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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/9/2007 2:16:57 AM

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Oh boy...the Op asked Native Americans what they felt. I answered him. Those are my personal beliefs...along with a lot of other Natives I have come to know through the years. If you wish to make this a personal attack so be it. But that is just silly as well.

Being Native and growing up in the 60s and early 70s was more problematic than now. Had to put up with non Natives not drinking out of the same fountain as me, and letting war whoops down the hall when I was in grade school. So being insulted personally on a website is a lot easier than that was.

Especially when it comes from someone in another country, who really has no idea how it was, or is over here. Doubt you have ever seen the poverty we have on a lot of our reservations...casino revenues notwithstanding. Tribes that rake in the money don't share those with non members. Unless it's California.

Oh and yes beliefs should be respected...even us lowly Native Americans. Who really don't understand things or have a right to express opinons. We do have a right to free speech...at least I think we do...especially when asked.

< Message edited by texancutie -- 11/9/2007 2:36:01 AM >

(in reply to MissMagnolia)

RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/9/2007 2:19:44 AM

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Ut oh...Before this turns into a debate on religion, racism and beliefs I'll put in my two pennies. I'm also a Falcon. Almost on the money. It is more accurate than my Chinese zodiac which says I'm a Snake or my "European" one which says I'm an Aries (Ram). This I believe was supposed to be all in FUN. Woooosaaaa folks.

Great thing about America-Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion. Enjoy your beliefs and speak your mind on it all you please...just don't start bashing others.

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(in reply to MissMagnolia)

RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/9/2007 2:38:10 AM

Leira

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I was not raised as a Native American but listened to the wind and rain and was taught respect for various cultures and traditions as a child. Then later I read a book and asked for my animal guide to come to me in a dream. I had a vivid dream that night and still remember it. Learning about the animal that featured in the dream has been helpful to me.

As for most people not having spirit guides... I know that most people do, they just don't know they exist or they don't know how to listen. Sometimes I'm afraid I don't listen as well as I would like to.

Native American is not the only culture to have spirit guides. Aboriginal peoples all over the world have them. The Chinese people have them as well in certain families. (I'm not talking about the Chinese Zodiac, actual guides for each individual like in Native American cultures.)

In the Christian faith, angels are assigned to each individual, these angels hold the same role as spirit guides do, but do not take animal forms. It is both more pure (abstract) and less involved with the Earth, which has both advantages and disadvantages as a belief system.

Spirit guides are present in our collective psyche as a race. Whether the individual has the knowledge to reach their own guides is the only question, but they are there.

The posted website is only a bit of fun. For that, it's not racist, it's merely preying on the gullibility of people who don't know much about Native American beliefs and wouldn't necessarily know that the information presented is not historically accurate. I do wish they had a noticeable disclaimer, however it's still fun.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)

RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/9/2007 2:40:45 AM

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My response was to the OP in regard to Native American spirit guides and Totems or Dodems. That was the original posting. And that was what he asked as well. I do understand what you are saying though.

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/9/2007 2:43:38 AM

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From: Tamaris
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I asked what Native Americans thought because of another's claim that my post was racist. If those NA's that have responded said that they felt it were racist then I would have conceded and made my apologies as it was not my intention to cause a racial slur.I would have been educated by the people themselves and there understand more for my future.

I am also Pagan, that big umbrella that encompasses so many different beliefs,of which I believe the NA belief system may come under.The question, why would I seek to slur pagans like myself.

Being Pagan, oddly I do believe in the existance of the Christian and Islamic God, but they are not for me.Things from my belief system have revealed them selves to me and it is for me to follow and understand what they are saying. Now I do not rule out the possibility of God making an appearance, if they do, then I will learn what there is to be learned, what that existance is showing me.

As for the topic of this post, what animal spirit totem thing, I should say what I am as no-one yet has mentioned it.

Snake/Serpent: Oct 23 – Nov 22

Most shamans are born under this Native American animal symbol. The Snake is a natural in all matters of spirit. Easily attuned to the ethereal realm the Snake makes an excellent spiritual leader. Also respected for his/her healing capacities, the Snake also excels in medical professions. The Snake's preoccupation with matters intangible often lead others to view them as mysterious, and sometimes frightening. True, the Snake can be secretive, and a bit dark – he/she is also quite sensitive, and caring. In a supportive relationship the cool Snake can be passionate, inspiring, humorous, and helpful. Left to his/her own devices, the Snake can be despondent, violent, and prone to abnormal mood swings.

......I thought this interesting, as I have made and wear a silver serpent ring to remind me of something else spiritual.Maybe just coincidence, but one can't help pondering.

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/9/2007 3:19:40 AM

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Geezzzz that was kinda bad.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)

RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/9/2007 3:54:12 AM

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Would also consider calling someone who is Native American a rude cow over their beliefs is a little racist as well.

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 7:08:15 PM

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Hi, Aneirin----
Amusing little poll. :>
I don't use the term 'native American', however, as anyone born here (In America) is technically a native American.
Anyway, it says I am:
Owl: Nov 23 – Dec 21
Changeable and mutable as the wind, the Owl is a tough one to pin down. Warm, natural, with an easy-going nature, the Owl is friend to the world. The bearer of this Native American animal symbol is notorious for engaging in life at full speed, and whole-hearted loves adventure. This can be to his/her detriment as the Owl can be reckless, careless, and thoughtless. Owls make great artists, teachers, and conservationists. However, due to his/her adaptability and versatility – the Owl would likely excel in any occupation. In a supportive, nurturing environment the Owl is sensitive, enthusiastic, and an attentive listener. Left to his/her own devices, the Owl can be excessive, overindulgent, bitter, and belligerent.
**Someof this has veracity, some not. About 1/2 and 1/2, imo.
I am very close to the snake in birth date and that has some validity, but I was supposed to be born under the goose date and that has a bit of validity.
Davan

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 7:13:32 PM

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Mine is fairly close

Owl: Nov 23 – Dec 21
Changeable and mutable as the wind, the Owl is a tough one to pin down. Warm, natural, with an easy-going nature, the Owl is friend to the world. The bearer of this Native American animal symbol is notorious for engaging in life at full speed, and whole-hearted loves adventure. This can be to his/her detriment as the Owl can be reckless, careless, and thoughtless. Owls make great artists, teachers, and conservationists. However, due to his/her adaptability and versatility – the Owl would likely excel in any occupation. In a supportive, nurturing environment the Owl is sensitive, enthusiastic, and an attentive listener. Left to his/her own devices, the Owl can be excessive, overindulgent, bitter, and belligerent.

~Lashra

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(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 7:30:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What native American animal symbol are you?

http://www.whats-your-sign.com/native-american-animal-symbols.html

How accurate do you think it is concerning yourself?

(Mine is very accurate even more so than the traditional zodiac)

I be an otter.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 7:31:03 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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Mine came up as Falcon, which is interesting because my totem is also a bird.

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 7:36:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GrrlieGrrl

I don't know much about Chinese culture and the Chinese zodiac, but I do know quite a bit about Native American culture and this is the first time I've ever seen anything about an "animal zodiac." The site makes no reference at all to exactly which of the over 500 distinct and separate Indian Nations that existed this supposed zodiac came from.

This is the first time I've posted anything here. I did so because racism against American Indians is so accepted that it goes under most people's radar. This link is just one example of many.

I've seen this type of zodiac (a slightly different system) generated by a native american, way the hell back in the 80s.

thornhappy

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 7:39:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

I think we all know that most people really don't have spirit guides???

If you're saying they don't really have them, and don't see that as an insult to those of us with a belief, I guess you'll have to live with being a rude, insensitive cow then.

I don't believe in God, but I wouldn't say that most people know he doesn't really exist. Because I respect others right to have their beliefs respected.

A very unimpressive post. To say the least.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 7:48:49 PM

impishlilhellcat

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Mine was a salmon which was pretty accurate.

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 7:52:00 PM

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native american indians did alot of things,no matter what tribe in the land. but it dont matter what animal she found herself to form, i am wolf, but being the protective one, that holds alot of responsibilty and servitude to her alpha one as well, i dont know if that help r make it funny, reading the posts here. many cultures has done this not only the native people. so read r laugh, had to say something. but as u said What Native American Animal are you. Wolf i am.

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 8:30:54 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrrlieGrrl

I don't know much about Chinese culture and the Chinese zodiac, but I do know quite a bit about Native American culture and this is the first time I've ever seen anything about an "animal zodiac." The site makes no reference at all to exactly which of the over 500 distinct and separate Indian Nations that existed this supposed zodiac came from.

This is the first time I've posted anything here. I did so because racism against American Indians is so accepted that it goes under most people's radar. This link is just one example of many.

I would like to clarify something if I may. This site is a watered down version of the Native American Totem Animals. It is no more racist then the book written by Ted Williams titled " Animal Speak" which is a more in depth look into amimal totems and how to find yours and to connect with the Great Spirit.
It doesn't matter which clan or tribe a Native American or Native Canadian is from, animal totems or spirit guides apply to all whether Iroquois, Sioux, Apache, Chippewa, White, Asain etc. Each clan has their own variations of the animal symbolism yet the basic premises is still the same. On this I know what I am speaking, as I have been following the Native path for many years and count many Shamans and Pipe bearers as friends and as teachers.

Shamanism, while most widely attributed to Native Americans, has been associated with other cultures as well. Celtic Shamanism, for example, also has similar animal symbolism (totems or spirit guides). Whether it is Shamanic Ecstasy, Mystical Ecstasy or even Prophetic Ecstasy (which is even prevalent in several modern christian religions, as well) the path of spirituality has common elements and teachings. Some called their guides guardian angels, some saw them as animal totems. At any rate, the Native American Animal Zodiac link, is no more or less applicably relevent to Native American Shamanism, than an apple pie is to a fresh apple. Just my thoughts on the topic.

WinD

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 11/16/2008 9:06:20 PM >

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 8:51:20 PM

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Falcon. Which quite honestly, is almost the same description as the Aries Ram. But I do prefer raptors to sheep!

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 9:06:51 PM

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This Poll is a just for fun, kinda curious, nothing better to do with my time thing . Nothing more, nothing less.

According to it, I am a "Deer".   Some of it is vaguely applicable to me, the rest is not even close.   Chinese astrology says that I am a Dragon. Again, some of that fits, some does not.    A Wiccan friend of mine did a 'complete' astrology chart for me based on my time and place of birth, and she discovered that I am a triple Gemini -- my sun, moon, and rising signs are all Gemini. (and you think that you've got voices in your head??.....)   And her chart was a pretty accurate description of me.

Honestly, anyone who believes that they can find their spirit animal just by looking it up online probably also believes in the Tooth Fairy.   In order to "truly" find your spirit animal, you must first be a Native American. And then you must go on a Vision Quest/Spirit Quest to find your animal guide, and that takes careful, exacting preparation and time.

My wonderful collared boy is 3/4 Cherokee, and he told me of his Vision Quest to find his animal guide. It was a wolf, which is not surprising, as he is of the Wolf Clan Cherokee. Yet according to this poll, his spirit animal is a "Woodpecker".

One of the posters (I think it was gurrrliegrrrrl, pardon me if it was not) spoke of the racism that still exists against the Native Americans to this day, and how it has become so accepted that it 'goes under the radar'.   How very true that is!!! The only genuine "Native" Americans are those to whom this land once belonged, for centuries, until we stole it fom them. Everyone else is just "American born". Your heritage and your roots are not here in this land, they are in Europe, Asia, Africa, or wherever.   You can go back and visit your 'native' land anytime you want.   Native Americans cannot. Their native land no longer exists. All they have left are the small fragments of what they once had that we have forced them to live on (the scattered Reservations).

And don't even get me started on the deplorable state of existence they have to endure on the Rez because of us 'white eyes'.   The high unemployment rates, the poverty, the alcoholism, the drug abuse, the depression, frustration, hopelessness and despair.......

LadyTeazer -- proud and happy Owner of [saberwolf34]
and still a WOW - Wonderful Older Woman

< Message edited by LadyTeazer -- 11/16/2008 9:08:35 PM >

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 9:16:15 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTeazer
(snip)
Honestly, anyone who believes that they can find their spirit animal just by looking it up online probably also believes in the Tooth Fairy.   In order to "truly" find your spirit animal, you must first be a Native American. And then you must go on a Vision Quest/Spirit Quest to find your animal guide, and that takes careful, exacting preparation and time.

My wonderful collared boy is 3/4 Cherokee, and he told me of his Vision Quest to find his animal guide. It was a wolf, which is not surprising, as he is of the Wolf Clan Cherokee. Yet according to this poll, his spirit animal is a "Woodpecker".

One of the posters (I think it was gurrrliegrrrrl, pardon me if it was not) spoke of the racism that still exists against the Native Americans to this day, and how it has become so accepted that it 'goes under the radar'.   How very true that is!!! The only genuine "Native" Americans are those to whom this land once belonged, for centuries, until we stole it fom them. Everyone else is just "American born". Your heritage and your roots are not here in this land, they are in Europe, Asia, Africa, or wherever.   You can go back and visit your 'native' land anytime you want.   Native Americans cannot. Their native land no longer exists. All they have left are the small fragments of what they once had that we have forced them to live on (the scattered Reservations).

And don't even get me started on the deplorable state of existence they have to endure on the Rez because of us 'white eyes'.   The high unemployment rates, the poverty, the alcoholism, the drug abuse, the depression, frustration, hopelessness and despair.......

LadyTeazer -- proud and happy Owner of [saberwolf34]
and still a WOW - Wonderful Older Woman

I'm not going to address anything else you stated, only what I highlighted in red. Not to be redundant, but there are other culturally relevent practices of Shamanism that do not require one to be Native American. Unless, of course, you lean toward the belief that we are All One People. Which of course would make us all Native Inhabitants, not Native Americans, and would transcend cultural bias.

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RE: What native American animal are you? - 11/16/2008 9:50:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Please keep in mind that these are not purporting to be your animal guides, they are intrepretations of the zodiac. I don't recall my NA grandmother ever speaking to this issue of the zodiac but it's just not the same thing at all. Your animal guide is not found by checking your date of birth.

I find it strange how as an animal guide and in other Native American perceptions of the Bear, I don’t see it possessing the “pragmatic, and methodical” tendencies of a Virgo. I see the bear represented as “inner strength” and “knowing when to act” i.e. when to hunt, when to hibernate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bear: Aug 22 – Sep 21
Pragmatic, and methodical the Bear is the one to call when a steady hand is needed. The Bear's practicality and level-headedness makes him/her an excellent business partner. Usually the voice of reason in most scenarios, the Bear is a good balance for Owls. The Bear is also gifted with an enormous heart, and a penchant for generosity. However, one might not know it as the Bear tends to be very modest, and a bit shy. In a loving environment this Native American animal symbol showers love and generosity in return. Further, the Bear has a capacity for patience and temperance, which makes him/her excellent teachers & mentors. Left to his/her own devices the bear can be skeptical, sloth, small-minded and reclusive.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Despite the fun and entertainment value, I think I'll stick with the Greeks** and Chinese for my astrological needs should I ever have any.

** Originally it was a Sumerian Zodiac and the Greeks were just last to interpret it in a long line of succession.

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