...assertive?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

...assertive?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> ...assertive?

Page: [1]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

...assertive? - 11/10/2007 1:24:44 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

In the last few months I have been doing some topping. At first I did it to keep my hand in the game, hone my skills, and maintain the interest in BDSM that is so much a part of my mental makeup. I had resigned myself to giving up my submissive needs after recognizing that there are far too few dominants who "fit" with my needs. I am sort of ok with this.
But one thing continues to bother me.
I am an assertive female who has always gone out of my way to make things happen. I am used to making decisions quickly, and with few regrets.
In the nilla world I meet a lot of men who have that same dynamic in life. But within the kink world I come across more men who give tentative touches, make moves which seem to me to be half-hearted, and act in general.. gentlemanly. A nilla guy will grab me and kiss me. A dominant man will approach me with caution, waiting for me to make the move to kiss.
Is it just me.. or does this seem backward to you too?
I do miss an assertive man.
Kyst

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 11/10/2007 1:25:36 PM >

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

Post #: 1

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 1:30:47 PM

bostontwo

Posts: 43
Status: offline

Maybe dominants are more wary of their strength, and thus try to hold back more?

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 2

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 2:17:15 PM

Aceton

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline

Edited to add: Oops.. you said 'assertive', not 'agressive'.. which makes everything I said here pretty pointless. Still, its a pity to waste a good diatribe...

Hm, well, I couldn't tell you for sure, because I've come across a fair few ungentlemanly dolts in these here parts as well. Perhaps it is because BDSM has that whole 'consensual' thing built right in there, so maybe a Dom is less likely to get all touchy feely and agressive without knowing that the woman in question wants it?

The forceful man is great in romance novels, but I think in RL the sort of man who is going to just grab you and have his way with you is less likely to be a good partner than one who grabs you and has his way with you not just because he wants it, but because you want it to, or you want him to do it when you don't want it, or whatever your particular kink is.

The short version being that the agressive man who 'just' grabs you has a greater than average chance of being an asshole.

The man who has learned to control his agression and releases it in a controlled and appropriate manner is not only yummy as all hell, he might also be in possesion of a brain and the ability to make fantasies come true, even though he doesn't club you over the head and drag you off by your hair the moment you meet him.

< Message edited by Aceton -- 11/10/2007 2:31:11 PM >

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 3

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 2:35:12 PM

azropedntied

Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline

I have found in the bdsm community at large people both male and female that have been living this are far more respectful .Many spaces hold the rule DO NOT touch with out permission , yet in the outside world walk next to a contrustion yard and the women still get wolf wistles and cat calls .I would venture to say also that in our realm men are by far more refined in that setting .Though i can not say that as a blanket statement as there are exeptions to every rule . but maybe thats what your getting ??...

(in reply to Aceton)

Post #: 4

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 2:36:27 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I am an assertive female who has always gone out of my way to make things happen. I am used to making decisions quickly, and with few regrets.

Sounds good to me... lead or follow... just stay the hell out of my way.

quote:

In the nilla world I meet a lot of men who have that same dynamic in life. But within the kink world I come across more men who give tentative touches, make moves which seem to me to be half-hearted, and act in general.. gentlemanly.

Okay, here's what bugs me about that... why is it so many seem to associate "milk toast" with "gentleman"? I was raised to be a gentleman, that included knowing how to dress, how to maintain a home, how to flirt, how and when to kiss, and when to stop. Apparently I grew up in an alternate dimension where being a "gentleman" was a lot more challenging... weird.

quote:

A nilla guy will grab me and kiss me. A dominant man will approach me with caution, waiting for me to make the move to kiss.

Now I'll admit, there've been times I deliberately waited for the lady to make the first move... mostly because I knew she was already hooked and I can be such a bastard.

quote:

Is it just me.. or does this seem backward to you too?

Yup, very much so. I have a theory about it... apparently... some of these "dominant" men... aren't. Shocking, I know... I always was edgy like that.

quote:

I do miss an assertive man.
Kyst

Personally I miss the middle ages... whatcha gonna do?

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 5

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 2:41:49 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bostontwo

Maybe dominants are more wary of their strength, and thus try to hold back more?

Personally... I think you are being waaaaaaay too kind. I think its more likely they're really unassertive individuals who have difficulty taking charge and see this lifestyle as a non-threatening environment where they can feel empowered. Could be way off on that... I been sick all week after all.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to bostontwo)

Post #: 6

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 3:18:10 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

I believe it has more to do with the Vanilla Man and the Dominant Man wanting what they want.

I like doing the throw caution to the wind and try and steal a kiss bit, it's classic and makes most women think you are romantic and gets you a lot of brownie points if of course the kiss is wanted ..... lets not get into what happens when the kiss is not wanted.

As a Dominant I like watching the internal struggle of a girl fighting the urge to kiss me because she wonders it doing so will be okay. I take a sick pleasure in watching a girl bumble about with first intament contact.

Is there some childhood repression that causes this, sure why not, everything you do as an adult can be returned back to your childhood if you ask the right shrink.

I feel that I do it more for the idea that when she kisses me I know for a fact that she wants to. If I kiss her then I have no idea if she wanted the kiss in the first place.

It's knowing that she came to me that makes it feel better to me. Call it waht you will I just call it hot.

As Always

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 7

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 3:27:29 PM

SirJohnMandevill

Posts: 546
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Personally... I think you are being waaaaaaay too kind. I think its more likely they're really unassertive individuals who have difficulty taking charge and see this lifestyle as a non-threatening environment where they can feel empowered.

Depends on the sub's reaction, just as in the vanilla world. If a sub is tentative, cautious or ambivalent about me, I move more cautiously, trying to see if she's really interested (and I in her). If we seem to click right away -- as my former sub and I did -- I'll run with it!

My .02 zlotys. Your milage may vary.

Les (Illegitimate son of Dean Martin and Jackie Onassis).

_____________________________

Iam an eroticist
I am a fully eroticized being
No more neuroses
I found my strip naked soul soup
With the deviant ingredient
---The B-52s

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 8

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 3:48:52 PM

LeatherBentOne

Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline

Perhaps it's because they base their actions on consent, while most in the vanilla world seem to act before thinking that their advances may not always be welcomed.

(in reply to SirJohnMandevill)

Post #: 9

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 4:32:40 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I do think nilla men are more likely to act before thinking. Which for me isn't such a bad thing. If the act is not welcomed I back away. That pretty much makes things clear that maybe a handshake or a peck on the cheek may be a better way to go and it has always worked. Well.. most always. Sometimes you have to throw them over your shoulder so they land on their backs before they recognize it might not have been ok.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

Perhaps it's because they base their actions on consent, while most in the vanilla world seem to act before thinking that their advances may not always be welcomed.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)

Post #: 10

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 4:36:30 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

For me there would be no internal struggle other than this one "ok kiss him fast and get it over with." I see it more in terms of being a puppet master and I don't care for that reaction at all.
Now.. if I was kissed and I liked it, LOL You better believe he knows I liked it. If you like it you move in for a deeper kiss. If you like it you may let out a small sigh or moan. If you don't like it you back away, turn your head, or clench your lips.
Nilla guys seem to catch on to those cues quickly.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
As a Dominant I like watching the internal struggle of a girl fighting the urge to kiss me because she wonders it doing so will be okay. I take a sick pleasure in watching a girl bumble about with first intament contact.

If I kiss her then I have no idea if she wanted the kiss in the first place.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 11

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 4:39:15 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Sadly, I think that world is long gone. Men used to know how to be a gentleman, and when it was ok to cross that line. Flirting, has been converted to winks. Approaching the opposite sex has become contractual rather than personal.
I miss those days.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Okay, here's what bugs me about that... why is it so many seem to associate "milk toast" with "gentleman"? I was raised to be a gentleman, that included knowing how to dress, how to maintain a home, how to flirt, how and when to kiss, and when to stop. Apparently I grew up in an alternate dimension where being a "gentleman" was a lot more challenging... weird.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 12

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 5:24:43 PM

azropedntied

Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline

People- both men and women are afraid to flirt , law suits ,sexual harrasments ,job loss , Yes for the most part those days are gone .I am very much a gentleman , and to say they are gone and those days are also gone is a sad thing .I for one sure hope not .We are still out there allowing a lady to have a seat , open their door s for them ,letting them cut in line at the store ,waving them in front of us while we drive ,helping load items into a car .Lifting heavy object s for them .And that was only my actions today . I know there are more of us out there .No matter the BDSM role i have seen MANY honorable men , in the nilla world also .Smiles though i will take your word on the kissing side as i have no experiance in kissing men nor do i wanna .

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 13

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 5:55:09 PM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

Sweetie, you haven't met me. Try and find me hesitating for a kiss, or failing to take the lead... I tend to go too far in the other direction. But a wink and a smile and I get away with it.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to azropedntied)

Post #: 14

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 5:58:21 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

.

Okay, here's what bugs me about that... why is it so many seem to associate "milk toast" with "gentleman"? I was raised to be a gentleman, that included knowing how to dress, how to maintain a home, how to flirt, how and when to kiss, and when to stop. Apparently I grew up in an alternate dimension where being a "gentleman" was a lot more challenging... weird.

Personally I miss the middle ages... whatcha gonna do?

Edited because I screwed up Padraig's quote box; I had a bad day.

Well, I wish more men grew up in the alternate dimension that you did, because I do not believe being a gentleman and Dominant is mutually exclusive.

And I actually miss the Renaissance Age; I think I belong there more than here.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 11/10/2007 5:59:25 PM >

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 15

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 6:49:29 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Well, I wish more men grew up in the alternate dimension that you did, because I do not believe being a gentleman and Dominant is mutually exclusive.

And I actually miss the Renaissance Age; I think I belong there more than here.

All I can say is... welcome to my South.

Seriously, I seem to have grown up in a very friendly environment. Its normal here for people to strike up conversations with complete strangers as though they were old friends. Despite the fact that its a very conservative area... that's really only in public. What people do behind closed doors is another story. About 10 years ago I was rennovating a house my cousin and I had moved into. We found what apparently were the remains of a "dungeon" in the basement. It included six homemade bunks, ala POW barracks style, three tables with eyebolts on the side, a wooden "cage", an "open" toilet in one corner (no curtain or anything) and an open shower with a drain in the floor. There were a couple of wooden paddles left under things and various other odds and ends. I had a good laugh explaining to my non-lifestyle cousin what it was all really about. Some of it came in handy later

Life's funny like that.

I think there are a lot of men who are hesitant to be assertive... times have changed and I'm sure that's left many men scratching their heads wondering what their "role" is. While feminism did much to enlarge options for women, it also raised questions for men. Traditional ideas of the male gender role were questioned or shattered. So while feminists were busy establishing new gender roles for women... nobody was establishing new ones for men. Personally, I think that's had an affect on men and might even have something to do with why there seem to be so many submissive men these days. Its something I've pondered from time to time.

Course then you get stubborn ones like me who just don't care and establish our own niche in the world anyway. Sometimes that's what it takes to make it. Sink or swim if you know what I mean.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 16

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 8:22:30 PM

PairOfDimes

Posts: 324
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline

From my perspective, I'm aware that I'm more forward and bold than average, and I am aware that I am good at pushing people to get my way. This self-awareness is the cause of why I bother to identify as dominant and hang out in communities of people who either are the same way or who complement me. I compensate for this, and sometimes I over-compensate, because I am invested in the idea of consent--that I need to secure consent from people before walking all over them. That's a product of hanging out with kinky people. So, I take more care with my responses, especially when I'm feeling more dominant, and as a result I sometimes behave less aggressively than the average slightly-pushy bear.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 17

RE: ...assertive? - 11/10/2007 10:49:47 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

It could be perception- you're looking for and expecting/hoping for it more intently with known dominants, so it becomes more of a "thing" when it's absent than in vanillas.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PairOfDimes)

Post #: 18

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> ...assertive?

Page: [1]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.080