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No Limits is Dangerous - 1/14/2004 5:07:46 PM   
docb303


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/14/2004
Status: offline 		There is a line between reality and fantasy, and we all play at that line. To new folks, however, that line is not always visible.

When dominants advertise that they want submissives with no limits, they are assuming that submissives know much more than new folks might know.

Also, submissives answering such ads might assume that dominants will take care of them.

Assuming is a dangerous thing, and can get one permanently injured, mentally or physically, or even killed.

Please remember that negotiations prior to real-time play are not only a good idea, they are vital. Neither party can read the other's mind. Without discussion, dialogue, and real communication, the hoped for LTR is going to fall through.

While I'm at it, I have noticed an absence of "safe words" being mentioned in postings. Dominants, the safe words are for you as much as for the submissives. You, most likely, do not wish to be responsible for long term psysic damage caused by crossing too far over the edge of "the envelope" without knowing that you were even close to the edge. Some submissives have been traumatized as children. There are a lot of wounds out there, and they're not necessarily healed.

Having been around for a number of years, I think it important for those with experience to actively mentor those who are new so that everyone has a good time and lives a long life.

Cheers,

db
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/14/2004 6:36:47 PM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Good post.

I get scared for newbies when I read some posts (on another board I belong to)

Posts about Masters breeding their subs to create "slave children", subs who turn their children, finances, etc. over to a Dominant because he "says so".

(in reply to docb303)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/14/2004 7:34:29 PM   
LrdSatyr8


Posts: 21
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Oxford, NC
Status: offline 		I don't care who you are... everyone has limits. I don't know of one submissive or slave that would ever have sexual realations with their own child... even if they were the most respectible and deeply trained submissive... or even if their Master commanded them too... I would call that a limit. Here's another one... How many submissives do you know would jump off a building because their Master told them too? There's another limit... a Master that asks for a submissive with NO LIMITS is not a Master but a fool... I would highly advise stearing clear of such a person! Use your head.

-=> Satyr! <=-

(in reply to docb303)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/15/2004 4:29:50 AM   
atruesoulslave


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		i suggest this to anyone new to this lifestyle.
http://www.westom.com/leather/nine_degrees_of_submission.htm

(in reply to LrdSatyr8)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/15/2004 7:55:44 PM   
WetropeMaster


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Limits must be in place before you meet, before you start, must include a cautionary and final limit, like yellow and red. Any Master worth his salt will make sure sub knows this and even if gagged has a way to tell/show Master if limit is reached.

(in reply to atruesoulslave)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/16/2004 2:12:51 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		"No Limits"

When I read this I usually think one of two things. That a) either this person is new, or inexperienced, and simply indicating they have not yet come up 'against' any limits. It's not that they are saying there would be no limit, but rather that they haven't been to a point where a limit was an issue. The other, is the (honestly silly) declaration that anything goes.

Some time back, I used to go online in a chat room that called itself a 'slave auction' room. A 'slave' was auctioned off for whomever could have the highest 'bid' textually, and her company was enjoyed for an hour in private. One common statement was "what are her limits?" And the usual implied limits of no bestiality, scat, necrophilia, etc etc would be listed. While this seems like these aspects should go without saying, there are rooms in the same section with titles like "pet lovers" and "kill her slowly." Why should anyone have raised a brow when this person states that any roleplay, any discussion of any fantasy is 'ok.' A quick look on the alt.sex.stories.text.repository (asstr.org) will show a disproportionate number of stories written about non or semi-consensual sex, pedophilia, incest, and other taboo and generally illegal acts in the US (and most other countries.)

In reality, everyone has a limit. Someone who states they surrender control and authority to their owner, cannot surrender their moral (and subsequent legal) obligations to society by stating they will do 'whatever they are told.' I find that when the focus is 'what are you limits' the conversation swiftly moves from 'what is it you really enjoy? what kind of person are you?' to 'how can I break those rules? what kind of sexual encounter can we expect?' I don't judge anyone for their tastes and desires (as long as they're legal and/or do not infringe on others rights) but I will offer that the time spent discussing limits, kinks, and other bedroom activities do tend to inhibit conversation about other more mundane elements, i.e. goals, interests, and other elements of a relationship. If you're seeking a casual playpartner, perhaps these elements aren't so vital, so obviously take my opinions with a grain of salt.

This brings me to another topic that I will start another thread for. I don't use safe words. (Lets it sink it.) That's right, I don't use safewords in play or otherwise. I find them inhibiting to the psychological condition of slavery, and work as a crutch instead of allowing the slave to serve to her full potential. I don't suggest this is right for everyone - or even anyone - just that I prefer to be in a relationship with a woman, where we are close enough that her limits - and her expressions - are clear enough to me, where I don't have to ask her 'permission' or to stop when she's feeling a little uneasy. I don't think this means my play is 'unsafe' as she's encouraged to cry out, or say it hurts too much, etc etc - I just think a girl screaming 'rutebega' in the middle of a scene isn't the most effective means of experiencing all the lifestyle has to offer

Stephan

(in reply to WetropeMaster)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/16/2004 2:24:47 PM   
ProDomme


Posts: 50
Joined: 1/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

rutebega



LOL.. what about sphdoinkle...;)


Sorry the word rutebega struck me as funny..

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/18/2004 8:43:28 AM   
Dom4subsoulmate


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/17/2004
Status: offline 		Much as I agree with the fact that we all have limits, and we do, we sometimes gloss over the fact that we dominants have limits too. So much focus is put on the limits of the slave, and in truth that is justified by the fact that she is the recipient of so much of the sensation in play. However, Doms can be manipulated by greedy slaves into areas that may be a limit for the dom.

(in reply to ProDomme)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/18/2004 8:50:11 AM   
Dom4subsoulmate


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/17/2004
Status: offline 		An additional thought here. Not only do we need to acknowledge that all of us have limits of one kind or another and how important it is to respect those limits, we must also acknowledge that each of us have needs. That might seem obvious on the face of it, but to many times I see that a slave or sub is asked what their limits are, but rarely do they seem to be asked what their needs are.
Much as we all enjoy the fantasy of this lifetyle, limits and need fulfillment, are both essential. There is no justification for damaging someone, mentally or physically. In the context of a relationship, there is no justification for failing to meet the need of the one you are supposed to love or at least care for. Much as the fantasy is that a slave has no need other than to serve her owner, in truth they do have needs, it is intrisic to their humanity. Many an unwise dominant has found himself Master of no one when the slave whos needs he has failed to meet suddenly votes with her feet and walks out on him. So, any discussion of limits has to include an ansilary conversation about needs, including the needs of a slave.

(in reply to Dom4subsoulmate)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/18/2004 3:19:03 PM   
mimi


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This is an interesting thought, that of needs as well as limits. And that it works both ways, for Dom and sub, is obvious but also not something that is likely to be discussed much.

I'm new to all of this and know that I do indeed have both limits and needs. I know that discussion limits with someone before a scene is expected, but what about the needs part? Or is that entirely up to the Dom/Top to decide?

My Owner lives in another state and if I am attending play parties in my local area (with his permission), I wouldn't expect another Dom to have the kind of awareness of my needs as he does, simply from knowing me. Is that something I should be able to bring up or should I be expected to shut up? I don't know how commonly Dominants care about the needs of submissives, especially those who don't belong to them.

It also opens the whole question of ... what can I do to make sure that the Dominant's needs are met as well? Or is that again something that is out of my hands unless it's a Dom I know well and can read?

There are two of us in a scene. It shouldn't all be about the sub.

Just my $.02.

mimi

(in reply to Dom4subsoulmate)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/18/2004 6:06:44 PM   
druidic


Posts: 6
Joined: 1/18/2004
Status: offline 		limits are the boundaries of our comfort zones and practical common sense.

One would hope to be realistic enough not to damage your property.

So when I see no limits in a profile, I either have to think they have no clue of boundaries and reality, or they seek something else entirely.

Most of the real no limits slaves I have known were expressing an abstract of thought.

In other words, they wanted to be able to trust thier Masters so deeply that no explicit limits would be stated.

The Master is trusted to be practical, of mature outlook,and to see that His or Her property is used, but also well taken care of.

This is a rarity as far as humans are concerned ,so it's often an unrealized dream.

But a lovely one nonetheless.

(in reply to mimi)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/19/2004 8:01:53 AM   
sinful


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline
I have read this topic many times in many different sites.

I agree that people new to the lifestyle should not state no limits. For they truely have no idea the scope that this entails. I have limits when i play casually with anyone.

But i must make an amendment and give you some food for thought. When and if i become owned, and property to someone, the day that collar is placed upon my neck. The limits that i have set forth are then given to Him, as I will no longer need them. The person to whom this trust is given , will be a Man with a brain, and Man that knows safe and sane practises. He could very easily make me do something that is unthinkable. Would He? Absolutely not, for the well being of the possession He owns would be much more important to Him. So some of Us who have been in this lifestyle for years, might just disagree, that anyone who states no limits, is messed up .

I hope that maybe you can see my view in this matter, and , just for food for thought, I am a very well educated person, in this lifestyle and in nilla circumstances and schooling, but i know in my heart that when i submit with my soul to Him, i will give Him my limits, I will give him my everything and I will be His in all ways. He will have the control of my life, and that is how i want it. He will know my discomforts, He will also take good care of that which is His.

sincerely and respectfully
sinful

(in reply to docb303)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/19/2004 8:25:59 AM   
MistressPheadra


Posts: 27
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		I have a situation that combines in a way a rant of Mine under general BDSM discussions and this one. the following did not happen to Me but rather a good friend came to Me asking what I would do in this situation and I even once, to those that were there made a chat topic in the room about it but here goes:

This woman finds this "sub" online. and after their first date he came back to her house for some coffee and then things just "happened" and she is domming him.. ((alarm #1)) so they are playing. But before, as any good budding domme, though she was in a nasty spot did at least ask him what his limits were. He stated he had none.((#2)) She believed him but again nobody is perfect.. and she went on to the scene..

After that, this guy kept safe wording EVERYTHING she did.. and not just a "yellow" one or the eqivalent since I know some use others.. no it was RED when she tugged on the leash.. it was RED again when he tripped and fell, with no injury.. it was RED when she used a crop on him lightly.

all these things she had asked him as she was doin them.. making sure he was fine with it.. and with the collar thing it was that he had safeworded because he felt his life was being thretened..

now I look at this a few ways:

1) this guy is just looking to top from the bottom.
2)this guy has NO clue what the hell is going on.
3) this guy is abusing the safewords or does not really understand them.
4)this guy is just looking for a good lay.
or.............
5)ALL OF THE ABOVE! LOL

so yeah. thsoe are my thoughts.. but either way it ties in with people not being honest, being something they are not just for a quick lay.. without finding out what we consist of.. and while the Domme in question is in the wrong here too. she at least learned something valuable that day.. she ended up telling the guy to f*&# off for those that may be curious. *Grins*

MP

(in reply to sinful)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/21/2004 5:37:52 AM   
ShadowHwk


Posts: 158
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: docb303

There is a line between reality and fantasy, and we all play at that line. To new folks, however, that line is not always visible.

When dominants advertise that they want submissives with no limits, they are assuming that submissives know much more than new folks might know.



My take on this: Dominants who state they are looking for a sub/slave with no limits are unknowingly asking for a sub/slave who’s limits and boundaries are outside of the Dom/me’s limits. Which for the Dom/me is essentially a sub/slave without limits because they will never approach those limits themselves.

I speak from a bit of experience here. Last year, I became involved with a slave who’s capacity for pain and abuse, were far beyond my limits – even when stretched. It was a rather enlightening experience, to say the least.

We all have limits. Not an opinion, it is a fact. A given Dom/me may not be able to touch those limits, but that does not mean they do not exist. For someone to state that they are looking for a sub/slave without limits, speaks much about that individuals understanding of sub/slaves, their own nature as a Dominant, and understanding human beings in general. What it says is not complimentary at all.

(in reply to docb303)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/21/2004 8:02:45 AM   
sequi


Posts: 3
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		i have greatly enjoyed reading the many thoughts on this topic.

More or less for me it comes to the question of ethics and morals. i know when i make a choice to live the lifestyle i do i am subscribing to the morals and ethics of the Dom/Master i am with as well. If i don’t agree with the morals and ethics of that Dom/Master i have no reason submitting to that person.

In a previous real life, long-term relationship, the lines became VERY blurred & i went against my own ethics/morals all for the sake of being a “good slave.” That's another story....my point is that if a difference exists in morals/ethics being followed in a relationship it can lead to a destructive and/or abusive relationship. (Not to mention low-self esteem or other issues that can arise, legal and otherwise.)

i've read here such comments as “everyone has limits”, a sub wouldn’t have sex with their own child or commit suicide. i have seen at least 2 sub/slaves who have had sex with their children at the command of their Dominant. i haven’t seen anyone who would “kill themselves” for their Dominant yet, but have seen many postings by sub/slaves who would if asked. Whether or not they really would do either i think matters less than the fact they have internalized it that much. Again, if they subscribe to the same ethics/morals of their Dominant and they have spent time getting to know that person they know and trust they would NEVER be asked to do such a thing.

In many cases i might even stretch out on a limb and say that in the Dom/Master’s eyes their sub/slave is probably a very valuable asset in their life. For those who have been in a committed relationship for awhile they often understand how hard it is to gain all of the elements that make a successful D/s or M/s relationship and they understand how hard it might be to find someone else to fill those shoes again.

my quick 2 cents worth!

In Leather,
sequi

< Message edited by sequi -- 1/21/2004 8:08:17 AM >

(in reply to docb303)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 1/25/2004 2:32:17 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		When I look into my slave's eyes, I know for a fact that she would do anything I demand of her. She knows that because of who I am, she can be safe in giving that power to me. I will not abuse it. And she knows that. So in reality, we do have limits. In a practical sense, we don't. That is good enough for me.

(in reply to sequi)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 2/9/2004 6:16:36 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		CHOOSES TO POST MY OWN ADVO, WELL JUST BECAUSE....
(looks up at MODII with My Most inocent wicked smile)

MISTRESS SEEKS SLAVES!!BLACK HAIR, BLACK EYES,
6'-290LBS BBBW SADIST POLY DOMME NEEDS SLAVES.WILL
BE 24/7 IN REAL LIFE LONGTERM BUT IF OVER THE INTERNET
IS ALL YOU SEEK WELL I SUPPOSE I COULD FINANCIALLY,
SEXUALLY,MENTALLY,SPIRITUALLY,PHYSICALLY DOMINANT
YOUR EVERY MOMENT. SLAVES WILL WITHOUT A WORD
DO ANYTHING AND EVERY THING I SAY AT ALL TIMES TO
BE GIVEN THE PRIVILEGE OF MY PRESANCE ON LINE OR
BE GIVEN THE CHANCE IN REAL LIFE 2 SERVE. CONTACTS WILL BE
THRU HERE ON COLLARME.COM AND EXPECT TO GIVE UP
EVERYTHING IN YOUR CURRENT LIFE BE IT SOCIALLY OR
MATERIALLY TO BECOME MY POSESSION AND EARN THE RIGHT
TO SERVE ME. MY NEGOTIATION FORMS(CONTRACTS) ARE
EXTENSIVE AND THROUGH AND MOST WILL BE A BINDING
CONTRACT FOR VOLUNTARY SERVITUDE (DOMESTIC EXTREAMIST)
IM NOT LOOKIN FOR LOVE OR MY *ONE SO DONT THINK IT WILL
BE YOU BECAUSE IT WONT. I HAD A LOVE OF MY LIFE ALLREADY
IN A MASTER OF 27 YEARS AND BELIEVE ME YOU WILL NOT BE
FILLING HIS SHOES EVER AS A sa ms. IF YOUR YOUNG,DUMB,
AND FULL OF CUM WITH A NEED TO BE BROW BEAT AND SUMONE TO
SPEND ALL OF YOUR PAYCHECK WITH OUT SEEING ME,IM YOUR GAL,
AND I KNOW THAT ALL OF YOU worthless peon slaves are out
there looking for ME male and female, SO GET YOUR ASSES
ON HERE AND WRITE,MT HAIR AND NAILS NEED TO GET DONE TODAY.
P.S. ANYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN
A COURT OF LAW......................HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA! BEEN
THERE DONE THAT!!Here is My question to this Board....
NOW WHAT slave OR sub WOULDENT JUST ADORE ME OWNING THEM??
(drops this here while sticking My tongue out at ShadowHwk
whom seems to be playing in the same schoolyard I do alltho
at oppisite ends of the playground and goes in running down the
collarme.com hall to General posts to find where else Im
suppose to drop this as well...scrolls up to read saphires
directions again so I make sure that I am in the least A
consistant Sadist.)

(in reply to docb303)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 2/10/2004 12:02:58 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		When posed with the statement "I have no limits Mistress", I merely ask will they be bringing the goat or will I?

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 2/12/2004 5:48:18 PM   
hisbijou


Posts: 41
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline 		In my own case, i know that i have some hard limits, lines i will not cross for any reason....however, there have been times in the past when i have agreed to things for the Dominant, and after participating decided i would not do those things again. Sometimes you have to try it to know that you don't like it.
my best
bijou

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: No Limits is Dangerous - 7/13/2005 2:27:26 AM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		i suppose i agree to a point. a small point.

being i myself am very unfamiliar with any real play. i actually as yet do not have any limits, since i don't know what what they would be.
i am not talking about weird stupid stuff; dead things and animals and what other creepy insane stuff.
just the usual chains n whips n flogger stuff. not been there much. so i have no idea what to set FOR a limit. so even though i am familiar with the lifestyle.....since 2000.....i am NOT familiar with a dungeon except to watch. no one has ever wanted to take time and teach. i can but only wait and see.


the wolf


_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


(in reply to docb303)
Profile   Post #: 20
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