Don't Believe All the Polls You See

Don't Believe All the Polls You See (Full Version)

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subfever -> Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 2:31:19 PM)
Several mainstream "news" (read "statist propaganda") outlets have already been caught with egg on their face for covering up poll results favorable to Ron Paul. And when you can't hide the results, why not just prevent the "undesirables" from participating in the poll at all? If you think I'm kidding, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3JqIvzayDs For those of you who can't view it, the video shows that Republican party officials barred Ron Paul supporters from participating in the Texas straw poll, despite the fact that those supporters had pre-registered and paid to be allowed to do so. How convenient. I guess the PTB figures that if they keep creating the illusion that Ron Paul has no chance, they can manipulate many of his supporters and those politically "on the fence" into: "Not wasting my vote on a sure loser." "Voting for the lesser of two evils." and other nonsense that sheeple fall prey to. I wonder how many will be manipulated by their tactics.

popeye1250 -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 2:39:44 PM)
You know the polls are wrong when Fox News has "Wudy" ahead of Romney and Paul.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 2:55:44 PM)
http://www.usadaily.com/article.cfm?articleID=162633 The media is owned. How can we make informed decisions when the system is so totally gamed in this manner? Seriously, our republic is at risk from top to bottom.

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 3:24:25 PM)
If voting could actually make a difference, then maybe this would have some meaning. But with Election Day merely being an exercise in producing the "Proper" ( rigged ) result, it's meaningless. Ron Paul doesn't have a chance because he won't OBEY the orders he is given. Hilary and Wudy are both properly obedient, and therefore, viable candidates. Some people just don't pay attention to the training films.

Sanity -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 3:42:16 PM)
So, where do the little green men with their mind control rays come in...

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 4:38:58 PM)
Ok, so prove ( in the Financial Audit sense ) the last election actually had the votes that were supposedly reported. Show all work. I am willing to accept the same level of accuracy as say, balancing your checking account. IF YOU CANNOT, please explain why your vote is WORTH LESS than a single penny in your checking account.

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 4:51:09 PM)
Waiting...

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 5:07:22 PM)
Still waiting. It's NOT all that difficult, is it? You'd think, given your incredibly insulting and dismissive response that you would be eager to satisfy my inquiry, and defend your statements. Simply prove ( in the Financial Audit sense ) the last election actually had the votes that were reported. Show all work. I am willing to accept the same level of accuracy as say, balancing your checking account. IF YOU CANNOT, please explain why your vote is WORTH LESS than a single penny in your checking account.

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 5:16:21 PM)
Ok, given your inability to respond, we're just going to chalk this up to "argumentum ad personam". Remember though, insults and even true negative facts about my personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of my arguments or assertions. This tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool, and at least I, have seen you use it before. Please take notice that your propaganda topic is now well known, and avoid wasting our time attempting to invoke it in the future.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 5:16:34 PM)
Come on fargle, suppose you're actually wrong about this? The fact that no ordinary Collarme user can "prove" the fairness of the last elections to your satisfaction doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't fair. The only way to tackle this problem is to compare election results by precinct with the exit-poll data, which have historically been very accurate. There were interesting discrepancies in 2000, but less in 2004.

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 5:21:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Come on fargle, suppose you're actually wrong about this? The fact that no ordinary Collarme user can "prove" the fairness of the last elections to your satisfaction doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't fair. They're not MY standards... They're Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. quote: The only way to tackle this problem is to compare election results by precinct with the exit-poll data, which have historically been very accurate. There were interesting discrepancies in 2000, but less in 2004. And that's most of my point. How can anyone assert that an un-auditable system is trustworthy with a straight face? And my point about you being able to AUDIT the transactions in your checking account and PROVE the balance to the penny should show you exactly how much the electorial system is broken. Having an auditable and trustworthy process is the only solution. I'd suggest that means having it done by hand, by multiple people, in a public venue, where EVERYONE can keep an eye on the process, and at ANY TIME every district can be properly audited.

Sanity -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 5:26:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Still waiting. It's NOT all that difficult, is it? You'd think, given your incredibly insulting and dismissive response that you would be eager to satisfy my inquiry, and defend your statements. Simply prove ( in the Financial Audit sense ) the last election actually had the votes that were reported. Show all work. I am willing to accept the same level of accuracy as say, balancing your checking account. IF YOU CANNOT, please explain why your vote is WORTH LESS than a single penny in your checking account. I don't live here, existing only to meet on your demands farglebargle. I live in the real world... in this case I was outside walking my property with my dog, watering the horses, chopping wood, and playing... Now that I'm back though, I'll just say this. I don't have to prove or disprove anything to you. Your opinion is that life is a bowl of conspiracy theories, and I'm more into reality. You state your opinion, I state mine - I don't DEMAND anything of you, you don't DEMAND anything from me. Well, you can DEMAND all you want... I'll just chuckle at the thought of your face turning red while I'm out enjoying this crisp Idaho weather. Fair enough?

Lordandmaster -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 6:44:53 PM)
Fargle, I'm not claiming that the elections were fair. Or unfair. I'm saying that you can't ask ordinary Collarme users to PROVE that they were fair, and, in the absence of that proof, conclude that they weren't fair. That's not logical. What was truly unfair and undemocratic was the Supreme Court's decision of 2000. But that's a separate issue.

Sanity -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 7:12:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Fargle, I'm not claiming that the elections were fair. Or unfair. I'm saying that you can't ask ordinary Collarme users to PROVE that they were fair, and, in the absence of that proof, conclude that they weren't fair. That's not logical. What was truly unfair and undemocratic was the Supreme Court's decision of 2000. But that's a separate issue. I like the earlier point that you made, and I'd like to expand on it a little bit. Each district knows how they vote, and Speaker Pelosi's San Fransisco district sends up people like Nancy Pelosi. New York gives us people like Hillary and I think Chuck Schumer too, right? No surprises. Idaho sent up Larry Craig and I'll bet you whatever that he won't get the nod next time. It's all very predictable because of the demographics. If, as farglebargle insists, the elections were rigged then they would all be rigged. Who ever it is that is supposedly rigging them would consolidate power, we wouldn't have the splits that we see. Whoever would have all of it, and they don't. And so it's obvious to me for that reason alone that they are not rigged. Bush is fighting for every inch of power, and so are the Dems. What kind of a little green alien with his all-powerful mind-control rays would rig America's elections as pathetically as that?

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 8:23:17 PM)
quote: I'm saying that you can't ask ordinary Collarme users to PROVE that they were fair, Well, I think it's a reasonable question. Hand-in-hand with the RIGHT to Vote is the RESPONSIBILITY to understand and promote correct exercise of that right. I suggest that anyone who CANNOT assert the honesty and validity of their election results is negligent in their responsibilities, either the responsibility for understanding the process (proven by their inability to articulate the safeguards ) , OR in remedying the process ( in understanding that it's flawed, but still participating, and not calling for reform ).

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 8:26:57 PM)
quote: Now that I'm back though, I'll just say this. I don't have to prove or disprove anything to you. I mean, it's simple. Something as important as your vote... You must know exactly how it is safeguarded and verified to ensure that you aren't disenfranchised. So... Rather than continuing your pointless personal attacks, just consider the implications of your inability to provide the backing documentation to support your contention. Would you accept that level of accuracy from any institution handling your financial accounts? Why is your vote WORTH LESS than a penny in a bank account.

farglebargle -> RE: Don't Believe All the Polls You See (11/14/2007 8:29:06 PM)
quote: Bush is fighting for every inch of power, and so are the Dems. It's a fucking floorshow to entertain the gullible while they are being ripped off.

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