RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........

RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (Full Version)

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RealityLicks -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 8:47:54 AM)
I don't have a nectar card, they're one step from id cards! You'd like Barcelona though, don't rule it out - at this time of year you can probably still get in the sea. I've had some great times in Liverpool and Manchester and have very fond memories from (non-fet) clubbing days. To be honest, the thing I miss most when not in London is less the diversity, although that might be the case over time. It's more the sense of anonymity you only get in a metropolis. Lots of cities in Europe are more beautiful in their way and of course, people are the same everywhere but I start to feel cramped if I can't get away into a new scene when I feel the urge.

RealityLicks -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 8:51:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks Times have moved on since then. Glad you have, too. So have I. I had enough of class snobbery when I lived in Britain which is why I chose to live abroad and bring my eldest daughter up in a more eqalitarian society where she wouldn't be penalized because of her accent or where she came from. This muppet is good value! Did I say irony was dead? And to clarify, when I said "glad you'd moved on", I meant you, meatlever.

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 8:52:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheMsScarlet quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Her quote as far as I am concerned is total shite. So nice to see that you're offering us all an alternative pov by demonstrating the polite and enlightened attitudes available outside of London. It's lovely to watch you research the subject, check back to the original context of the snipped quote made by NG, and then address the points logically and with reason. No doubt you are celebrated everywhere for your ability to raise the tone of debates with your errudition. MsScarlett, the intention isn't/wasn't to pull your post to pieces. Of course there's some truth in what you say. It's an interesting topic of conversation all the same, and with a bit of time to kill etc.....'thought it would make a decent thread.

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:01:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent a) Well, would you believe it, we have 5 Englishmen/women on this thread who spend time in other countries without resorting to casual violence and alcoholism, and all seem to value the worth of other people/countries; the defence is gaining strength. Not exactly a representative sample NG, a few self selecting people, I'm sure you'd agree? Indeed, the ability to comprehend the points being made and to respond here would indicate still further that this sample is far from being anything like representative of our dim witted and ignorant compatriots who are by far in the majority. Not that its their fault particularly - they live in a culture where the ability to debate without shouting names and eventually getting into a fist fight is evidence not of reason, but of being in the wrong. E

meatcleaver -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:07:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks Times have moved on since then. Glad you have, too. So have I. I had enough of class snobbery when I lived in Britain which is why I chose to live abroad and bring my eldest daughter up in a more eqalitarian society where she wouldn't be penalized because of her accent or where she came from. This muppet is good value! Did I say irony was dead? And to clarify, when I said "glad you'd moved on", I meant you, meatlever. Keep muppeteering reality. London is and will always be a shit hole where people trample on people for money, that is its raison d'etre. The white Londoners I remember, on the whole weren't too happy about all the foreigners in their midst. The middleclass lived in white areas and the workingclass had to put up with their lot. It wasn't the happy multicultural shangrila you paint. My daughter was only one of three white children in a school of 500 (mainly asian). A couple of streets away there was a school o0f mainly white children with a supporting cast of carribean children. Racism amongst all racial groups was rife.

Politesub53 -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:11:35 AM)
NG..... i have always been peasant stock, despite popular belief Dickens was writing about the truth. London had slums, its just now they are high rise. I wouldnt have swapped a minute of it, people left keys hanging on string in letter boxes, neighbours were expected to let themself in and wait, helping themself to food and drink. I doubt it was much different than up north. The only complaint i had on my travels through America is " Theres no fackin chips. " Just fries and they just aint the same. [;)]

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:12:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks I don't have a nectar card, they're one step from id cards! You're not far wrong, I can't wait until the ID cards come in.....people stopping me in the street and asking who I am like a lost dog.....it's gonna be just great! 'Think I might go the whole hog and ask if the police if they can do me a collar complete with my name and address in case I momentarily forget myself.....better to be safe than sorry, especially in the climate of fear. quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks You'd like Barcelona though, don't rule it out - at this time of year you can probably still get in the sea. Yeah, I've only heard good things about Barcelona, but you know the climate's different up here...we don't like the sun, in fact we don't see the sun.......so it had to be the winter climes of Vienna and Bratislava. 'Really looking forward to Vienna....'haven't done a lot of research yet, but I know they have a Freud museum, so it will be interesting. I'll definitely get over to Barcelona soon enough. quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks I've had some great times in Liverpool and Manchester and have very fond memories from (non-fet) clubbing days. To be honest, the thing I miss most when not in London is less the diversity, although that might be the case over time. It's more the sense of anonymity you only get in a metropolis. Lots of cities in Europe are more beautiful in their way and of course, people are the same everywhere but I start to feel cramped if I can't get away into a new scene when I feel the urge. Makes perfect sense to me; I was born and bred in a village, so Manchester is anonymity to me. There's no substitute for opportunity, and London has it in abundance, so I can see the attraction. My best memories of London are a mixed/gay club called The Fridge that used to be near Brixton, and standing in the middle of Soho one night at 2 in the morning where just about every member of the community was represented.......transvestites, gay, straight, bikers, charvers, drunks, football lads, people walking their dogs through the hedonism and chaos etc....just as life should be.

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:18:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Not that its their fault particularly - they live in a culture where the ability to debate without shouting names and eventually getting into a fist fight is evidence not of reason, but of being in the wrong. E Well, let's set the wheels of change in motion.......no more bickering and squabbling. You'll need to tell our politicians though, because they only went into politics so they can all laugh at each other in the Houses of Parliament.

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:21:01 AM)
Hmmm. Well, Bratislava is a shithole NG; imagine the worst parts of Manchester with the traffic system of the Midlands, alongside dirty buildings and people so dense even the Romanians make jokes about them. Go to Prague instead - much nicer, but for parties of (you guessed it) pissed up Brits. Vienna has the most amazing architechture - ruined by the ring road running past it, and more assorted homeless immigrants wandering the streets than anywhere else I've been. E

Lordandmaster -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:22:33 AM)
Ahh, but look on the bright side: the whores in Bratislava are much cheaper than in Prague. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Well, Bratislava is a shithole NG; imagine the worst parts of Manchester with the traffic system of the Midlands, alongside dirty buildings and people so dense even the Romanians make jokes about them. Go to Prague instead - much nicer, but for parties of (you guessed it) pissed up Brits.

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:26:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Ahh, but look on the bright side: the whores in Bratislava are much cheaper than in Prague. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Well, Bratislava is a shithole NG; imagine the worst parts of Manchester with the traffic system of the Midlands, alongside dirty buildings and people so dense even the Romanians make jokes about them. Go to Prague instead - much nicer, but for parties of (you guessed it) pissed up Brits. They dont have whores in Slovakia, LaM! The women are so ugly, they pay the men to sleep with them. Plenty more Slovak jokes available at www.czech-humour.cz E

philosophy -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:27:30 AM)
FR ......lets look at the language. English, particulary as spoken in the UK, is like a caddis fly larvae....stealing words from other languages and making them our own. Creating a sort of hodgepodge of lingo. Straight off the top of my head we have french words, latin, german, welsh, indian, greek and spanish words used regulary. Many people don't even recognise the cosmopolitan nature of the language that we speak. From my point of view this speaks to a willingness to accept ideas from other cultures.....which is not a trait usually associated with xenophobia.

Politesub53 -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:28:43 AM)
NG The Fridge was originally a cinema, it was called the ABC when i was growing up, and before that the Palladium. The Academy was also a cinema called the Astoria, between 1910 and 1915 ten were built in the area. The only cinema now is the Ritzy which is opposite the Fridge Social history of Brixton 101

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:31:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sephy wow.......... do people here live in a different England to me? They must do.... I have travelled extenstively for work and hve to say... England is one of the most enlightened, tolerant, temperant, giving, arrogant, loving, happy diverse (I could go on)places on this planet. People would do well to remember what we have instead of moaning about what we have not. The people of England are never so happy as when you tell them they are ruined. Arthur Murray. There's a lot going for this country; there's room for improvement, but much to be pleased about all the same.

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:37:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The only complaint i had on my travels through America is " Theres no fackin chips. " Just fries and they just aint the same. [;)] 'Truth be told, I'm with you on this one....my bottom lip goes as soon as I find out there's no fish and chips (I manage to keep it under my hat though).

philosophy -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:40:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The only complaint i had on my travels through America is " Theres no fackin chips. " Just fries and they just aint the same. [;)] 'Truth be told, I'm with you on this one....my bottom lip goes as soon as I find out there's no fish and chips (I manage to keep it under my hat though). ......there's a damn good chippy in Prince Rupert, Northern BC.... [:D]

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 9:51:30 AM)
Fish & chips - the only aspect of cuisine available in the UK which has suffered from recent immigration. I mean, those original Italian families that started the whole thing? They could really cook a wonderful meal. But they all seem to have sold up to Turks and assorted others - who cant prepare fish and chips anything like it used to be! Albeit, we must also lay the blame at the door of the nanny state - cooking this proud tradition in healthy frying media is just not the same. And what were they thinking when they banned the use of old newspaper for wrappings? The ink we all consumed might just be the secret ingredient. Still, its not all bad - the ersatz curry sauce now available was unknown in the old days, and is the perfect accompaniment to soggy batter, as well as an ideal means of putting some flavour back into our signature dish. E

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 10:25:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy FR ......lets look at the language. English, particulary as spoken in the UK, is like a caddis fly larvae....stealing words from other languages and making them our own. Creating a sort of hodgepodge of lingo. Straight off the top of my head we have french words, latin, german, welsh, indian, greek and spanish words used regulary. Many people don't even recognise the cosmopolitan nature of the language that we speak. From my point of view this speaks to a willingness to accept ideas from other cultures.....which is not a trait usually associated with xenophobia. Add a few Old Norse words, too.....such as beck (which is a Durham word for a stream), luck etc. Spot on. England is a mongrel 'race' with a mongrel language......by as early as the 1000, England was a mix of pre-Celts, Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes...the Norman conquest added a little seasoning...followed by Huguenots, Russians, Poles, Irish, recent immigrants from the colonies. And, this has been of huge benefit to us, because it's enabled a willingness to take on board others' ideas and use them to our advantage, a willingness to learn, adapt and mix and match to come up with the best solution.......so the modern world is basically Made in England.....Football, Boxing, Rugby, Golf (well, Scottish) Horse Racing, Mountaineering, even Skiing (and we don't have the climate!), modern tourism with the package holiday, the first moern luxury hotel (The Savoy), the world's first computer, countless inventions and industrial innovation (far too much to mention), postage stamps, boy scouts, modern insurance, detective novels, banking, forms of land and tenure....even today, 25% of the world's top 100 medicines are British designed. Quite impressive for a small nation, and I think our lack of xenophobia has been a key factor in our success. Unlike say cultural nationalism in Germany and France where they have a history of racial and breeding theories, the English have a history of getting in the garden shed and designing something. I think what MsScarlett describes is the yob element that is far more to do with achievement in youth culture than it is xenophobia. Edited for spelling.

TheMsScarlet -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 10:30:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver So have I. I had enough of class snobbery when I lived in Britain which is why I chose to live abroad and bring my eldest daughter up in a more eqalitarian society where she wouldn't be penalized because of her accent or where she came from. The bizarre thing about British snoobery is that it works in two directions, those above sneer at those below whilst those below sneer upwards. In other countries people see education and the gaining of skills as things to achieve, they consider buying a nice home and driving a good car something to aspire to. In Britain they'd key your car, smash your windows and rather live in a cave than admit that they have the same educational opportunities as those that manage to succeed in life yet pissed it all down the drain rather than be seen as raising themselves above their peers. It never fails to amaze me.

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 10:41:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Well, Bratislava is a shithole NG. I've had a look at a few websites and it looks a nice enough place. We have a floating hotel right in the centre, on the danube, overlooking Bratislava Castle. There's a nightclub in the hotel, too, so if we don't pick up a few Svetlanas in town, there'll be a last port of call to get something together. 'Got to be happy with that!. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Go to Prague instead - much nicer, but for parties of (you guessed it) pissed up Brits. I've been to Prague a couple of times......spent 8 nights there and 5 driving around the Czech Republic.....went to Karlov Vary where Karl Marx used to use the hot springs for inspiration. Nice people the Czechs - quiet, reserved, but warm and pleasant all the same. Prague is impressive, great music scene there, too...didn't see any pissed up Brits. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Vienna has the most amazing architechture - ruined by the ring road running past it, and more assorted homeless immigrants wandering the streets than anywhere else I've been. E Well, it's all a learning experience, so we'll see. 'Really looking forward to Vienna.

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