Breaking a slave (Full Version)

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HardnRuff -> Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 10:05:32 AM)

Ok I would like to hear some opinions on breaking a slave or a sub . Do you think this is a good practice? Why or why Not ?
I was reading an article about this and it has raised Many questions for Me .
Breaking is a term often heard within the BDSM community. The interpretation of what breaking means varies. In this area it is most often aligned with the 'breaking' of a horse or animal. Based on this interpretation the 'spirit' of the individual is being 'broken'. Some people like to consider it that point where the 'will' gives way to a superior force. The actual breaking of an individual's spirit is the last thing that a competent, healthy Dominant or submissive wishes to occur. The breaking of a 'spirit' removes the positive mental health of the individual. This would be similar to involuntary imprisonment such as during a war in a POW camp. It represents a desire to 'break down' the fundamental building blocks of the individuals psyche until they can no longer defend themselves from external invasion. The vanquishment of hope, self-respect and motivation to continue



breatheasone -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 10:09:55 AM)

My Master likens this to breaking in a horse...One would break in the horse, but NOT break the horses spirit.



HardnRuff -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 10:11:48 AM)

Well spoken *S* ... Makes alot of sense . Thank you .



ctrlaltdelete -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 10:16:47 AM)

It all depends on the "raw material" you are working with. It can be very well likened to a horse. Some horses are naturally compliant, learn willingly and are eager to please. By going in with brute force and trying to break such a horse, you would only do irreperable harm to the spirit. It is the struggling spirits that fight the reins, the saddle, the bit...everything and anything...those are the ones that require breaking.

You can also compare it to basic training in the military. They did not want to break our spirits. But they certainly wanted to break us in to a point where we would uncontestedly accept their leadership and authority at face value (i.e., by means of rank and not necessarily by means of merit).

Again - it all depends on whom/what you're working with.



velvetears -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 10:22:11 AM)

i dont like the term in what i believe it implicitly implies but if i were to think of it in any kind of positive light i would think of it as being made to feel comfortable to the master - as a person breaks in a new pair of shoes they become more comfortable, thus more pleasing to wear, breaking a submissive in this context would mean much the same thing. 



HardnRuff -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 10:51:28 AM)

Thanks for the comments .. Very good thus far



laurell3 -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 10:55:49 AM)

There's a recent, very long, very debated thread on this issue HardnRuff.  I would suggest reading it, but it also degernates into a mess of ridiculousness at points, just so you know.  There are, however, many weighing in on the issue.



jezzabelle -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 10:56:34 AM)

I don't know anything about the subject myself, but I do remember there being a thread just last month where this same topic was covered in great length.  Here is the link to it if you would like to read up on it yourself.....

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1362306/mpage_1/tm.htm




HardnRuff -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 11:04:35 AM)

Thanks jezz and Laurel



LadyHugs -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 11:15:49 AM)

Dear HardnRuff, Ladies and Gentlemen,
 
I can only express my personal comments and observations based on three fronts.  One as a Dominant woman, second as an Equestrian and Equine trainer in riding and driving horses and third, as a canine trainer.
 
In all three areas, "to break" [insert human, horse or dog] in the term of training them is often associated with cruel and inhumane methods as to over power and force control over the horse, the dog and or human.  This has given way, perhaps to the outrage of unnecessary cruelty that is so easily done by humans by their nature and written so well by Anna Swell in her book "Black Beauty" that slowly this was lessen.  With equine and canine trainers paving the way as to work with willing beasts instead of breaking their spirit as to be robots and exist instead of living --we perhaps learned that it is possible to do the same with human kind.
 
As a 'trainer' -- the term 'breaking' should be replaced by the terms and or association of; replacing a behavior with another which is more pleasing and or necessary.  The term, 'to break a habit of,' is merely a replacing of a bad habit with a new habit.  This has also been agreed to by Dr. Phil often on national television.
 
In dealing with human kind within our (in general terms) immediate association; we teach and or train, if you will --how people treat us. (In general terms).  Only by example and or inspiration will any trainer have success--by living the behavior and or attitude that is more than wishful thinking and or a desire that sets the tone in life itself, especially in private.  That said, no matter how 'finished' the training/living may be, it must be consistant.  To reenforce the standards by which training became necessary as to be the maintaining 'presence/force' of those habits to which influences the quality of attitude/behavior of those around us, be it human, horse/equine and or dog/canine.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



ctrlaltdelete -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 12:27:12 PM)

I appreciate your (Lady Hugs') respectfully submitted opinion, but have to, just as respectfully, profoundly disagree.

We are drowning in a wannabe, make-believe society of empathy, we are choking on the stench of vanilla PC, and everyone is attempting to be so deadgum righteously holier-than-thou, that nothing gets done and accomplished any more.

If you want to raise your kids, or you want to raise your pets and beasts of burden akin to being your kids, in a wholesome manner by nurturingly reinforcing positive behaviors and supplanting negative traits with positive ones - that is just peachy and dandy!

But sometimes, it is just about getting the job done. If you run a fall or spring round-up and have a pen full of frolicking fillies and colts that need breaking, to hell with the touchy-feely Dr.-Phil-isms! You try get one or two done by Noon and maybe a third one by nightfall before your aching bones beg for mercy.

Some critters are so darn stubborn that it truly comes down to mutual sheer brute force competition of wills. I remember a 2-year-old BLM mare that was the most spirited, hornery and willful equine creation I had ever ecountered. What it came down to was who said 'uncle' first. I tell you this - at the end of the day, we were both sweat-soaked, aching, dirt-covered and bleeding, but she was rideable...and what's more, that little filly became one of the most trusting and loyal horses I ever had!

How does this apply to "breaking" a slave in BDSM? Simple - I am here, because I am gut-wrenchingly sick and tired of the vanilla PC conventions and enjoy doing as I deem fit in any given situation. A girl may be just as gentle and innately compliant as some horses that I have trained. Or a girl may just be as hornery and fighting the bit as hard as that BLM mare - and guess what? She chose to answer her innate calling of being a slave and if she is at the point of being trained by me (or any other Dom/Master/Domme/Mistress of whom she begged training, protection or ownership) then she is here because she does not feel she needs the PC protection of a pussy-footing vanilla society - but she is in for the ride that she herself has chosen.

Again - I mean no disrespect, but if someone cannot handle the bumpy ride, they should do well staying off the chuck wagon!

Be well,

Nick



TheScrivener -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 1:10:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctrlaltdelete

It all depends on the "raw material" you are working with. It can be very well likened to a horse. Some horses are naturally compliant, learn willingly and are eager to please. By going in with brute force and trying to break such a horse, you would only do irreperable harm to the spirit. It is the struggling spirits that fight the reins, the saddle, the bit...everything and anything...those are the ones that require breaking.

You can also compare it to basic training in the military. They did not want to break our spirits. But they certainly wanted to break us in to a point where we would uncontestedly accept their leadership and authority at face value (i.e., by means of rank and not necessarily by means of merit).

Again - it all depends on whom/what you're working with.


You absolutely nailed it, for me.

A willing & eager submissive has no business being "broken" in any respect.  When someone is more bratty and problematic, then, there's a need to break a person down to a more basic, obedient level.

Well said.



MercTech -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 2:08:13 PM)

... the term "breaking" brings something to mind..

Wheeeee doggy, once we get that filly saddle broke we gonna sure take her for a ride.

Tongue firmly in cheek,
Stefan



osocurious -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 2:35:10 PM)

… again … I hesitate to comment or add words … because this thread is entitled “Ask A Master” .. which I certainly am not.
But if it's alright ... I would like to ask ...

Is "Breaking" a submissive or slave,  something that's in the mind of ALL Masters and Doms??

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3  There's a recent, very long, very debated thread on this issue HardnRuff.  I would suggest reading it, ......
I'll take that advice laurell3 and go do that now ... thank you

with sincere respect,
~ curious ~



masterlink65 -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 2:39:48 PM)

there is a fine line of breaking the slave and breaking its spirit as already mentioned in this thread.

sometimes it needs to be done. my alpha slave did not need breaking. my second slave need to be broke in a bit. depends on attitude of slave for me.



ctrlaltdelete -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 2:45:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osocurious
Is "Breaking" a submissive or slave,  something that's in the mind of ALL Masters and Doms??


In spite of my passionate rant about the acceptibility -in my eyes- of the concept of 'breaking a slave', it is something that is rarely on my mind and certainly not a declared objective entering into a relationship or other type of involved dynamic.

Personally, I much prefer a girl that (see my first comment on this thread) willingly and happily assumes the role that she agreed to based on our initial discussions and exchanges. Maybe there are some Doms/Dommes/Masters/Mistresses out there who enjoy and appreciate the daily struggle, drama, challenge and jockeying for position inside the relationship - but personally, I prefer to avoid such a dynamic and instead strive for one that is defined by harmony.



osocurious -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 2:52:55 PM)

..... hmmmmm.......
maybe it's just that I haven't yet understood the concept of "Breaking"
( in my mind ... it sounds really terrible and damaging )

respectfully
~ curious ~



ctrlaltdelete -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 3:07:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osocurious
maybe it's just that I haven't yet understood the concept of "Breaking"
( in my mind ... it sounds really terrible and damaging )


There are many different ways in which something can be broken in the most non-violent of manners. You can break the silence, you can break the code, etc. In this specific context, it refers to breaking someone's will, someone's spite, someone's pigheadedness (whoa - I am sure that word does not exist) with the goal of making them comply with someone else's will, demands, instructions, etc.

In the military, you commonly heard (maybe still do - they got so PC also) "we will break you down so we can build you up again in the way we want you to be". That does not mean that they want to have a fighting force of crippled or mentally/emotionally dysfunctional and instable soldiers. Quite the contrary - they just want to make the soldiers stronger and better equipped to deal with any adversity.

This "slave breaking" is meant in a very similar context.



HardnRuff -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 3:59:39 PM)

I think Bending is more acurate at describing this than breaking one . Just My Opinion.



Rover -> RE: Breaking a slave (11/14/2007 5:05:24 PM)

Anybody can beak something... just watch a child the day after Christmas.  There's really nothing difficult or virtuous about that.  Try building something.  Now there's a challenge.
 
John



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