the war.

That kind of crap may fool the uneducated....but taking numerous college statistics classes....the first rule of statistics is? The view of one (or even the view of some) are not represenative of the population. You cannot make that inference without data.



farglebargle -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 12:00:41 PM)

I don't think the article in any way suggested that any one quoted individuals beliefs were representative of ALL the soldiers deployed.

I think the real pull-quote is this.

quote:


"It's just a slow, somewhat government-supported sectarian cleansing," said Maj. Eric Timmerman, the battalion's operations officer.


Which sorta encapsulates the entire situation, and explains quite clearly why "Violence is decreasing..." Because all the $OTHER_GUYS are either moved away or dead.


and the final paragraph says volumes:

quote:


The American people don't fully realize what's going on, said Staff Sgt. Richard McClary, 27, a section leader from Buffalo.

"They just know back there what the higher-ups here tell them. But the higher-ups don't go anywhere, and actually they only go to the safe places, places with a little bit of gunfire," he said. "They don't ever [expletive] see what we see on the ground."




cyberdude611 -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 12:31:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I don't think the article in any way suggested that any one quoted individuals beliefs were representative of ALL the soldiers deployed.



No but they didn't make note that it isnt representative. So someone who is ignorant of statistics would easily infer that this group's opinion is proof that the troops dont support the war.

It just shows more evidence of an anti-war media bias.

And again, why dont we ever hear about stories of troops that support the war? Seems the only place those opinions are welcome are on conservative talk radio. The liberal media won't even talk to those soldiers.



farglebargle -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 1:08:30 PM)

quote:


It just shows more evidence of an anti-war media bias.


Good. Everyone should be anti-war. ESPECIALLY Jesus' followers, considering the whole "turn the other cheek" thing...

Considering that the media isn't calling for Bush's incarceration of felony charges for the fraud committed in the run-up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq, I'd say the media is pretty "Pro-Bush".

As long as the question, "Why isn't he sitting in a prison cell awaiting trial?" isn't asked, the media is doing *exactly* the job GE and Westinghouse desire.




cyberdude611 -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 7:00:26 PM)

I dont see how it is going to be a good thing if the US fails and/or pulls out of Iraq and that government falls apart.

Now you may be critical of Bush, you may not agree with the evidence that lead to the war, but you need to understand that if that if we leave and it falls apart, there is going to be a very serious problem in that region that will have global consequences. The stability of the region is at stake here. And if you read up on the social, political, and ethnic history of this particular area....you would understand that.



Bufotenin -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 10:21:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I dont see how it is going to be a good thing if the US fails and/or pulls out of Iraq and that government falls apart.

Now you may be critical of Bush, you may not agree with the evidence that lead to the war, but you need to understand that if that if we leave and it falls apart, there is going to be a very serious problem in that region that will have global consequences. The stability of the region is at stake here. And if you read up on the social, political, and ethnic history of this particular area....you would understand that.


That is the sad truth.

On the other hand, a big part of the reason for the growing pessimism that's made a pullout a la Vietnam an increasing possibility is the "stay the course" policy and the administration's insistence that anything other than positive reports on the situation are the result of liberal media spin... something you seem partial to.

If you seriously think the troops on the ground, many of whom are on their 2nd or 3rd tours, who are getting shot at, seeing their friends get killed and injured, and witnessing the atrocities the Iraqis are committing against once another aren't growing increasingly tired and skeptical about the prospects of success given the events of the past four years (like the civilians here in the States are), I'd like to know your rationale. I get the chance to meet a lot of marine vets due to the bases here in San Diego and an increasing number seem to believe, as an (correction... not "ex". Once a marine, always a marine) marine co-worker struggling to reassimilate into civilian society told me three weeks after his brother was killed by an IED, "it's FUBAR". 

Maybe, just maybe, instead of outright dismissing the views of the few interviewed soldiers (who are no less risking their lives in service of this country than any others) as "liberal media bias" irrepresentative of the majority, you should consider that maybe, just maybe, they have legitimate reasons for their skepticism and consider what those might be. 



Termyn8or -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 10:27:43 PM)

sectarian cleansing ?

I want one motherfucker on this planet to fully and completely explain to me what the difference is between that and ethnic cleansing.

And I don't want any gibberish about who is doing it. Apparently it is alright when some people do it and not when others do it. I want to see a real difference here between sectarian and ethnic cleansing.

Do you think anyone in the world can provide that ?

Wonder why I did not go into politics.

T



Bufotenin -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 10:43:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

sectarian cleansing ?

I want one motherfucker on this planet to fully and completely explain to me what the difference is between that and ethnic cleansing.

And I don't want any gibberish about who is doing it. Apparently it is alright when some people do it and not when others do it. I want to see a real difference here between sectarian and ethnic cleansing.

Do you think anyone in the world can provide that ?

Wonder why I did not go into politics.

T


It's the difference between an ethnicity and a religious sect. Religion is part of ethnic heritage, but because the groups killing one another are so ethnically similar and are killing one another on the basis of religious denominations it's simply more accurate to call it 'sectarian cleansing'.



pinkme2 -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 10:47:49 PM)

Let's see.... ask enough young men, far from mommy, daddy, and girlfriends, in a foreign country, in possible danger about if they wanna come home or if they think the war is a good idea...  and I wonder what a few possible responses there are??


From my experience in the military, it's not too difficult to find those that will grumble, especially when circumstances get hard. 

Send them care packages if you all feel for them so much.






SimplyMichael -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/28/2007 11:09:57 PM)

I just wonder how long people are going to continue to follow President Custer?  How many battles does he have to lose, how many times does he have to be three steps behind the bad guys, how many times can he change the "goal" for this war before his worshipers start laughing when he speaks of "victory"?

I have sympathy for those who weren't educated well enough or too naive and who supported/believed the government late in the Vietnam war but not this time.  Besides the stunningly obvious mistakes Bush's dad and Cheney spoke about, there is plenty of evidence to show that by definition there is no "victory" in Iraq for America.  For Chevron, the Saudi's, and Halliburton sure, but not for America.  It was painfully clear before the first shot was fired and tens of thousands of dead and maimed American's later, it is ever clearer.




farglebargle -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/29/2007 1:02:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I dont see how it is going to be a good thing if the US fails and/or pulls out of Iraq and that government falls apart.


I don't see how it affects us in the United States in ANY WAY what happens to the Iraqi Government.

Or are you going to suggest all the Unlawful Domestic Surveillance ( why would AT&T & Verizon need Immunity if they didn't break the Law??? ), Homeland Security and TSA bullshit completely worthless, and that the only thing holding back Armageddon is the continued occupation of Iraq by US troops?

quote:


Now you may be critical of Bush, you may not agree with the evidence that lead to the war, but you need to understand that if that if we leave and it falls apart, there is going to be a very serious problem in that region that will have global consequences. The stability of the region is at stake here.


What stability? The peace that's broken out between the Palistinians, Syraians, Lebanese, and Israelis? Or the peace between Sunni and Shia? Or the Peace between the Turks, Armenians, and Kurds?


quote:


And if you read up on the social, political, and ethnic history of this particular area....you would understand that.


Yeah, it's been that way since Cain and Able. You think YOU got the solutions?

Well, you've had FOUR FUCKING YEARS of Occupation. You don't got shit for solutions.

You're just too damn proud to admit you fucked up so bad.

Get over it.

People are dying because of that false pride.

Why do you hate them so much you'd rather hold onto your false pride and let them die, than let them come home to their families?



joanus -> RE: More of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" speak out on Iraqi Civil War (10/29/2007 7:07:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Dont you find it interesting how the only comments the media decides to air are from soldiers critical of the war? How often do we hear from soldiers that support the war on CNN? Never.



You would be hard pressed to find a soilder who still supports the war who isn't dead.

For you I suggest sitting in the middle of a fire fight and see just how long it takes for you to stop enjoying it and start shitting your pants. War is never a good thing, someone always gets hurt and its usually civilians. This goes double for wars like this one which where totaolly unnessecary and unprevoked. Once again America shows the world just how stupid it is. The mess in the Middle East has been going on for well over a thousand years and will continue for at least another thousand years til they kill each other off completely and there is no one left to fight, then others will fight over what is left.



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