RE: To Tell Or Not? (Full Version)

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EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 7:19:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: feline
Aaaah but that's your opinion. What if I don't see it that way. What if I see it as saving him the anguish that having the knowledge will create? Sparing him, as you will.


Read the next sentence after the one you quoted "You might think you're saving them from hurt, but what about when they find out the day you die (which they will)? With no life preparations in place? "

quote:


I got news for you, plans can be made way in advanced without anyones (family etc.) prior knowledge.

I'd consider it fairly presumptuous for a slave to start making these sorts of plans without at least cursory permission from their owner.

quote:

effective in what way???

I don't see how someone can manage or own something else if they don't have all the relevent information. I'd consider having a terminal illness pretty relevent.

quote:

Not ALL Doms believe this. In fact some believe it is "your" duty to take care of yourself or "property".

I don't know where this quote or the others came from- it wasn't in my post.


quote:

The hurt and anger I felt and still feel is not the way I wanted to remember her.

Did you ever stop to think she didn't want your pity in her last days. No matter what you believe when people find out things like this it changes the way they view you. And I don't know about you, but I'm not one for pity. I find it sad you feel angry about your grandmother. It was her business, and she chose not to tell you.

quote:


What if the person couldn't stand to face the hurt it would create for the other person? Or they didn't want it to change the dynamic of the relationship they already had?

Pretty much those situation to me sounds like the slave has decided "Im going to die, so I'm going to do what I feel is best from now on, even to the point of lying and hiding things"

It pretty much releases them from the relationship. I think my alternative, simply asking outright for release and then leaving is the ethical option if a slave no longer wants to be a slave, rather than pretending to their dom that they still are when in fact they are now the ones deciding everything on their own without regard to their dom.




ChereeAmoor -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 7:21:12 AM)

How could I not tell people that I was terminal? My spouse, my children, my friends would all know. One Master or the Other would be driving em to the doctor's, they would be scribbling the checks to pay the medical bills, I would have to inform all of The Kids, and I would want to make preparations with all the support I could drum up.

Of course, strictly speaking, we ARE all terminal anyway.




talldrinkawater -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 9:04:33 AM)

Sorry! I think it is selfish not to tell. You may think you are sparing them pain by keeping this secret. Who do you think you are kidding? You think because you didn't tell them, they aren't going to feel hurt and pain??? Get real! If you think your Master is one who would rather not know, then I pity you.

Tall




dechala -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 9:22:19 AM)

i would absolutely tell! Honesty about everything is key in every relationship.




Isolde -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 9:46:43 AM)

I suppose in that situation it might feel as if you're making the better choice by saving them that hurt, but it's a hurt they'll feel eventually (increased by not having known beforehand what to expect and the hurt of being lied to, even if it was a silent lie). Really what you're avoiding is the pain you will feel at seeing them hurting over the prospect of losing you. So by not telling, you're indulging in selfishness and cowardice.

By knowing, they can prepare themselves as much as you are preparing yourself for the coming death. A lot of people don't realize that that is as important for the loved ones around someone who is dying as it is for the one who is suffering from the illness.




darlingjade -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 10:13:36 AM)

I'll be honest, how I handled the situation would depend very much on the relationship dynamic. Seems to me that thus far everyone is speaking from the perspective of a longterm, loving, and committed relationship. In that case, I'd absolutely tell. Are we all in those kinds of relationships? Nope. And even if I were, I lost whatever expectations I may have had about how someone might react to my becoming ill when I DID become ill and my ex walked out because I'd become a "burden".

Of course, your mileage may vary. Heck, we can argue what we SHOULD do as subs/slaves. But I'll tell you honestly, I'd handle it in the way I thought would best serve my Dom. That IS what this is all about for me. And, quite frankly, if the best thing I could do for him was NOT to tell him then I wouldn't. I wouldn't care what the submissive handbook said or whatever other criteria people seem to use around here to judge how submissive someone is or what decisions they should be making at any given time. I'd do exactly what I've always tried to do, serve his best interests.




misteria -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 10:32:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: feline

quote:

That's the kind of thing that's cruel to keep to yourself

Aaaah but that's your opinion. What if I don't see it that way. What if I see it as saving him the anguish that having the knowledge will create? Sparing him, as you will.




quote:

that there would be someone in a loving, caring relationship with someone and NOT tell their partner that they had a terminal illness.

What if the person couldn't stand to face the hurt it would create for the other person? Or they didn't want it to change the dynamic of the relationship they already had?




feline:

I strongly urge you to find the strength to tell your Dominant and any others in your life that you love, seek professional help from a councilor who specializes in this, if need be. I am a hospice nurse and have worked in the field of death and dying for over 20 years. I can tell you that I have NEVER seen anything good come from some one who chose to not tell their loved ones that they were dying. < I prefer to say living with a terminal illness> Perhaps, and I mean perhaps, you are saving him some tiny amount of anguish, but that is in the short run, temporary. The anger, distorted views of what the survivor thinks the relationship was, the pain of not feeling the one you loved could have trusted you with this is often years before it can be resolved. The pain of the survivor, anguish if you will, will live for years long after you are gone.

I am speaking to you as a professional, but also as one who knows first hand. My partner of 14 years became ill. He did tell ME he was ill, but no one else. Not his parent, his siblings, friends. I was unaware he had not told them, he asked me not to talk about it because his mother was having a difficult time dealing with it, and was dealing with her denial. I respected his wishes. He died suddenly at home, while I was out of state on business. Even for me the timing of his death was not expected, a massive seizure killed him and he died at home alone. I cannot tell you the horror I experienced when his Mother and sister arrived up here and I said something about his disease, only to find out they had no idea. He died twice for them that day. He physically died, and he died in their hearts. 5 years later, his mother is coming to some sort of peace, but says she will never forgive him. I have my own anger, albeit not too intense, that he left me holding the bag. That I am the one who still deals with the family's unreconcilable grief and that his Mother, sister and others never got a chance to ease into the saddness, instead have had anger and contempt and an empty place in their hearts, where there should be wonderful memories.

I understand it is hard to have to face some one and tell them you are living with a terminal illness. I had to do that too. <I was, fortunately, misdiagnosed with metastic cancer> You are absolutely correct.... it brings pain to others to hear this. You need to know and keep in your mind... YOU are not the one causing the pain. YOU are not responsible for this. This is something that tragically happens, there is no blame assigned, just the unfairness of life at times.

It is just MHO, but the dynamic of your relationship has already changed. The reason is two fold:
1- You are going thru a process that is undoubtedly changing your life as you know it, there fore changing the dynamics of every one in your life, as they are a part of you. This part is a consequence of the process.

2- You < seem like> you are going to keep this information to yourself and deny others, at least your Dominant, to be allowed the chance to prepare themselves for what is going to befall them. This part is a consequence of your actions.

The process cannot be changed, your actions can be.

Sometimes one has to read the silence, and what I am reading is that you fear telling him, that he cannot handle this information. That the fact that you are " damaged goods" will change his affections for you. That you do not want to lose him, and think this will make him split. While I cannot assume to know what would happen if you told him, I can tell you that not telling him < or others> will eat at you every day. It already is. To live with a terminal disease you need to create your own sense of wellness. You are only as sick as your secrets. < that applies to everyone, not only the ones living with illness>

Look inward and find the strength to tell him. It does take strength. I have no doubts that you have that strength..... you just need to remove the fear... the strength is there waiting for you to release it.

misteria




gentlesurrender -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 10:55:49 AM)

it is a difficult dilemma to be in

when my one of my best friends was diagnosed with cancer she didnt want to tell her Master, she wanted to enjoy the life ahead of them, she didnt want him to feel sorry for her, she didnt want to face the possibility of rejection if he couldnt handle things, she didnt want to put such a huge burden of pressure on him.

i know at the time she was in turmoil, for the first two months she kept up the pretense of being well and did all the things as per being 'normal'. Then her condition deteriorated and after much soul searching and many tears she decided she needed to tell him. She was in pain and he needed to know at least for when they played together.

It was a dramatic time there was no two ways about it, but once the shock and sadness of the situation were faced, he was wonderful. There is no guarantee others would respond the same. But he made absolutely sure that every day she had left, she had something to cherish. They got married. He became step-father to her children and reassured them that he would be there for them for all time. He played with her and gave her all he could until the pain and suffering were to great. He became her slave and tended her and cared and supported her right up to the end.

It was a difficult time, but he was grateful that he knew so he could take her health into consideration and for having the time to give her some very special times.





RiotGirl -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 12:14:00 PM)

i'd tell, but as well tell him to not stick around. Why should he have to suffer because i am suffering? And to really circumvent the suffering of a loved one in a s/o r/l. You could always find some one way to force them to break up with you, leaving you a bad name, but them not suffereing.

Either that or find away to make sure He is happy while one is gone. Like a replacement.

And then, if i were going to die, one might like to go out partying.. eh.. this is a serously unpleasant topic.

i'd just tell and figure some way for everyone to be happy.




nenakajira -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 1:35:03 PM)

Feline,

I don't understand your arguments on other people's answers. You asked a question that though many do not often think about, is a reality for some.. and will become a reality for others. Noone lives forever.

But, you asked for honest opinions as to what each of us, in our own relationships, would do. And then you argued about what we said. Umm.. what was the point? Were you just hoping that we'd mimic your belief system?

Beliefs vary widely.. very widely. Everyone has their own way of coping but it is their way and is valid as such.




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 1:46:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nenakajira

Feline,

I don't understand your arguments on other people's answers. You asked a question that though many do not often think about, is a reality for some.. and will become a reality for others. Noone lives forever.

But, you asked for honest opinions as to what each of us, in our own relationships, would do. And then you argued about what we said. Umm.. what was the point? Were you just hoping that we'd mimic your belief system?

Beliefs vary widely.. very widely. Everyone has their own way of coping but it is their way and is valid as such.

I can't speak in this situation, but I know in other posts I have created I would question back the responses because I wanted REALLY clear and good answers- and the only way to get to those answers is to really push hard and see where weaknesses are. That's why I post and ask questions after all!




luvdragonx -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 2:09:22 PM)

Death isn't easy no matter which way you choose to deal with it. Many have already said that to hold out on an absolute such as dying is unfair to the people who love you. A lot of people don't like pity, and I can understand not wanting to spend your remaining days under that lens. But how do you know that you will be pitied in your last days? Pity is something that people who don't know you would give. People who love and care for you will cherish every single moment they can. If my husband were to be diagnosed with a terminal illness, pity is the last thing I'd feel for him. I'd be more likely to feel sorry for myself because I knew I was going to lose him.

Emerald made a strong point in saying that keeping that kind of information from your Dom/Master is taking back the control you give him. If you start thinking that you know how he's going to react and behaving based on that, the power exchange is dissolved. It's not up to you, as his sub/slave to decide how he will deal with your death, it is his choice. If you aren't willing to honor that commitment even until death, get out of it now and live your life the way YOU want to.




sweetpettjenny -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 5:00:47 PM)

of course...because if he owns my body , shouldn't he know when it is ill?




imtempting -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 5:15:05 PM)

Wanders why some people get flamed for asking stupid questions whiles others do not??

Yes I think this is a stupid question. Your meant to tell your dominant everything well this is a big lie if you do not tell.

If your dominant really cares for you they will stick around or be less demanding given the circumstances. Help make your final days,Years the best. If they leave then you know they dont really love you or care for you that much.




feline -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 5:24:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darlingjade

I'll be honest, how I handled the situation would depend very much on the relationship dynamic. Seems to me that thus far everyone is speaking from the perspective of a longterm, loving, and committed relationship. In that case, I'd absolutely tell. Are we all in those kinds of relationships? Nope. And even if I were, I lost whatever expectations I may have had about how someone might react to my becoming ill when I DID become ill and my ex walked out because I'd become a "burden".

Of course, your mileage may vary. Heck, we can argue what we SHOULD do as subs/slaves. But I'll tell you honestly, I'd handle it in the way I thought would best serve my Dom. That IS what this is all about for me. And, quite frankly, if the best thing I could do for him was NOT to tell him then I wouldn't. I wouldn't care what the submissive handbook said or whatever other criteria people seem to use around here to judge how submissive someone is or what decisions they should be making at any given time. I'd do exactly what I've always tried to do, serve his best interests.


Excellent! Thank you. You bring up a fantastic point in your first paragraph.



[image]local://upfiles/17000/519B860A082C4A92A53A71AD643A0D57.gif[/image]




feline -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 5:37:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nenakajira

Everyone has their own way of coping but it is their way and is valid as such.

That is correct. Just as my way of coping is valid. Why do you chastise my way of thinking cause it is not like "yours"? I was giving "you" the opportunity to see anothers point of view.

And btw . . . it wasn't arguing, it was giving you my point of view, just because it doesn't agree with yours doesn't make it an arguement.



[image]local://upfiles/17000/A679F92145E040B08D0376435A8A8017.gif[/image]




luvdragonx -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 6:12:57 PM)

Ok, now I'm confused. Did you start this thread to genuinely get different opinions or were you specifically looking for a certain answer? If you wanted to know what people thought about this situation in a relationship that wasn't LT, loving or committed in anyway, why not just ask that up front? When I call someone 'my Dom', I do so to imply a certain level of commitment. While it may not be in the loving/marital sense, there is a committment all the same.

At any rate, I'm still not clear on how one day dying of a prediagnosed illness, regardless of committment level, is better for your Dom than being upfront and preparing them for that eventuality. It's not like moving out of state - there is no coming back. He may have had plans for you the month after you happen to die. He could have moved the plans up so that you and he might be able to enjoy it together. Does your illness affect your relationship with him? I has to because eventually, you will die, and you won't be around anymore. Maybe someone could lay out a scenario in which it's inappropriate for a sub to tell her Dom she's dying.




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 6:32:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: darlingjade

I'll be honest, how I handled the situation would depend very much on the relationship dynamic. Seems to me that thus far everyone is speaking from the perspective of a longterm, loving, and committed relationship. In that case, I'd absolutely tell. Are we all in those kinds of relationships? Nope. And even if I were, I lost whatever expectations I may have had about how someone might react to my becoming ill when I DID become ill and my ex walked out because I'd become a "burden".

The question specifically used the word "your dom" implying a long term committed authority relationship. If the term had been "a top" "a guy you know" or any other word, the answers might be very different. Perhaps the OP should define what relationship SHE is talking about when she says "your dom" if it varies from the fairly common understood idea.

quote:

But I'll tell you honestly, I'd handle it in the way I thought would best serve my Dom. That IS what this is all about for me. And, quite frankly, if the best thing I could do for him was NOT to tell him then I wouldn't. I wouldn't care what the submissive handbook said or whatever other criteria people seem to use around here to judge how submissive someone is or what decisions they should be making at any given time. I'd do exactly what I've always tried to do, serve his best interests.

I agree, but ONLY if we'd had some sort of discussion on the topic already and he'd let me know that he wouldn't care if I told him or not.

FOr example, the boyfriend and I considered getting promise rings or some commitment symbol between us this summer. Now, the Owner has never said anything either which way, it hadn't been anything that came up before. I COULD have just gone ahead and done what I wanted, because it doesn't really affect my service to him. However, I felt since it was such an important thing to me, that the Owner at LEAST deserved to know it was on my mind and to get his own feelings on it. In the end he decided it didn't matter and has now given me carte blanche to do whatever I feel is best with the boyfriend in the end (which means the boyfriend doesn't need to ask permission from him to marry me and such).

IMO serving is not just actions, it's keeping the dom aware of the situation, since they are the ones with the ultimate authority.

In THIS particular situation how can they be serving the dom best when their own slave will be dead soon? They should at least inform the dom that they need to be looking for a new slave and/or that they will be losing the services of this particular slave in a short time if they REALLY have their doms long term best interests in mind




subversiveone -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 6:40:18 PM)

Having lost a mother to sudden suicide instead of prolonged illness, sometimes it IS better in some ways. However im a proponent for energy work and using emotional support to maintain a higher quality of life, rather than to suffer in silence. Not telling may only speed up your process and work against you in the end. Personally the doubt, the guilt that may come in the end would take all my strength.




misteria -> RE: To Tell Or Not? (8/8/2005 7:06:55 PM)

Well... having lots of years in the dying field, I have yet to come across a set of guidelines specifically for D/s relationships. But I have certainly taken care of Dominants and submissives who were dying. Death is a great equilizer, doesn't really know D/s from Vanilla or anything else. Human emotion and psyche is just that, no matter your orientation. < at least on this topic. No one is immune to grief.>

I mean absolutely no disrespect to any one.... BUT this is not about D/s, it is about whether or not you should reveal a terminal diagnosis to some one YOU have invited into your life and given your word to be honest and open with. Wipe away all the leather and lace.. and death/dying is just that.

The basic guidelines for telling or not telling another person about a terminal illness is this.. You MAY not want to tell some one who is too young, or too old or one who is emotionally fragile. But we do not credit people enough, I have seen alot and people are resilient. It's amazing.

I agree, it appears that the OP was asking the question to get the answer she already had preconcived and wanted validation of her own opinion.

In defense of feline.... cut her some slack. Her life just became finite. Yes, we all know we are dying from the moment we are born, but it sooo very much different to hear the words that there is an absolute finality. She is going thru her own process right now, she may not be ready to accept it herself. She may be, herself adjusting to her diagnosis. She may have fear and that fear is clouding what we see as an easy/correct answer.

When the reality of it settles in and she feels comfortable in herself and in her own acceptance of it.. I am fairly certain she will feel differently. People need to be comfortable enough with their diagnosis before they can share it. Today is just not the day.. but it will come.

Feline, my apologies for speaking of you in the third person. There is a wonderful book called " Living your Dying", and it has several chapters dedicated to dealing with relationships. It is written by a man living with AIDS.. Just swap out the gay relationship part and insert D/s... Like I said.. Dying is pretty universal.

misteria




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