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RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/1/2007 8:02:00 AM

Posts: 6
Joined: 10/15/2007
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Who's this Art everyone keeps mentioning???? His stuff cost alot of cash.

I do custom work and people are always bitching about the price, part of the business. If they don't want to pay it, go buy something else. It's called Free Market.

My stuff is generally 55- 75 % higher than mass produced gear, but it's all hand made and it takes time to design and build.

(in reply to sireninchains)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/2/2007 10:13:32 AM

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Joined: 10/21/2007
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If I may add my added $0.02, once again. For the most part I believe that most of us understand and are good at the “Consumer Game”. I would also like to believe that most of understand there will always be "similar" items in the market place, at widely different prices. Although I am sure there is someone out there that could offer some rationale based on supply and demand, and some other economic principles, I won’t.

My concern lies in issue with the people who would rather whine and complain, then use there god given talent and shop around the free enterprise system we have available in our Western Society. I think these folks have become so accustomed to one stop shopping, that what they’re are really complaining about is this. “OMG, because I don’t like this price, I now have to move my sorry lazy ass, and find some alternative. Our desire for convenience and ease of life is harming us. Look at the results of the Mc D’ customers. Look at where Wal-Mart buys to keep costs cheap. Uhm, ok enough of my rant… I will finish by saying. Shop twice (or more), buy Once

(in reply to tiredofgames10)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/4/2007 5:27:20 PM

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Joined: 10/31/2006
From: DC
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I will always buy hand-made works, over mass produced, may it be steak knives, cuffs, coffee cup, etc. 1 - I like to support artisans 2 - Artisan items are almost always higher quality 3- They are nice conservation pieces 4- It means a lot to mean when I meet the person who made something I will use for years. Yes, I spend a lot of time before I buy a set of steak knives, but man do I enjoy them, and so do my friends. While I would not buy the collar the OP identified, I certainly can appreciate the level of detail and design that went into it.

(in reply to TPE4life)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/5/2007 8:00:32 AM

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Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
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Wan, I have no idea what country you're in, but I can't believe the exchange rate where you are sucks so bad that you came up with that price for a set from those guys. By my own calculations, I came out to around $600 USD.

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Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to wan345)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/5/2007 8:03:13 AM

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From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wnt2srveu

well i am no metal or price expert, but that appears to be quite simply four small chunks of metal, and 1/4inch cable. the collar looks cheap to me, it looks like some kind of homemade shed collar. the cuffs are pretty cool though. they are what you would be paying so much for, all the welding and milling and designing takes a lot of time with metal. still seems kinda high though. if it was a more detailed collar i would say it is worth it, i think the collar brings it down.

Having seen the craftsmanship of these particular collars (and their other merchandise) when I've been in Europe, the price is well worth it. They're far more valuable than a vast majority of the tragic excuses for retail fetish gear we usually see here in the states.

You know what they say about champagne taste and KoolAid pockets.....

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to wnt2srveu)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/5/2007 8:49:27 AM

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Joined: 3/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wnt2srveu

i have had experience with metal, i am not an expert, but that collar is the cheapest looking thing i have ever seen, its made out of 1/8 inch cable. the cuffs are definently worth a pretty penny. but as someone said before, some things are worth more to some then others. the cuffs are cool, but none of it really appeals to my taste. obviously it appeals to the OP's taste, otherwise he would have started this thread. but to me i wouldn't pay $140 for it, letalone 1400.

well, darling....(that wasn't the first word that came to mind) you aren't paying for the cable...you are paying for the creation of what holds the cable in place...

edited to add: and if you had ever worked with metal you would have an inkling of a idea of what creating something like that takes

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 11/5/2007 8:51:06 AM >

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(in reply to wnt2srveu)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/5/2007 8:52:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VadFarkas

Altho I don't consider myself an artist, I do take pride in what I make.I would never copy someone else's work and didn't get the impression chellekitty was implying that I should do that. I was a model maker for inventing studios for over 30 years. In those years there were many parallel developments of items by other inventors but one never copies someone's work on purpose.As far as the pricing, I have as much time if not more in a cuff as I do in a collar, yet I charge less because of perceived value. People erroneously thing because it is smaller it should cost less.Bottom line is that some folks have a champagne taste on a beer budget but that doesn't mean that the champagne maker should sell by the 6-pack.

no, i was not implying that you should do that...i believe that if you really wanted to, you could...however, you have amazing work that is more in his price range...now....about that new 3/8" one....

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to VadFarkas)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/5/2007 8:53:42 AM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

quote:

ORIGINAL: wnt2srveu

well i am no metal or price expert, but that appears to be quite simply four small chunks of metal, and 1/4inch cable. the collar looks cheap to me, it looks like some kind of homemade shed collar. the cuffs are pretty cool though. they are what you would be paying so much for, all the welding and milling and designing takes a lot of time with metal. still seems kinda high though. if it was a more detailed collar i would say it is worth it, i think the collar brings it down.

Having seen the craftsmanship of these particular collars (and their other merchandise) when I've been in Europe, the price is well worth it. They're far more valuable than a vast majority of the tragic excuses for retail fetish gear we usually see here in the states.

You know what they say about champagne taste and KoolAid pockets.....

Precisely. If you want cheap-that's what you get in quality. Poor leather-thrown together with little or no attention to detail. Because that is what caters to people who have no money to spend on better. Or no desire to support something finer.

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(in reply to MisPandora)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/5/2007 2:50:31 PM

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Joined: 7/3/2005
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Art is the issuue here. Some may think it is art. I however do not. Like I said I have had experience in the metal fabrication trade and it is just not worth it. I'm not looking for a work of art nor am I looking to tie anyone up in one either. I am looking for a "clean" set of restraints nothing more. It is just some stainless steel stock and cable. Like I said if I had the facilities to replicate them I would, but I do not have a machine shop in my back yard sorry to say. I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could make the set for $100-$200 worth of material. That is why I have such a hard time justifing the $1400 price tag. I work hard for my money and don't just throw it around all willy nilly like. What can I say? I guess we are all gonna have to agree to disagree. Some think that what they are charging is fair because it is "art" I on the other hand think it is robbery. So I'll leave it at that.

(in reply to sireninchains)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/5/2007 3:01:33 PM

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One more thing. I really disagree with all this "beer and kool-aid budget". I have champagne taste and a champagne budget. That does not mean that I have the word SUCKER tatooed across my forhead. I work hard for my money and don't fancy just throwing it away on over priced things just because someone decided that it was champagne. I shop hard for everthing that I buy kink and vanila to ensure that I am not getting ripped off. So don't assume that because I am bitching about the price of something that I can't afford it maybe I'm complaining because I feel that the something is just not worth it.

(in reply to wan345)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/17/2007 2:43:26 PM

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Joined: 11/17/2007
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Hello

i just found this thread via google and because it is related to SM-factory i will add a few more information to you.
All products i make are individually handmade to measure with the guarantee to make them new if they don´t fit.
You find our prices stupid, but keep in mind that our main market place is Europe. If we export outside the
European Union, we don´t charge the German VAT.
Therefore oure prices in USA are 19 percent less.
In 2001 when the Euro was introduced 1 Euro was about 0.85 USD, today it is about 1,47.

The set of five (one collar, two wrist cuffs and two ankle cuffs, all with detachable ring adapters,
made to measure from stainless steel, width 1 1/4 inch, thickness 1/4 inch) in 2001 was
about 715 USD, today it is 1234 USD (prices without VAT), but we don´t get one Euro-cent more.

And don´t forget ( you say you don´t have a machine park in your back) this machine park has to
be paid as the energy costs , the material, the tools, the patent fees and so on.
And it´s not done with making the cuffs and collars, there are a lot of emails, questions, visits from
customers, book-keeping and so on.

OK, we live in a free market economy and you are not forced to buy our products. There are
hundreds of cheap cuffs and collars on the market. But before you buy please read the complete
John Ruskin citation on our website and accept that there are other people who attach more
attention on quality than on quantity.

with best regards from SM-factory

Hans-F. Weiss

www.sm-factory.de

(in reply to wan345)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/18/2007 2:26:46 PM

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Joined: 10/11/2005
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More a general comment on the original posting than a reply to anyone in particular.

I didn’t like the design of cheap leather cuffs and I didn’t like the price of the well designed ones. So I bought the bits I needed wholesale and made my own and sell some. I now do similar with medieval type ironwork. Now if you start off with ½ a cow’s hide and cut it down into suitable widths, or start hammering a 2 foot length of red hot 5/8th steel you could end up slicing your fingers off or getting the hot end of the bar poke you up the nose. So if you are like me, too mean to pay someone else for their time and skill, make your own and see what is really involved. I think you would then understand that what is superficially a high price is actually quite reasonable.

I agree that there are some bondage items that are overpriced for what they are but I think that is general for any sex aids sold by industries that do not have kink at heart as we do. The cheap stuff is made out of recycled condoms and easily confused with liquorice – so beware!

Generally I agree with those who suggest you find a local ‘hobby for fun and profit’ type kink craftsman but be prepared to wait for the Muse to move them and pay their price without haggling. If you see someone with something you like, ask where they got it and follow the trail to the man or woman who makes the better mousetrap.

I generally find that there are many items sold in Pound Shops* / Charity Shops which can be used for purposes other than that originally intended, or serve as raw materials. Some of the steel I use I buy, but most of it is off-cuts I beg from their skip on the way out for a donation to their tea fund. I also use second hand timber, far more realistic and eco friendly than new.

I know not everyone would prefer my medieval finish. To me the pink powder coated collar and cuff sets are anathema. I’m not knocking the people who make them or those who buy them. Thank Thor we are all different. Polishing my stuff would at least double the price but if you want them shiny I would throw in some emery paper gratis and tell you to get your slave to polish them. That’s what slaves are for!

* Transatlantic translation
Pound shops sell closeout / overproduced goods. Everything is £1 (that’s two $ now!) and Charity shops sell donated items of clothing, bric-a-brac etc

(in reply to sireninchains)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/18/2007 2:59:59 PM

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Joined: 6/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlienDeCybe
get your slave to polish them. That’s what slaves are for!

All well said but this line I have used myself on my Brass collars.

_____________________________

Vad Farkas ~ Ringsmith
See my collars & cuffs at
www.ringofsteel.net

(in reply to AlienDeCybe)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/18/2007 5:05:28 PM

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Like most simple things, people who have never done it can't grasp how complicated something is. Polishing is an art, anyone can make something shiny, making a surface flat AND smooth is an entirely different proposition. Same goes for forming shapes, the concept is simple till you start to calculate "springback" and other things and are trying to form perfect circles.

Woodworking as a concept is quite simple, till you want to do something more advanced than bolt 2x4 pine studs together. You need to consider the fact that wood moves, it expands in width not length, how does the grain flow through the piece, is the joinery appropriate for the construction, etc. There is a vast difference between sanding and scraping/planing a surface smooth. Is the wood sawn on the quarter or is it plain sawn, how stable is it going to be in the long run?

And those are all simply questions of craft, not artistry. The first person who converted a Home Depot sawhorse into a spanking bench was brilliant, the second to do it was a copycat. Same goes for coming up with beautiful attractive objects, it takes an artist to come up with something new. Few have that talent, I don't have it. I am a fine craftsman but my skills as an artist are minimal although the dildos I do I think are inspired as are a couple of the other things but I do not begrudge an artist his living and I find it petty those who do.

(in reply to VadFarkas)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/19/2007 1:49:08 AM

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Joined: 11/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wan345

The collar and restraints picured in this website are amazing and sorry to say their prices are to, but not in a good way. $1400+shipping for a collar and wrist/ankle restraints!!! I have do a little metal fab in my life and through my limited experience it seems like a very high price to me. I like anybody else would expect to pay for nice quality gear, but $1400! I could buy alot of other things with that much money.

Has anyone seen similar products anywhere else on the web?
Any metal fabricators think they could tackle for less $$$?

Looking at the site, it appears they are all hand made to custom fit the measurements you are providing. So your talking about a lot of Man hours worth of work. Lots of services int he US run 20-40 dollars per Man hour.. so the prices could add up quickly. Plus I'm guessing with the custom fit etc, the crafter is probably working at 5-10 dollars per man hour. On top of all this it's a European so your getting you waller raped by the exchange rate, not the manufacture. You can thank the war, the president and sub prime mortgage fiasco for the weak dollar that is raping you wallet if you buy those. I used to live in Germany and at that time i think the rate was 1.02 or something and looking at the workmanship and for custom fit... i would defiantly pay 215 us dollars for that. However the exchange rate now days would prevent me from purchasing them.

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(in reply to wan345)

RE: Stupid High Prices - 11/19/2007 4:13:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wnt2srveu
well i am no metal or price expert,

You are correct about that one. When was the last time YOU made something? Funny how people who have no idea what it takes to make something can offer such helpful insight.

Part of the price, blame George Bush. You did notice during our fun filled adventure in Iraq that the dollar has plummeted in worth. This is a German product hence your going to take a beating in the exchange. Next up this is a German product. You do understand there are diffeent quality levels of metals. When yoiu use high grade metal is jacks up the price. now throw in the fact that each piece is handcrafted to spec, what the heck are you whining about?

Mayb you should just shop in your price range rather than bemoaning what craftsmen charge for their work.

K

(in reply to wnt2srveu)

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