RE: Gorean Forum? (Full Version)

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gentlesurrender -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 12:09:39 PM)

well i replied direct as the OP requested

whilst i agree lots of different sections makes things unyieldy at times and it can dilute from the responders.

However it can also concentrate the discussions

i was in favour of the Gorean forum simply because i want to explore it and learn, i dont want to put up threads and posts for a flaming war with those who do not agree and dont understand the lifestyle.

yes i appreciated that others could still respond to threads, but hopefully those that are against such a regime can avoid the threads by not going into the section,

just my thoughts



onceburned -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 1:00:23 PM)

quote:

hopefully those that are against such a regime can avoid the threads by not going into the section


I think all but the most ill-tempered of people could respect the special space afforded by a forum. For anti-Gor people to go in and raise a ruckus would be like God-fearing vanilla types to come into Collarme and blast us for the sinfulness of our ways.

Doing so is not civil discourse, its impolite, and I do not think it would be tolerated by the moderators.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 1:07:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
Taking a flawed poll, has anyone ever met a RT gore person?


Yup...we have met up with several real time Goreans from this very website. They seemed like normal people to me, but my sense of normal is WAY off...


Taggard



perverseangelic -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 8:49:19 PM)

I think if such a forum opened, it would be important to me that the mods be very clear that we were NOT expected to follow certain protocals.

One thing I like about collarme is that we are not obligated to conform to another dominant person's set of rules. I would be very turned off if we were told we must behave a certain way, even if it were in only -one- of the forums. To me, it would indicate a willingness to inforce behavoral rules, beyond simple politeness, which isn't the kind of enviorment I seek out for chat/conversation.



Leonidas -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 8:59:28 PM)

There are a number of us here now. Many of us know, or at least have met each other in person. The Gorean room in chat is consistantly well attended. The threads related to the subject here on the boards are usually very heavily read. It's probably time.

It would be great if questions posed about us were answered by people who lived as one of us, but that's probaby too much to ask, given the tendency of questions in all sections to be answered by just about anyone. I think that the mods will do a fine job keeping the flames and attacks to a minimum. My vote: yes.



subversiveone -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 9:06:52 PM)

If we aren't sending private messages on this topic, id like to add that the only thing lacking on CM is a 'kink/fetish' general discussion.
Gor could certainly be discussed along with as Faramir sugg'd age play, etc. What keeps all of this from being discussed under the General BDSM forum? Couldn't they just adjust the name a little? Very few ppl i know limit themselves to only BDSM or embody every aspect of it in the first place. Kind of like our humor section, we don't have a seperate forum for blond jokes vs. political jokes....Jokes are jokes, humor is humor, and general discussion is just that too. If these ppl practicing these various lifestyles, fetishes or kinks are also participating in some form of BDSM it's all related.



imtempting -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 9:22:02 PM)

As much as I dislike Gor It would bring more traffic to the site. Somehow the site is making money so adding a Gor forum to a free site would more then likely attract alot of people with it.

As someone said as long as people dont have to obey the rules of gor in there then noone will complain.

As for not posting in there well it is a forum is it not? The purpose of a forum is to ask questions and get differing opinions. No doubt I will aswell and probabley get into arguments but that happens in any thread I write in.

So go for it.

P.S If you did not want anyone replying in here then it should of been locked.



RavenofPK -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 9:43:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I think if such a forum opened, it would be important to me that the mods be very clear that we were NOT expected to follow certain protocals.

One thing I like about collarme is that we are not obligated to conform to another dominant person's set of rules. I would be very turned off if we were told we must behave a certain way, even if it were in only -one- of the forums. To me, it would indicate a willingness to inforce behavoral rules, beyond simple politeness, which isn't the kind of enviorment I seek out for chat/conversation.


Not obligated to conform to another dominant person's set of rules??? Are you kidding me? Every time a Gorean man says a damn thing on this forum, they are blasted because they are not kissing a submissive's ass, or automatically respecting everyone just because THEY say so?? Goreans are known for being separatists and segregated from the rest of society. And if, in order for Goreans to participate on this forum in a semblence of their own element, a Gorean forum becomes created........then the rules are quite simple: If you don't like the way a place operates.........simply don't go there! It's not like it will be the only place on the whole forum for you to go and discuss things. Goreans, in general, tend to not conform to things that they are not. It goes against their basic beliefs. Don't expect Goreans to change the way they are in their OWN forum.

Raven



Lordandmaster -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 9:44:55 PM)

This makes no sense. The proposed Gorean Forum comes IN RESPONSE TO REQUESTS for it. Really, how could anyone object? Making smaller and smaller pools of conversation would be a bad idea only if people weren't asking for specific forums.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

A Gorean Forum only makes sense if you want to completey segment: a Gorean Forum, a Daddy/little girl forum, and M/s forum, a D/s forum, etc.

Making smaller and smaller pools of conversation dilutes the conversation.




perverseangelic -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 9:58:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK
Not obligated to conform to another dominant person's set of rules??? Are you kidding me? Every time a Gorean man says a damn thing on this forum, they are blasted because they are not kissing a submissive's ass, or automatically respecting everyone just because THEY say so??


While I understand what you are saying, I believe that in the context of the world, and the bdsm community at large it is appropriate to respect everyone equally. Not because they have any particular role, but because they are human beings.


I doubt you would be "blasted" if you refered to someone by his/her handle and didn't talk down to them because they identify on the bottom side of the equation. There are several Goreans on the forum who opperate with this outlook, and I know that I value their contributions to the threads, even though I disagree with most of what they say--I admire the way they say it.

quote:

Goreans are known for being separatists and segregated from the rest of society. And if, in order for Goreans to participate on this forum in a semblence of their own element, a Gorean forum becomes created........then the rules are quite simple: If you don't like the way a place operates.........simply don't go there!


Exactly what I was saying. If there were a forum created where I had to follow spesific rules, because I belong to my partner, I would choose to stop reading the forum.' For one thing, I am not -allowed- to defer to someone who isn't my partner. For another, I choose not to offer anything but human politeness because an individual capitalized his/her nickname.

By all means, create a Gorean forum, but make it opperate under the same rules as these forums--all are welcome to contribute and none are expected to defer or be defered to.


quote:


It's not like it will be the only place on the whole forum for you to go and discuss things. Goreans, in general, tend to not conform to things that they are not. It goes against their basic beliefs. Don't expect Goreans to change the way they are in their OWN forum.
Raven


It would be a forum supported by collarme. I respect collarmes right to have any rules they desire on their forums, however I, personally, am not interested in a forum that imposes rules of behavior based on online orientation.

Realtime is a much different story, however, on the net I am who I say I am. This isn't so much a problem for my identity as it is for individuals expecting me to defer to, or be overly respectful to an individual who is only what he/she says he is.

I opperate under the "you are what you say you are unless I can prove otherwise" policy, but that doesn't mean I am not aware of the fact that this is -the internet-.



IronBear -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 10:23:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK


quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I think if such a forum opened, it would be important to me that the mods be very clear that we were NOT expected to follow certain protocals.

One thing I like about collarme is that we are not obligated to conform to another dominant person's set of rules. I would be very turned off if we were told we must behave a certain way, even if it were in only -one- of the forums. To me, it would indicate a willingness to inforce behavoral rules, beyond simple politeness, which isn't the kind of enviorment I seek out for chat/conversation.


Not obligated to conform to another dominant person's set of rules??? Are you kidding me? Every time a Gorean man says a damn thing on this forum, they are blasted because they are not kissing a submissive's ass, or automatically respecting everyone just because THEY say so?? Goreans are known for being separatists and segregated from the rest of society. And if, in order for Goreans to participate on this forum in a semblence of their own element, a Gorean forum becomes created........then the rules are quite simple: If you don't like the way a place operates.........simply don't go there! It's not like it will be the only place on the whole forum for you to go and discuss things. Goreans, in general, tend to not conform to things that they are not. It goes against their basic beliefs. Don't expect Goreans to change the way they are in their OWN forum.

Raven



Raven, I’m asking you Gorean Man to Gorean Man, have you really read what you posted? Have you read all the posts made by other Goreans? Certainly, when discussing Gor, there are some who come in and are quite rude to known Goreans posting, but generally they state how much they dislike Gor. Most people may respond disagreeing with something said and don’t flame the poster. Really man, how can you state that:
quote:

Every time a Gorean man says a damn thing on this forum, they are blasted because they are not kissing a submissive's ass, or automatically respecting everyone just because THEY say so??

that is so obviously wrong. OR were you referring to your own posts which have received some heat. If so then I ask you to consider why you received some heat. Could it have been due to your way of articulating what you have to say? Being Gorean doesn’t give anyone the right to be arrogant and treat everybody else like they are beneath you. I’m sorry but this is the way you come across. I have no doubt that you are a pleasant person if people got to know you. There are a number of Gorean lists in Yahell where you can sound off and where you are talking exclusively to other Goreans. Here I’d expect the Gor Forum to operate just like this one. Nothing special just a place for those who want to talk Gor to get together.




RavenofPK -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 10:36:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic




Realtime is a much different story, however, on the net I am who I say I am. This isn't so much a problem for my identity as it is for individuals expecting me to defer to, or be overly respectful to an individual who is only what he/she says he is.




What about our identity? Would you expect and/or demand that Goreans cast aside their identity solely for your benefit, so that you can participate in the Gorean forum???



perverseangelic -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 11:18:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK
What about our identity? Would you expect and/or demand that Goreans cast aside their identity solely for your benefit, so that you can participate in the Gorean forum???



Were this a realtime gathering, I would defer to my parter to tell a Gorean male he prefered I not be addressed by any diminuatives--aknowleding the tenets while clearly communicating his and my desire that I not be subjected to them.

On the net-- I would expect that Goreans on the internet aknowlege that they suffer from exactly the same problems as anyone else, namely, anonymity, and treat individuals as individuals.

That is, I would expect them to ascertain whether or not Gorean-spesific protocal is appropriate to be applied to that individual, and refraining from using it when it isn't appropriate or appreciated. Similarly, I will refrain from applying bdsm spesific protocal to vanilla individuals, and from dictating how Goreans behave with other Goreans. I view this as much the same as ascertaining the ownership status of an individual before using possessive or commanding forms of address--one first learns whether or not those forms of address are appropriate.

It isn't that I have a problem with individuals of the same subculture treating one another as that subculture dictates. I have trouble with that subcultures virtues being projected onto a population who doesn't use or disagrees with those virtues. So--Goreans treat each other as they see fit, but don't apply that to individuals who have a different value system.

I don't frequent Gorean boards or chats because I don't like the protocal. Similarly, I would not join a board and demand the policies change. I frequent collarme because there -isn't- a protocal standard inforced, aside from 'be polite and don't flame.' I chose this forum because of it's lack of requirements. Should there start to be individual fora with requirments, I would rethink my desire to be part of this community.

I believe that a gorean section of this board should fall under the same rules as the rest ofthe boards, otherwise a precident is set that individuals of a given group can circumvent the rules governing this community (collarme, spesifically) as a whole. Much like the dilution argument, I think that if that forum were to be allowed to adop spesific rules, it would give lisence to -any- focused forum adopting spesific rules, which would change the entire character of collarme as I enjoy being part of it.



SilverK -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 11:25:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I think if such a forum opened, it would be important to me that the mods be very clear that we were NOT expected to follow certain protocals.

One thing I like about collarme is that we are not obligated to conform to another dominant person's set of rules. I would be very turned off if we were told we must behave a certain way, even if it were in only -one- of the forums. To me, it would indicate a willingness to inforce behavoral rules, beyond simple politeness, which isn't the kind of enviorment I seek out for chat/conversation.



I would not expect non - Goreans to have to use Gorean protocol anymore than we expect it in the Gorean chatroom. Basically, Goreans use protocol. Others are simply expected to be polite/courteous (tops and bottoms both).

Seems the most sensible route. No one is interested in shoving our lifestyle down your throat - just allowing another avenue to explore it and discuss it for those interested.



perverseangelic -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 11:35:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverK
I would not expect non - Goreans to have to use Gorean protocol anymore than we expect it in the Gorean chatroom. Basically, Goreans use protocol. Others are simply expected to be polite/courteous (tops and bottoms both).

Seems the most sensible route. No one is interested in shoving our lifestyle down your throat - just allowing another avenue to explore it and discuss it for those interested.


*nod* Thank you for re-articulating what I was trying to say much more succinctly. This is how I feel, exactly. (rather obvious statement, I know :) )

Use the protocal that applies to you, with other individuals it applies to, but don't require everyone to use it.

Thank you for making what I said actually make sense.



RavenofPK -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 11:42:46 PM)

Then why insist Goreans conform to your (generalization to bdsm or whatever) way? Sounds like a double standard to me.



imtempting -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/8/2005 11:55:52 PM)

Cant believe the moderator was correct that this would turn into a flame thread somehow.

There are plenty of forums out there that obey the so called rules of Gor. Go and seek or ask me and ill find them for you.

A simple simple solution for you. Any un-owned lady that goes in there is owned by CM and I believe CM agrees with free speech.

Problem solved. Happy now??



RavenofPK -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 12:12:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting


There are plenty of forums out there that obey the so called rules of Gor. Go and seek or ask me and ill find them for you.




Oh boy. Let me clarify something right now. The fact that I have only been on THIS forum for two weeks or so does NOT mean that that is the extent of any experience, Gorean or otherwise that I have ever had. I am hardly a "rookie". I know about, and have been involved in more Gorean specific forums than you could find currently, and have been doing so since 1997. And that was only because that was when I got a computer for the first time and discovered there was a Gorean interest base online. I had been living AND learning the lifestyle long before even that. So......just because you haven't seen me around does not mean I haven't been around.

Perhaps I should have placed this mini-introduction in another section on this forum. Nevertheless, I am satisfied your confusion has been cleared up. -)

Raven



Leonidas -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 3:58:32 AM)

quote:

I think if such a forum opened, it would be important to me that the mods be very clear that we were NOT expected to follow certain protocals.


I've been following the response to this with some amusement. I've never known you to be anything but courteous, perverse. I have no doubt that you could participate in a Gorean forum and express your views in a civil manner.

I don't know of any Goreans (other than the chatroom Warrior type) who would expect you to comport yourself as a Gorean slave just because you have a vagina or call yourself submissive. I've entertained a woman and her master from this site in my living room, and, while they are learning about how I live, they don't claim to be Gorean and I didn't expect them to behave as Goreans.

"Gorean only" forums are different. If you post there, you are doing so with the implicit claim to be Gorean, and you are expected to behave as such. I think you were arguing against the presence of a "Gorean only" forum here, and I would agree. There are enough of them for those who want to interact in a "Gorean only" atmosphere. I've taken some heat for the way that I run the Gorean community chat here because I don't require protocol of everyone. I don't, because this isn't a "Gorean only" site and in my estimation being open to those who want to approach, respectfully, and learn about how we live is one of the more compelling reasons for being here.



cellogrrlMK -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 5:03:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverK

I would not expect non - Goreans to have to use Gorean protocol anymore than we expect it in the Gorean chatroom. Basically, Goreans use protocol. Others are simply expected to be polite/courteous (tops and bottoms both).

Seems the most sensible route. No one is interested in shoving our lifestyle down your throat - just allowing another avenue to explore it and discuss it for those interested.


SilverK, it's a pleasure to see you, ltns! I just wanted to add to your post that the times I've gone into the Gorean chatroom (the main one, not the others), that my non-Gorean-ness has been accepted graciously and I have gone out of my way to be polite and respectful while behaving in the way my own Master would expect me to behave (he is the only one I call "Master", not anyone else).

Unfortunately, there are some Goreans I have encountered who come across as (nella mentioned this too in another thread) pompous and arrogant, treating others as though they were beneath them. This is online, but I for one don't treat anyone any differently than I would in real-life, and always see how somebody behaves online as how they would in real-life too. I hope I'm wrong sometimes! [;)]

Anyway, it's nice to see you posting!

Edited to add: What Leonidas said too...


cello



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