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RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/17/2007 9:16:48 AM   
LadyHugs


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MightyAphrodite,
 
Am I to understand that you are of a personal knowledge that there is no European Lifestyle that exists?
 
May I inquire if you have had months and or years overseas and to look into and or experience the offerings of the European M/s, D/s and or BDSM lifestyle and or culture?
 
May I also ask if you are implying that beeble and his Mistress, who live in the United Kingdom and considered "European" as non-existing as living their relationship as a lifestyle/life choice?
 
I look forward to your replies in regard to my inquiries.
 
Respectfully submitted and wait for responses,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to MightyAphrodite)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/17/2007 9:27:11 AM   
beeble


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From: UK
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quote:

spinntja wrote: Some people in the U.S. say "European Lifestyle" to mean "British Style." Again, that means different things to different people, but in my experience it's usually some kind of recreation of Edwardian or Victorian culture.
beeble wrote: BDSM in my country does not, in fact, mean `pretending to be a hundred years ago.'
MystressDream wrote: First of all... it has been made clear that not everyone in any country follows any particular style of protocol in this lifestyle.

Exactly.  And that is precisely why I find it patronizing and offensive to use the phrase `British style' to mean `treating your sub like a rich person would have treated his servants a hundred years ago.'  It's not even as if the idea of being rich and/or aristocratic and having servants is a specifically British phenomenon.
quote:

MystressDream wrote: However, the main thing that bothers me about this post is that you seem to be taking it as an insult when, in fact, it is a very high compliment that there are factions in the other countries that practice protocols that some of us wish to learn and use.

I'm not at all insulted that people want to learn about these things.  It's the stereotyping I find offensive, the application of my name to a kink that isn't mine or even representative of the name.

I object to (but am not insulted by) the implicit definite article in front of `European lifestyle' and it's use in the singular.  Contrary to your assertion, there really is no one `European lifestyle': you are learning about `some European lifestyles' or, even better, `lifestyles practised by some Europeans'.  The sort of high-protocol formality you're learning about is not typical.  That doesn't mean that it's wrong or bad to learn about it but please don't generalize from it and assume to know the whole picture.  It's frustrating that you appear to persist in your generalization even in the face of contrary evidence from people who have seen more of the picture than you have.

(in reply to MystressDream)
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RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/17/2007 9:51:58 AM   
MystressDream


Posts: 345
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From: Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

spinntja wrote: Some people in the U.S. say "European Lifestyle" to mean "British Style." Again, that means different things to different people, but in my experience it's usually some kind of recreation of Edwardian or Victorian culture.
beeble wrote: BDSM in my country does not, in fact, mean `pretending to be a hundred years ago.'
MystressDream wrote: First of all... it has been made clear that not everyone in any country follows any particular style of protocol in this lifestyle.

Exactly.  And that is precisely why I find it patronizing and offensive to use the phrase `British style' to mean `treating your sub like a rich person would have treated his servants a hundred years ago.'  It's not even as if the idea of being rich and/or aristocratic and having servants is a specifically British phenomenon.
quote:

MystressDream wrote: However, the main thing that bothers me about this post is that you seem to be taking it as an insult when, in fact, it is a very high compliment that there are factions in the other countries that practice protocols that some of us wish to learn and use.

I'm not at all insulted that people want to learn about these things.  It's the stereotyping I find offensive, the application of my name to a kink that isn't mine or even representative of the name.

I object to (but am not insulted by) the implicit definite article in front of `European lifestyle' and it's use in the singular.  Contrary to your assertion, there really is no one `European lifestyle': you are learning about `some European lifestyles' or, even better, `lifestyles practised by some Europeans'.  The sort of high-protocol formality you're learning about is not typical.  That doesn't mean that it's wrong or bad to learn about it but please don't generalize from it and assume to know the whole picture.  It's frustrating that you appear to persist in your generalization even in the face of contrary evidence from people who have seen more of the picture than you have.



If you had read all my posts, you would have seen that I have tried to clarify what I have been talking about.  I have been talking about protocols... from several different areas of Europe.. Some of which are beautiful to see and a delight to use.  If you would rather replace "European Protocols" in the place of "European Lifestyle", I couldn't care less.  I have stated that it isn't the typical play party setting anywhere.  It is a different type of enjoyment of what we do, and it certainly isn't for everyone.  I just take exception to people who scoff it as if it is "fake" and make fun of those who may be interested in it.  To each their own.  I love protocol.... and the various European protocols I have been exposed to and am learning are wonderful. 
 
Anyone not interested in high protocol may find all of this very tedious and boring.... but, calling it "internet fantasy" and "fake", like some of here have done is just wrong on many levels.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/17/2007 10:00:10 AM   
beeble


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From: UK
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quote:

LadyHugs wrote: May I also ask if you are implying that beeble and his Mistress, who live in the United Kingdom and considered "European" as non-existing as living their relationship as a lifestyle/life choice?

Actually, my Mistress lives in the US.  I do live in the UK; our relationship is online.  Beyond that, I'm afraid I can't parse your question, though I realise you're not asking me.

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/17/2007 10:18:35 AM   
beeble


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From: UK
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quote:

MystressDream wrote: If you had read all my posts, you would have seen that I have tried to clarify what I have been talking about. I have been talking about protocols... from several different areas of Europe.. Some of which are beautiful to see and a delight to use. If you would rather replace "European Protocols" in the place of "European Lifestyle", I couldn't care less.

I'm happy with any phrasing that doesn't imply uniqueness -- "European protocols", "European lifestyles".
quote:

I just take exception to people who scoff it as if it is "fake" and make fun of those who may be interested in it.

I hope I haven't come across as saying that; it certainly wasn't my intention.

(in reply to MystressDream)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/17/2007 10:23:25 AM   
LadyHugs


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Dear beeble, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In Europe in my experiences, I have met so many people in their relationships practicing M/s, D/s, S&M and or BDSM to which most are working class adults like a lot of us in America.
 
I agree that it might not be all that common to practice a more formal 'style' in their life's choices however, it may still be a practice held dear by personal tradition rather than a general painted brush perception.  I know its not a common practice as it use to be, to dress for dinner formally and to use the best China and such however, some still practice this at home and in every day practice and yet, some may only practice formal dinners only on Sunday and, yet again--some only practice formal only for party situations and or special celebrations.
 
To me, regardless if rich or poor and all in between; each individual relationship in the broad sense of a M/s, D/s, BDSM and or S&M relationship will be as unique as any others--regardless what nation/country and or the things borrowed from history, ritual, inspired and or created by individuals themselves.
 
But, what I have to say--is that those in Europe are for the most part, most gracious and kind.  I find those in Europe to share the roots of their history, their understandings of rituals and ceremonies.  I am in the belief that individuals find others to which inspire them and with inspiration--causes change as the quality and traits are the basis of change and or inspire maintaining the existing traits which affirms the qualities that makes a person a wonderful individual to associate with and learn from.  But, so too--I must also mention that my blood relatives are European and with the generations--custom, tradition, pride in our past, history and such is more of honoring our relatives and respecting where they came from.  Although my blood relatives are from Europe--some rather well to do; I am an American. 
 
I feel that there seems to be a tug-of-war between those who live in the European lifestyle as individuals in the here and now and those who presume/assume that the use of "European lifestyle" is an instant throw back to the historical.  It would be impossible to fully live in the past--for me, I would miss the air conditioning/cooling and other modern gadgets.  What I appreciate when in Europe was the many individuals who enjoyed the many things of society, culture and historial aspects and the individual family traditions. 
 
It is my belief that any individual would wish to grasp a piece of time and place where it was a haven and or a inspiring time.  For those having a fast pace, there is a great appreciation for slower times and more elegant times where a bit of pampering and feeling special is craved.
At times people want to just be a royal for a day--they really do not know what it is to be royal--just the perception of what it might be, could be and--mostly what it would be for them if they had such an opportunity.  Perhaps explains the popularity of re-enactment groups, historical societies and the like.
 
However an individual achieves a balance and to gain peace, comfort and pleasure--most people will seek where inspiration is found.  It is even better, when finding a partner that enjoys the same thing.  But, I find it unfortunate, that the automatic response to living the European Lifestyle is a means to call people fake, no such thing, etc. 
 
Some of my best friends are from Europe.  They are into M/s, S&M as much as I am.  They just happen to live in Europe.  Some hold dual citizenship.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 

(in reply to beeble)
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RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/17/2007 10:47:23 AM   
LadyHugs


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Dear beeble, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Well, there are some 'etiquette' rules which can be termed as rules and or protocols that are wonderful that I find enjoyable and adopt.  They are not commonly found in the USA as far as my personal experiences go however, in my stay in Europe with those I stayed with it was common for me to see.
 
With the United States being created in its present form; is created of generations of those who immigrated from different countries--not exclusively European but yet--heavily influenced by Europe.  But, as time passes--some of these etiquettes slipped and skewed with an American twist.  For me, I like revisiting the etiquette the manners--and to some, protocols of what was.
It is easy for anybody to get sloppy.  For me, I like the refreshing of the various areas of etiquette and rules to work by. 
 
In the capacity of M/s --the service aspects are more polished for my personal tastes, in Europe.  Others of like minded 'tastes' and 'styles'--would equally benefit from the European exposure as far as education, knowledge, history and or roots as to how 'serving' styles are.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/17/2007 4:11:19 PM   
MistressNoire


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Tut tut People
Sounds a lot like "my perversion is better than yours!"
I am "European" and yes there is most surely a HUGE difference to the scene there than there is here in the US. How can one argue the case when there were old school players that can reach back to a wealth of experience. Let it NOT BE FORGOTTEN that BDSM has roots going back before most of you can comprehend. It really angers me when I see people play this superior card. At last I see someone reaching out and asking so shame on you that mock over a typo or the genuine question. I doubt many here could even talk about history and BDSM !!

(in reply to Dusty15)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/18/2007 3:37:59 AM   
beeble


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From: UK
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quote:

MistressNoire wrote: Sounds a lot like "my perversion is better than yours!"

I don't see that at all in this thread.  I see a bunch of people wanting to learn new things, a bunch of people wanting to teach things and a bunch of people getting annoyed about terminological issues. (Note that these groups overlap.)

(in reply to MistressNoire)
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RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/19/2007 7:54:10 AM   
Dusty15


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Let me up date everyone. What I am finding out from my Mistress is that it is etiquette and how and where she wants me to stand. How I am to be introduce by her and the proper greeting that I am to show. This past sunday was very interesting for me. We went to a meeting and I was in a formal protocal and for me it was different but nice.

(in reply to beeble)
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RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/19/2007 10:51:05 AM   
LadyHugs


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Dear Dusty15,
 
I am very pleased to hear about your update and progress.  I am glad you are having personally good exposures to things and different ways in doing things.  Its something unique and special to you both--that is the most important thing.
 
Good luck on all your endeavours and relationship.
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Dusty15)
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RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/23/2007 7:53:00 PM   
Dusty15


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I have a great Mistress that is caring and giving and I starting to know when she is having a bad day, My training is going real good but it is one step at a time and I am looking for more.

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: European Lifestyle - 11/24/2007 12:13:16 PM   
TexasMaam


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l Dusty15,

Don't listen to the flamers here.  There IS a huge difference between BDSM here in the US, and BDSM in other countries, namely European countries.

Here in the states it can be, but isn't necessarily always, very informal, and is often mixed with a lot of casual and vulgar habits and values.  I was raised, and trained, in Europe and believe Me, there is a difference in what I was taught and what you find on the internet here in the US today.

In Europe, BDSM evolved over centuries of theory and practice that produced all kinds of unique gothic and medeival implements of torment.  Italian, French, Spanish, German, Austrian, and English BDSM related groups have taught their various skills down through the ages.  The specific style varies with the country, the individual and their tastes, and their social standing.

European BDSM schools of thought are steeped in history, religion, and social classes that are not given consideration here in the US.  Generally speaking, it is much more formal, is based on the idea of a Ruling Class VS a serving class, and has unique protocols that are rarely, if ever, expected on this side of the Big Pond.

One of the many reasons we know so little about BDSM activities when Europeans came to the new world is primarily because they were visited on the only people in American Society who could not stand up for themselves, namely, slaves.

In Asia, BDSM evolved over centures of teaching of an entirely different culture. The theories, and practices, and styles vary from country to country and person to person, too.

In Latin America, much of the BDSM scene today was heavily influnced by German schools of thought after WWII. 

Here in the US and across the globe, the internet and the access it permits across socioeconomic classes and schools of thought has resulted in a much more casual BDSM lifestyle than what was traditionally embraced in Europe and Asia for the past several thousand years. 

Which is not to say that every European BDSM afficionado was sophisticated or landed gentry, by any means, it only helps to consider that the historically European BDSM incidents were heavily class/caste influenced. 

A good place to start learning about the controversy and argumentative dialogue concerning European BDSM is the book 'In Praise of the Whip: A Cultural History of Arousal' by Nicholas Largier, available at Amazon.com.

If you'd like to learn more about a more formal BDSM protocol, you're in for some pretty heavy research.  Here's an excerpt of a timeline of a few interesting incidents:


12 AD, Aug. 31: birth of the future Roman emperor, Caligula
26 AD: The Roman Emperor Tiberius (born Nov 16, 42 BC) retires to Capri, where he indulges in all forms of sexual exploration.
39 AD, Sept. 4: birth of the future Roman Emperor, Titus. He was not a Tiberius or Caligula or Nero, or even a Claudius. But he did complete the coliseum, the site of some of the bloodiest activities yet to come in Roman history.
41 AD, Jan 21: Roman Emperor Caligula killed by a guard who had been frequently forced to kiss the royal middle finger in public, and other things in private. (Birth Aug 31, 12 AD) [Greif 82]
45-68 AD: Reign of Nero (born Dec. 15, 37 BC), who as Emperor of Rome, would elevate torture to new heights as a spectator sport.
53 AD, Sept. 15: Birth of Marcus Ulpius Trajanus, who became the Roman Emperor Trajan, the first non-Italian emperor. His accomplishments were many, not only in battle, but in the construction of public works. All of the ancient sources discuss Trajan's homosexuality candidly, differing only in the stories used to illustrate his sexual preferences. [Greif 82]
69 AD, April 15: The Roman Emperor Otho (Marcus Salvius Otho), who literally rose to power on his knees before Nero, stabs himself in the heart.
76 AD, Jan. 24: Birth of Hadrian, who would become Emperor of Rome and lover of the beautiful Antinous (July 16 c.110) who drowned himself in the Nile at age 21, perhaps in as a self sacrifice to save the life of his lover and master.
188 AD, April 4: Birth of the Roman Emperor Caracalla. Gay -- but not leather, he certainly set the standard for a bath house! [Greif 82]
3rd century AD: Sebastian, a handsome young Roman Centurion is beloved by the emperor Diocletian, who turned against him when he embraces Christianity. He was stripped and tied to a tree and shot full of arrows by his fellow centurions. But he survives only to die many years later in a second martyrdom when he is stoned to death. St. Sebastian has been called the patron saint of gays, and the patron saint of SM.
205, March 8: Birth of Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, who would become Heliogabalus, the boy Emperor of Rome. Blatantly homosexual he was married twice in one night choosing a well hung charioteer as his husband and a boy named Hierocles as his wife. He sent out his agents to round up the men with the largest penises in the Roman empire. Eventually his own guards shoved a sword up his ass and dumped him in a sewer. He was 17. [Greif 82]
342 AD: The emperors Constantius and Constans, having inherited much of the empire of their father Constantine, call for "exquisite punishment" for homosexuality. [AA]
390 AD: The Roman Emperor Theodosius sets the punishment for homosexuality as death by burning.
533 AD: Byzantine Emperor Justinian I, decrees that homosexuality and blasphemy are equally to blame for famines, earthquakes, and pestilence. He orders castration for offenders. [AA]
693 AD: The Council of Toledo declares that "sodomists" have infiltrated the Church and order that clerics who lay with men should be degraded, exiled, and damned.
809-813: Reign of Abbasid Caliph Al-Amin of Baghdad, whose mother becomes dismayed by his preference for male eunuchs and packs his court with girls disguised as boys. These "ghulamiyyat" then become a fashion in many Moslem courts.
955-964: Reign of Pope John XII who loves both boys and muscular young men, he dies at the age of 26 from a stroke while having sex with one of his beautiful young men.
1032 - 1044: Reign of Pope Benedict IX, who has been called the Christian incarnation of Elagabalus.
1106, Sept. 28: Robert II, gay son of William the Conqueror is captured in battle and imprisoned for the rest of his life.
1073: All known copies of Sappho's lesbian love poems are burned by ecclesiastical authorities in Constantinople and Rome. [AA]
1076: Archbishop Lanfranc in England orders a priest's benediction on a marriage, but for another 100 years poor people continue to marry without benefit of clergy.
1157, Sept. 8: Birth of Richard Plantagenet, Richard Lion Heart, Richard I, King of England and Duke of Aquitaine. His lover for many years was Philip, King of France. He was one of the era's most widely respected generals. But he produced no heirs and eventually his loathsome brother John ascended to the British throne. The result was the Magna Carta.
1210 - 1215: The Council of Paris declares sodomy to be a capital offense. This marked the start of a militant anti-sodomy campaign by the Catholic Church. [AA]
1252: St. Thomas Aquinas begins his theological teaching. He declares that God created sex organs exclusively for reproduction; homosexual acts were thus Aunnatural" and heretical. [AA]
ca. 1260: The Legal school of Orleans orders that women found guilty of lesbian acts have their clitoris removed for the first offense; that they be further mutilated for a second offense; and burned at the stake for a third.
1268, Oct. 29: Frederick of Baden, Duke of Austria, willingly joins his condemned lover, 16 year old Conradin of Sicily, the last legitimate Hohenstaufen (Born March 24, 1252), and they are buried alive together. [Greif 82]
1292: Europe's first known execution for sodomy takes place in Ghent. [AA]
1307, Oct. 13: Philip IV of France orders the arrest of all members of the Knights Templar. In the following years hundreds of Templars are imprisoned, tortured, and/or burned because of their supposed toleration as sinless of "acts against nature."
1310, Oct. 12: The Knights Templar are put on trial for heresy in France. Most recant the confessions made under torture, expecting pardon from and Pope Clement V, which is not granted. The French crown, and the church, thus gain control of the order's great wealth.
1323: In one of the earliest recorded trials for sodomy, Arnold of Verniolle is found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment with a diet of bread and water. Despite stiff church prohibitions against sodomy, the trial record shows that Arnold had little trouble finding sex partners. [AA]
1326: Hugh le Despenser the younger, the second lover of Edward II of England, is hung, after his genitals have been cut off and burned before his eyes, upon the order of Edward's wife, Isabella, and her lover, Roger Mortimer. [Greif 82]
1327: Edward II of England is murdered by the insertion of a red hot poker into his rectum. (birth April 25, 1284) [Greif 82]1520, June 30: Inca Emperor Montezuma II dies at Tenochtitlan, Mexico. He is know to have cannibalized the boys he sodomized. [Greif 82]
1526: A Spanish historian wrote that Carib men also had lovers that they did not intend to smother in butter and spices. These lovers were distinguished by wearing "naguas" or short skirts and jewelry their lovers had given them.
1530: In an Inca town in northern Peru, shortly after being conquered by the Spanish, there were fifteen women for every man, the men had been burned for suspected homosexual activities. By 1580 the area was still known for its gay activity.
1533: The "buggery" law is passed in England decreeing a penalty of death. This is the first time the offense is covered under civil, rather than church, law. [AA]
1541: The birth of the painter El Greco (death 1614) "His men are martyrs or conquerors; in their gaunt visages he traces the weariness and the final exhaustion of the body in surrendering to the mystical vision, or the savage meditation of those entrusted with the flagellation of Heretics."
1550 - 1555: Reign of Pope Julius III who, upon election as Pope, made his 17 year old lover a member of the College of Cardinals, and also appointed him Secretary of State. His orgies with teenage Cardinals were common knowledge. Most were horrified but the Archbishop of Benevento wrote a book, In Praise of Sodomy, dedicated to the pope.
1551, Sept. 19, Birth of Henri III, King of France. In the final years of his reign (he died at 37) he surrounded himself with handsome young men and abandoned himself to hedonistic joys. He took particular delight in flogging the backs of penitents marching in holy procession. [Greif 82]
1563: The Roman Catholic council of Trent concludes that sex is bad and denounces "paintings calculated to excite lust." Pope Paul IV has clothes painted onto the naked figures in Michelangelo's painting, Last Judgment, in the Sistine Chapel.
1576: Brazil: Spanish explorers report that some native women "give up all duties of women and imitate men...Each has a woman to serve her, to whom she says she is married, and they treat each other and speak with each other as man and wife."
1585: In one of the earliest recorded cases of masochism, Sister Mary Magdalene de Pazzi begs other nuns to tie her up and hurl hot wax at her. She also made a novice at the convent thrash her. [AA]
1590: In "Lectiones antique" Ludovicus Caelius Rhodiginus describes a man who needs to be whipped to have an erection. [wd]
1600, March 18: Fourteen year old Catalan de Erauso escapes from a Basque convent then goes on to serve in the Spanish army dressed as a man. In 1620 the Pope gives permission for her to continue to dress in men's clothing.
1611, July 27: Birth of Murad IV, Sultan of Turkey. His name was synonymous with cruelty, torture and unspeakable horror. His reign was bloody, and the armless, legless, tongue less victims of his tyranny numerous. [Greif 82]
1624: Richard Cornish of the Virginia Colony is tried and hanged for sodomy. He is the first person in America known to be convicted of this offense. [AA]
1624 - 1653: The rule of Nzinga as King of Angola, this female to male cross dresser fought and won many battles against the Portuguese army.
1625, Feb. 7: In Virginia Thomas Hatch is sentenced to a whipping, the loss of one ear, and seven years of servitude, for daring to speak against the execution of a man for the crime of buggery.
1631: Mervyn Touchet, the Earl of Castlehaven, is put on trial for sodomy. He is found guilty and beheaded. [AA]
1631: Rembrandt sells rude etchings, thought to be of his wife pissing.
1638: Massachusetts orders every town to "dispose of all single persons." In Connecticut, bachelors are taxed 20 shillings a week.
1639: The German doctor Johann Heinrich Meibom describes the sexual excitement of some men when whipped in De usu flagrorum. He reasons that this is because the sperm fluid in the kidneys is heated by whipping and then descends to the testicles. Variations on this theory will dominate the thinking on SM until the 19th century. [wd]
1641-42: The Massachusetts Bay Colony incorporates the language of Leviticus 20:13 into it's laws. Other New England colonies soon follow suit. [AA]
1649: Sarah White Norman and Mary Vincent Hammon are charged with "lewd behavior each with other upon a bed" in Plymouth MA. Charges against Hammon are dropped, but Norman is convicted and has to make a public confession. She is the first woman in America know to be convicted of lesbian activity. [AA]
1644, April 10: Birth of John Wilmot, later Earl of Rochester, British writer. His poetry extols the joys of every possible type of human coupling.
1654: Execution of Jerome Duquesnoy (born 1602), court sculptor of Flanders. he is found guilty of sodomy with two church acolytes who had served as his models, strangled and burned at the stake. His brother, Francois, also a sculptor, created Brussels famous Pissing Boy fountain.
1655: The colony of New Haven expands its definition of sodomy - a capital offense - to include sexual relations between women. [AA]
1659: In France, by Royal decree, secret marriages and abductions are summarily abolished.
1677: Using the newly invented microscope, Dutch researchers Leeuwenhoek and Ham observe human sperm for the first time. [wd]
1681: The young Count de Vermandois, the son of Louis XIV of France by Louise de La Valliere, applies for admission to a secret fraternity of homosexuals active, but underground, in the French Court. Because the young count is so indiscreet in his activities, his father discovers his orientation, and the existence of the fraternity. Louis has his son whipped in his presence and then exiles him.
1694: First mention of the Cerne Abbas Giant, a huge chalk drawing on the side of a hill near Dorchester, England. The naked giant with club and erect phallus is supposedly prehistoric. But why was it not noticed until now? Some suspect a 17th Century hoax designed to annoy the Puritans.
1694, Nov 21; Birth of Francois Marie Arouet, better known as the French philosopher/writer Voltaire. He once ended a letter to a male friend, "I kiss your rod." Should we consider Candide a masochist?
1698, Kristian Franz Paullini confirms Meibom's theory in “Flagellum salutis”, but claims that blood is warmed by whipping, which then excites the sperms in the testicles.

1649: Sarah White Norman and Mary Vincent Hammon are charged with "lewd behavior each with other upon a bed" in Plymouth MA. Charges against Hammon are dropped, but Norman is convicted and has to make a public confession. She is the first woman in America know to be convicted of lesbian activity. [AA]
1644, April 10: Birth of John Wilmot, later Earl of Rochester, British writer. His poetry extols the joys of every possible type of human coupling.
1654: Execution of Jerome Duquesnoy (born 1602), court sculptor of Flanders. he is found guilty of sodomy with two church acolytes who had served as his models, strangled and burned at the stake. His brother, Francois, also a sculptor, created Brussels? famous Pissing Boy fountain.
1655: The colony of New Haven expands its definition of sodomy - a capital offense - to include sexual relations between women. [AA]
1659: In France, by Royal decree, secret marriages and abductions are summarily abolished.
1661: In New England, the first Colonial divorce. Massachusetts averages one a year until 1760.
1661 - 1750: All the Southern colonies, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania pass laws prohibiting interracial sex and marriage.
1662-1723: The reign of Emperor Kang Xi, who first took steps to prohibit consensual homosexuality in China.
1677: Using the newly invented microscope, Dutch researchers Leeuwenhoek and Ham observe human sperm for the first time. [wd]
1681: The young Count de Vermandois, the son of Louis XIV of France by Louise de La Valliere, applies for admission to a secret fraternity of homosexuals active, but underground, in the French Court. Because the young count is so indiscreet in his activities, his father discovers his orientation, and the existence of the fraternity. Louis has his son whipped in his presence and then exiles him.
1694: First mention of the Cerne Abbas Giant, a huge chalk drawing on the side of a hill near Dorchester, England. The naked giant with club and erect phallus is supposedly prehistoric. But why was it not noticed until now? Some suspect a 17th Century hoax designed to annoy the Puritans.
1694, Nov 21; Birth of Francois Marie Arouet, better known as the French philosopher/writer Voltaire. He once ended a letter to a male friend, "I kiss your rod." Should we consider Candide a masochist?
1698, Kristian Franz Paullini confirms Meibom's theory in Flagellum salutis, but claims that blood is warmed by whipping, which then excites the sperms in the testicles.1700's: In the Prussian state of Uuerttemburg, cripples and blind persons are not permitted to marry.
1712, June 28: Birth of Jean Jacques Rousseau (death July 2, 1778). By his own reports, except for one relationship, the artist was a lifelong unfulfilled masochist, dating from a school spanking when he was 11. In one affair, he had a Mistress who dominated him thoroughly, but even she refused to re-enact his much desired spanking. [JWB]
1720: Anne Bonney and Mary Read, partners who dressed as men and sailed the seas are tried for Piracy.
1730, Sept. 17: Birth of Baron Freidrich von Steuben, aid to Frederick the Great, who was in charge of training the Prussian army until there were objections to "indecent liberties" with young men. He then offers his services to the Continental Army in America and joins Washington at Valley Forge. There he organizes and disciplines the men into a powerful striking force. When he retires he adopts two handsome young men to become his heirs, and he probably continues to train and discipline them. [Greif 82]
1730, Nov. 6: The future Frederick the Great of Prussia, 18, (born Jan. 24, 1712) is forced by his father to watch the torture and beheading of his lover, Lt. Hans Hermann von Katte, after the two of them were caught trying to run away together. Later as king, on learning that a particularly well-endowed soldier had been arrested for "bestiality with his horse," he is reputed to have replied, "Fool -- don't put him in irons; put him in the infantry."
1730-31: Authorities announce the discovery of an extensive homosexual network in Amsterdam. Three hundred prosecutions resulted and 70 people, including boys as young as 14, were executed. [AA]
1740, June 2: the Birth of the Marquis deSade. [Greif 82]
1740: China's first sodomy laws are enacted by Manchu Qing regime, which outlaws male homosexuality. [AA]
1749: Publication of Fanny Hill, by John Cleland. The novel about a London prostitute is immediately suppressed, but it has enjoyed enormous popularity for more than two centuries.
1749, Jan. 29: Birth of King Christian VII of Denmark, whose physician assigned him a sadistic male lover who beat him regularly. [Greif 82]
1753, Sept 20: Birth of Tippu Sahib, the last maharajah of Mysore, who spends his life resisting British designs on India. The "Tiger of Mysore" demonstrates his feelings for the British by personally supervising the gang rape of each captured soldier. [Greif 82]
1753, Oct. 18: Birth of Jean Jaczues Regis de Cambaceres in France. Under Napoleon he became the primary architect of the Napoleonic Code. He was discreet, but not secretive, about his homosexuality and it was through his influence that the Napoleonic Code, and many later laws based upon it, legalized private consenting homosexual acts between adults. (died: Mar. 8, 1824)
1754, Sept 9: Birth of William Bligh, later to become renowned as Captain of H.M.S. Bounty. He survived the mutiny and the long voyage in an open boat, while all of the mutineers perished on Pitcairn Island. And he certainly knew how to have a man flogged!
1755, Sept. 4: Birth of Hans Axel, Count von Fersen, in Stockholm Sweden. General, Statesmen, and lover of three different Swedish kings. The reason for his horrible death has never been satisfactorily explained. A savage mob tore him to pieces in the streets of Stockholm as police looked on and did nothing. He had been beaten with canes and umbrellas and then kicked to death. [Greif 82]
1758, May 6: Birth of Francois de Robespierre, a leader of the French revolution, he led in sending many of the nobility, and their supporters, to the torture chambers, and to the guillotine. He ended up there himself.
1763, Oct. 29: By order of the King of France, the Marquis de Sade is committed to Vincennes fortress for excesses committed in a brothel which he has been frequenting for a month.
1768, Apr. 3: On Easter Sunday, at about nine o'clock in the morning The Marquis de Sade accosts Rose Keller, she accompanies Sade in a cab to Arcueil. There, in his rented cottage, he orders her to undress, threatens her with a knife, and flogs her.
1772, Sept. 3: Verdict: The Marquis de Sade, and his man servant Latour, are found guilty. The former of crimes of poisoning and sodomy, and the latter of the crime of sodomy, and are condemned to expiate their crimes at the cathedral porch before being taken to the Place Saint-Louis "for the said Sade to be decapitated.. and the said Latour to be hanged by the neck and strangled... then the body of the said Sade and that of the said Latour to be burned and their ashes strewn to the wind." On Sept 12 Sade and Latour are executed in effigy on the Place des Precheurs, in Aix.
1775, July 9: Birth of Matthew Gregory "Monk" Lewis in London. A master at writing the silly, overripe 18th Century Gothic romance novels that are still fun to read. In his Ambrosio, or the Monk (1795) Ambrosio is seduced by a woman driven to blind nymphomania by demons, who enters the monastery and Ambrosios's bed disguised as a boy. His sins are found out and he is tortured by the Inquisition, sentenced to death, and bargains with the Devil, who destroys him. [Greif 82]
1776, Jan. 17: M. Trillet comes to La Coste to claim his daughter, who is known in the chateau as Justine. During an argument with the Marquis de Sade, Trillet fires a pistol shot at him almost point blank, but misses. He runs off to the La Coste township where he babbles about what has happened. Later Catherine (aka Justine) sends someone to find her father, who returns to the chateau. Here she tries to calm him but Trillet, who has brought four other men back with him, flies into another rage and fires a second shot into a courthared where he thinks Sade to be. All five men then flee.
1776, Feb. 13: The Marquis de Sade is arrested by inspector Marais at the Hotel de Danemark, on the rue Jacob and taken to Vincennes fortress where, at 9:30 that night, he is formally entered as a prisoner.
1776, April 18: In a letter from the Marquis de Sade to his wife: I am in a tower closed in by nineteen iron doors, with light reaching me only through two little windows, each with a score of iron bars.  He complains that in over the two months he has been in prison he has been allowed only five walks of one hour each, "in a sort of tomb about fourty feet square surrounded by walls more than fifty feet high."
1776, Sept. 7: After winning a trial, and escaping from authorities, the Marquis de Sade is again incarcerated at Vincennes prison.
1778, March 10: Lt. F. G. Enslin is drummed out of the Continental Army for "attempting to commit sodomy with J. Monhart, a soldier."
1788, Mar. 1: The Marquis de Sade begins work on his short novel Eugenie de Franval, which he completes in six days.
1789, July 2: The Bastille logbook notes that "The Count de Sade shouted several times from the window of the Bastille that the prisoners were being slaughtered and that the poeple should come to liberate them."
1789, July 4: At 1:00 AM, as a result of a report made to Lord de Villedeuil on the Marquis de Sade's conduct on July 2, he is transferred to Charenton Asylum by Inspector Quidor.
1789, July 14: The Bastille is stormed and the Marquis de Sade's cell is sacked. His furniture, his suites, linen, his library and most important, his manuscripts are "burned, pillaged, torn up and carried off."
1790, Apr. 2: de Sade is released from Charenton Asylum.
1791: Justine by the Marquis de Sade (1740-1841) is first published in France.
1879, Jan. 1: The birth of E. M. Forester, British novelist, who had as his lover for half a century a virile, handsome, married, London policeman who granted his most elemental wish: "to love a strong young man of the lower classes and be loved by him and even hurt by him." [Greif 82]
1879, July: The first erotic magazine, "The Pearl, a Journal of Facetiae and Voluptuous Reading", consisting of stories with flagellation themes and attributed to Algernon Charles Swinburne, is distributed among high society. It last for 18 issues until Dec. 1880.
1886: The Austrian police physician Richard von Krafft-Ebing publishes the first edition of his Psychopathia sexualis with 110 pages and 45 case histories. He creates the diagnosis of "paedophilia" and adopts "sadism" from earlier French usage. Masochism" is not introduced until the sixth edition.
1896: The English researcher Havelock Ellis starts work on his monumental book, Studies in the Psychology of Sex1899: The Torture Garden, a novel by Octave Mirbeau published in France. First English edition in 1931. ReSearch edition
1899: Magnus Hirschfeld publishes the first issue of the Jahrbuch der sexuelle Zwischenstufen (Journal of Sexual Intermediates).

And so the timeline goes.  Class, caste, social status, religion, sexual orientation, all influenced by the protocols and expectations of the time.

http://beautyindarkness.blog.ca/2006/08/09/bookleggers_and_smuthounds~1025167

An interesting blog on the history of BDSM and publishers who printed the various tomes.

Happy Research!

TexasMaam












< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 11/24/2007 12:22:25 PM >


_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to Dusty15)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/24/2007 12:29:59 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
Dusty15,

Lady Hugs and I have posted our Slave Positions, or Submissive Positions online here at CM. 

Search on both of our monikers for 'positions' and you'll probably find the links to previous posts. 

It's a good place to start.

Texas Maam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dusty15

Let me up date everyone. What I am finding out from my Mistress is that it is etiquette and how and where she wants me to stand. How I am to be introduce by her and the proper greeting that I am to show. This past sunday was very interesting for me. We went to a meeting and I was in a formal protocal and for me it was different but nice.


_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to Dusty15)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/24/2007 2:06:43 PM   
Dusty15


Posts: 50
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline
My Mistress has shared with me some of the history of the lifestyle and her own thoughts. One of the things that she wants from me to to dress in a white shirt, sometimes a tie, dress shoes, dress pants. I will be dress like that when we go out tonight to the local dungon.A week ago we went to a munch and I was dress the same way and a lot of people like what they saw. When I great my Mistress I bow with the left arm in behind my back and my right arm in front of me and if her hand comes from her side I am to take it and act like I am kissing it. What I would like to find is some example of how to talk in the third person. Like I said I am enjoying this.

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/25/2007 4:34:20 AM   
MuscleCuteClever


Posts: 61
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline
I find Europe intregueing.  I noticed once they talked of the sadomasochistically erotisiced opposite of opposite of gender associations.  Namely woman/women r**ing man/men.

Based on how often M/f is the sadomasochistically erotisiced exajuration of gender associations, while F/m is often the sadomasochistically erotisiced opposite of gender associations based on the sadomasochistic interpretation of realities. 

I was in Europe a few times, I noticed a huge blatant pink sex shop slap bang in the middle of town with large pictures of almost naked men/women on it, it was like a Supermarket.  Very casual.

In the UK its often although not always but far more often, teeny little secret back alley that is very descreet and not obvious at all with men in Anoraks walking in and out with black bin liner bags to and from from their bedsits.

< Message edited by MuscleCuteClever -- 11/25/2007 4:47:35 AM >

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RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/25/2007 10:37:54 AM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
Let's hope you're good at math MCC, because your language skills ... TM

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RE: European Lifestyle - 11/25/2007 10:51:35 AM   
YesMistressIrish


Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

MystressDream wrote: The European lifestyle

No, really, which part of Europe?  Generalizing about Europe is like generalizing about North America.  Mexicans do things differently from Californians who do things differently from Southerners who do things differently from Mid-Westerners who do things differently from New Yorkers who do things differently from Native Americans who do things differently from Canadians who do things differently from French-Canadians who do things differently from the Inuit.  Even, I'm sure, within BDSM.



Why does this have to be such a challenging thing?  He asked for some information on some of the European styles.... and, I will try to help him through emails.  I am not from Europe.  I can only pass on what the Doms we have here that have either lived there or trained there have to share with us.  I stated in my initial post that the perspectives we are going to listen to are from the Paris, Vienna and Croatian areas of Europe.  If that bothers you, sorry about that.  I, for one, will enjoy learning about these differences but that doesn't mean anyone else has to.

This sounds like a wonderful learning experience, I would like to attend the seminars and go to the dinner. Fun, fun  fun!

(Wish it were happening here in Ca)

Irish
"I only have 'yes' men around me. Who needs 'no' men?" - Mae West

(in reply to MystressDream)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/25/2007 11:06:59 AM   
YesMistressIrish


Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dusty15

I have a great Mistress that is caring and giving and I starting to know when she is having a bad day, My training is going real good but it is one step at a time and I am looking for more.

fantastic! Have fun!

Texas Ma'am: Thanks for that info. I saved it. Very interesting and informative reading.

Irish


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RE: Eroupen Lifestyle - 11/25/2007 1:37:00 PM   
MuscleCuteClever


Posts: 61
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam
Let's hope you're good at math MCC, because your language skills ... TM


Thankyou very much for being concerned for me and wanting to advise, much appreciated.

< Message edited by MuscleCuteClever -- 11/25/2007 1:38:16 PM >

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 80
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