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Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/29/2007 8:18:35 AM

AAkasha

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Femdoms, how often do you find yourself trying to read the mind of a submissive and get a sense of what he is hoping for/wanting/needing? Have you struggled with trying to find that out, without losing the power exchange intensity, without having it seem anything like you are just servicing him? ("Does he need/want to cum badly or does he want to be denied?" "Does he want more pain right now, or is he close to the edge?" "Does he need me to be even more cruel, or is he just about now thinking 'who the hell is this lunatic bitch'?")

For me, I feel like I dominate in two clear mindsets. One is "Selfish domination" and one is "Service domination." Note that even in "service domination" mode, I am not - by any stretch of the imagination - doing as told/directed/whined/hinted at by my partner. I am just taking his needs/wishes/dreams into consideration, and my mood is to play with pushing those buttons and keeping him motivated and fulfilled. And, the reality is that a submissive will stop enjoying the power exchange all together if he NEVER gets what he wants. Fortunately, submissives vary greatly on how high/specific their wish list is, and many are not very demanding at all. Often it's not even really "demands," it's a matter of what things - at that moment - will put him in the mindframe I want him in.

The other mode, "Selfish domination," is where I operate from primarily. Ideally, I would have this all the time. Of course, that's fantasy world. But there are times I dominate completely from this place, and my partner knows it. He also knows that if his hopes/dreams/desires are not satisfied at this moment in time, so be it. There will be other times. But my needs at that moment include not having to worry about his needs. It allows me to dominate from a much more clear mindset and really get into it. If I am not at all distracted, I am able to really enjoy myself. It can get a little tricky, because it's possible to dominate from both mindsets in the same few hours, but I am only in ONE AT A TIME - they don't overlap.

I think one of the challenges submissives have with their non kinky wives/girlfriends is they feel their partner is dominating 100% from the "service domination" mindset, and it makes it impossible for the submissive to feel he's truly being dominated. To be honest, subs, all femdoms operate from that POV at some point; but we are just more skilled at hiding it. Ever since I was young, dominating vanilla guys, I knew that in order to get what I want, I had to give him what he wanted/needed - but only in tiny little pieces, like dangling a carrot - so that I could keep him wanting to surrender to me. For all men it was different, though - for some it was affection, others it was ego stroking, others it was simply sexual intimacy. For many/most, it's the satisfaction of knowing he is turning me on. For submissive men, it gets more complicated, because their fantasies are tangled in there also. The trick is to identify those, but do it in a manner that does not lead to a dynamic where he feels in control.

Also, not all of this is about "what his fantasies are," it's about what -- at THAT moment -- will make him fall more victim to his own arousal, or push up against his limits at the right time, etc. This is a sometimes complicated and demanding headspace to be in - to be maintaining control, but trying to read someone. That's why I can't be in "service domination" mindframe very much, and at the core, my domination will always be selfish. It's also why I need partners that are fairly low maintenance with not a lot of fantasies that are specific, and ones that really are motivated by being the "prey" to a "selfish domination" style femdom.

Talking to partners outside of "kink time" is the best time to find out what those buttons are for moments of "service domination," but the truth is, a lot of it is so specific to what's going on at a given moment, that cannot be the only way. Sometimes new fantasies evolve, sometimes a man is in a position he never thought he would be in. It's also so much a matter of how well you know a person. I have been dominating the same man for more than six years - so not only is he fairly low maintenance (there's never any doubt that his needs will be met - at some point - but really, when I dominate, it's on my terms). But as I move from monogamy to poly, I find that I am back to square one with new partners, trying to walk the line.

Not sure if any of this makes sense, but I would certainly like to hear from other femdoms regarding whether or not they have mindsets that fit these categories, and from submissive men if they recognize this in their partners.

Akasha

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RE: Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/29/2007 9:22:09 AM

MistressFaye1

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Akasha,

I fully understand what You mean. I too find Myself in two spaces. What's interesting to Me is, the closer I feel a connection with My subs/slaves the more I am willing to ensure their needs are met but in My own time and way. This makes them loyal to say the least. With slaves/subs that are in training, I tend to be much more selfish. To Me, it doesn't matter what they want because I feel My mission is to find the limits, help them explore and understand themselves.

So many have come to Me having the desire to serve but are clueless as to how or what it entails from a psychological stand point. I take care with them and slowly increase the intensity of what W/we do. There are times when a new Domme/Dom will ask for My assitance dealing with Their submissives/slaves and I am totally selfish in that domination.

I agree with You, it's hard work at times to maintain a balance but it's worth it. I'm in an interesting situation that could very well lead to a poly situation in the long run. For both of My submissives O/our wants and needs seem to be the same. My challenge will be to continue to go beyond what they "think" My expectations are. This forces Me to use more mindgames and control vs. actual physical domination.

Being able to get into the mindset of a submissive takes a lot of time and it's almost therapeutic in a way. But once I get into the mind, I know the internal workings and that helps Me keep them guessing and they find themselves put into a different kind of subspace they can't get to any other way.

I enjoy this and it pleases Me when they get there. Even though this is more difficult... the results are well worth it for A/all of us. It keeps them grounded and totally focused on My needs.

Service domination is necessary at times but it's like You said "I am not - by any stretch of the imagination - doing as told/directed/whined/hinted at by my partner."

Many times Dommes tell Me their submissives aren't long term and that they are there one minute and gone the next. I've asked them if they take into consideration they won't stay if they don't have their needs met, at least some of the time in Your own time. When the answer is no---I ask if She would keep a submissive around if he didn't meet Her needs? Of course the answer is, no and it's at that point that the hammer falls because the next question I ask is, "why should You then expect a submissve to stay if he isn't getting what he wants?" Ahhh the power of the light bulb effect.

I really enjoy Your posts and the questions You pose! I look for them here.

Mistress Faye

< Message edited by MistressFaye1 -- 10/29/2007 9:48:05 AM >

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RE: Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/29/2007 3:32:10 PM

Dragynsfury

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Ladies,
Very well put. All relationships are give and take so to speak. You both put it into perfect perspective. I try to operate from both -get what I want and give them what they want at the same time. I use "non kink time" to discuss what we each want, how something we've done worked out, feelings, concerns, improvement etc. Just as I expect them to try to anticipate my needs I also try to anticipate their needs and watch for body language to tell me how things are going and if I need to kick it up a few notches or bring it down a few.

Awesome topic. Thought provoking.

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RE: Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/29/2007 3:38:11 PM

HottLicks

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Thank you both for the post! I relate to both and enjoyed reading them and thinking of so many things on a personal level. I feel confident in my ability to find a good match for me and knowing I can meet his needs without threat to my status so to speak, get what I want. I love the game of it all. In fact we do a lot of laughing about it all. I am not at all sensitive. I love being in a place where I have to ask if he is trying to top or if he thinks I am there to service his fantasy or needs because that opens the doors for many lessons on who is who and why patience is a virtue. hehe

I let my submissive know his needs will be met, but they get met in my time, in my way and with his acceptance of it being my time and way. It is all in the trust we form before I will even get involved in anything deeper. I get to know the mind so that I can know how to play with him. Does that make me a service mistress? I think not. It is just my way of knowing with confidence when I do something or play a mind game or work a manipulation to bring about certain things; it is done my way and his way which is to do it my way because of the foundation laid.

Mine knows with a certain laugh or a cocked eye brow or my little comments or name calling of 'brat' or 'topper' with that certain look, that he has come real close and might want to smile, take a step back and wait on mistress. lol So much fun!

I take it all seriously, but am not too serious about myself and I love the fun of it all. To me a great play time includes tears of pain and laughter, but whether I am coming from one mindset or the other, it all works out the same. It is fulfilling to both, but I am the main objective in any mindset.

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RE: Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/29/2007 4:22:17 PM

MistressDolly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Femdoms, how often do you find yourself trying to read the mind of a submissive and get a sense of what he is hoping for/wanting/needing? Have you struggled with trying to find that out, without losing the power exchange intensity, without having it seem anything like you are just servicing him?

For me, I feel like I dominate in two clear mindsets. One is "Selfish domination" and one is "Service domination." Note that even in "service domination" mode, I am not - by any stretch of the imagination - doing as told/directed/whined/hinted at by my partner. I am just taking his needs/wishes/dreams into consideration, and my mood is to play with pushing those buttons and keeping him motivated and fulfilled. And, the reality is that a submissive will stop enjoying the power exchange all together if he NEVER gets what he wants. Fortunately, submissives vary greatly on how high/specific their wish list is, and many are not very demanding at all. Often it's not even really "demands," it's a matter of what things - at that moment - will put him in the mindframe I want him in.

The other mode, "Selfish domination," is where I operate from primarily. Ideally, I would have this all the time. Of course, that's fantasy world. But there are times I dominate completely from this place, and my partner knows it. He also knows that if his hopes/dreams/desires are not satisfied at this moment in time, so be it.

I think one of the challenges submissives have with their non kinky wives/girlfriends is they feel their partner is dominating 100% from the "service domination" mindset, and it makes it impossible for the submissive to feel he's truly being dominated.

Also, not all of this is about "what his fantasies are," it's about what -- at THAT moment -- will make him fall more victim to his own arousal, or push up against his limits at the right time, etc. This is a sometimes complicated and demanding headspace to be in - to be maintaining control, but trying to read someone.

Generally, whenever I think of "play" or "sessions" between two adults, I think of "service domination" from the Top to the receiving Bottom/Bottom Submissive. Whether the Service Top also dominates in other areas outside of play, is another story. However, if "playtime" is the only time there's an exchange of power between the two adults, the Top is essentially the Service Dominant, even if the play excites her/him more than the Bottom/ Bottom Submissive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

That's why I can't be in "service domination" mindframe very much, and at the core, my domination will always be selfish. It's also why I need partners that are fairly low maintenance with not a lot of fantasies that are specific, and ones that really are motivated by being the "prey" to a "selfish domination" style femdom.

I would imagine this style excites most of your play partners the most :) Nothing wrong with being a little greedy (it, consequentially, is what brings your males to amazing places, I am sure).

< Message edited by MistressDolly -- 10/29/2007 4:23:41 PM >

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RE: Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/29/2007 7:36:13 PM

TNstepsout

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I am just beginning to wade into this mine field. It's tricky but I hope very rewarding. I'm glad you started this thread because I have been wondering about this exact kind of thing. Especially as I'm finding my stride as a newbie Domme I have concerns that sliding too much to pleasing him means I might lose authority, while on the other hand if I don't do anything for him I might lose my sub! Either way, I guess it's really the same thing. I'm glad to know this is something all Femdoms face (part of the territory), not just new ones like me.

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RE: Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/30/2007 1:05:45 AM

MasterFireMaam

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I used to do a lot of "meet and beat", showing bottoms, mostly men, that things aren't nearly as terrifying as they think. It got old...mainly because I was getting little back and I wasn't playing how I wanted. I began to feel like I was being sucked dry, so to speak. I stopped because I began to feel that my service wasn't fully appreciated. Now, if I play as a service Top, it's for my slaves and/or friends. My girl needs a specific kind of play to feel revived and grounded. The play, while interesting, doesn't really 'do it' for me. But, our relationship isn't based on play, so I'm more than happy to service Top her as needed and she can then 'service bottom' to MY kind of play. *grin* I highly doubt our relationship would truly work long term if we were monogamous and sex partners. Since we're not, we are quite happy with our service and spirit based relationship.

Master Fire

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RE: Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/31/2007 5:16:32 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressFaye1

Akasha,

I fully understand what You mean. I too find Myself in two spaces. What's interesting to Me is, the closer I feel a connection with My subs/slaves the more I am willing to ensure their needs are met but in My own time and way. This makes them loyal to say the least. With slaves/subs that are in training, I tend to be much more selfish. To Me, it doesn't matter what they want because I feel My mission is to find the limits, help them explore and understand themselves.

I wanted to comment on this paragraph specifically. Many subs comment about how domination and the related relationship must be a two-way street. But how do people define which way the scales are tipped during the courting stages of a relationship?

Subs, do you think it's entirely unfair for a dominant woman to operate in "selfish domination" mode entirely during the initial stages, when she's deciding whether or not she wants to get more serious? Do you lose interest and leave if your needs are not being met (kinky needs)? Do you feel pressured to submit to all of her fantasies and ignore your own fantasies, because you feel lucky to be in the initial stages of a relationship at all?

Akasha

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RE: Service domination vs. selfish domination - 10/31/2007 5:23:17 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly

Generally, whenever I think of "play" or "sessions" between two adults, I think of "service domination" from the Top to the receiving Bottom/Bottom Submissive. Whether the Service Top also dominates in other areas outside of play, is another story. However, if "playtime" is the only time there's an exchange of power between the two adults, the Top is essentially the Service Dominant, even if the play excites her/him more than the Bottom/ Bottom Submissive.

It's interesting - I think I am the total opposite! When I think of "play" as in "sessions," I am far more likely to be in "selfish domination" mode. It's the fetishy side of me. My need to satisfy my desires for certain reactions from men (fear, helplessness, surrender, humilty, etc.) motivates me to do the play sessions that are rewarding to my desires. Wrapped in that are a host of fetishy acts that never get old for me; bondage, hair pulling, breath control, roleplaying, etc. -- and from there, entire subcategories of fetish type play.

What happens outside of "play time" tends to be when I level-out the relationship. But with a submissive who is hardwired for certain acts (for example, nipple torture or cbt) I will integrate those acts into my bdsm toolkit, so to speak, at a more frequent level than I would if he could care less about them. In my most selfish bdsm scenarios though, I select only acts that delight me.

I wonder if many femdoms "play" as their payment/exchange to submissives in exchange for obedience and servitude. Or, "play" is designed to keep their structure in place - the "play" or "sessions" are there to ensure that the submissive remains in his role and delivers the qualities that the femdom wants outside of playtime. I guess that begs the question:

Ladies, if your man was ultimately submissive to you without needing any motivation in the way of domination (or "play") would you eliminate play entirely? Is bdsm "play" a required spice for you, or is it more to keep your submissive in the right mindset?

Akasha

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