RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 8:28:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Dear AS,
 
Oops, sorry! I get all you whackos confused<g>. Thanks for the evening- this has been fun. Lets do slaves vs. submissives tomorrow?
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence


Don't make me start another safeword thread... [;)]



topcat -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 8:36:52 PM)

Dear Carlie-
 
I accept that belief is not rational, and really doesn't have a relation to one's intelligence- but hopefully, one would be intelligent enough to disregard it in choosing one's actions.
 
Actually, 'stay warm', refers to this:


In this world so far from whole,
in time coldness 'comes the norm.
But there are those who nurture their soul,
and more, over time, become warm.
 
All are taught the same lessons,
all are marked by the knife.
Some turn cold as Hessians,
some learn warmth and light.
 
I traveled in a distant land,
where none could speak my name.
Illuminated by a proffered hand,
I saw at once we were the same.
 
Sorrow falls from her fingers,
into the keys and away.
Returns as phosphor and lingers,
From those who feel the same way.
 
When they've discounted all you've done,
and mean to do you harm,
remember you're not the only one,
hang onto your heart, and stay warm.
 
LF, Dec '96
 
Notice- no god needed<g>. Have a lovely thanksgiving, and of course,
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence
 
PS- Pascal's wager is the gambit of a moral coward. Really.



flower2007 -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 8:49:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

 Do you think it is possible for someone to have 'faith' in God (or your deity or religion of choice) and live a BDSM lifestyle at the same time?If so how do you reconcile the two ?
I can`t wait to hear what folks say to this one .


I'm what most would consider "fundamentalist" Christian and have no problem with it - at least within the boundaries of marriage.  That means no sex before and no one besides husband and wife after.  I tend to interpret the Bible fairly literally and see nothing that forbids kinky sex.  It always shocks me that people do.

(By the way, some of the comments in this thread are why I tend to hide my faith.  There is NOTHING ok about the name calling and hatred towards Christians.  One would think people who are judged for participating in BDSM would be more open-minded)

Edited for a whole bunch of typos



carlie310 -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 8:58:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat


PS- Pascal's wager is the gambit of a moral coward. Really.


Pascal's wager was an attempt to reduce faith to logic. It doesn't work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

-there is no remission without blood-


Would you like to source that paraphrase, just for irony's sake?

(I am having fun, a little mental aerobics as I whip the cream and beat the egg whites for my pumpkin pies. I'm glad to see you are as well.)



LadyChef -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 9:06:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flower2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

 Do you think it is possible for someone to have 'faith' in God (or your deity or religion of choice) and live a BDSM lifestyle at the same time?If so how do you reconcile the two ?
I can`t wait to hear what folks say to this one .


I'm what most would consider "fundamentalist" Christian and have no problem with it - at least within the boundaries of marriage.  That means no sex before and no one besides husband and wife after.  I tend to interpret the Bible fairly literally and see nothing that forbids kinky sex.  It always shocks me that people do.

(By the way, some of the comments in this thread are why I tend to hide my faith.  There is NOTHING ok about the name calling and hatred towards Christians.  One would think people who are judged for participating in BDSM would be more open-minded)

Edited for a whole bunch of typos


Dear flower2007,
As an educated woman who holds a couple of degrees (in Arts and Management, but degrees from an accredited university, nonetheless), has been a Spirit-filled believer for nearly 10 years, and has never practiced or paticipated in any other "religious" sects, (other than capitalism and hedonism [how I was raised, not really religions, but we worshipped the Benjamin and did whatever we wanted] which fail you), and have found more criticism of beliefs on this thread than of the OP. The TRUTH is, whenever God's name, His people, or His Word become the topic, be prepared to be bashed, attacked, whipped, called out of your name, put down, crushed, stomped (are you a sub/or slave), cut down,(did I mention criticized) and basically told YOU"RE CRAZY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. When it all comes down to it, you can always go to God to heal those wounds, and come back out with your shield (you know "Armor of God", which you need to wear at all times). Be Blessed flower2007 and stay encouraged.



ItalianSMistress -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 9:55:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

 Do you think it is possible for someone to have 'faith' in God (or your deity or religion of choice) and live a BDSM lifestyle at the same time?If so how do you reconcile the two ?
I can`t wait to hear what folks say to this one .


It is very possible, I am a Catholic and I go to church and I am also one of the most sadistic fuckers on the planet, lol.  I never felt weird about it, I think cuz I am also gay, and My thought on that was always God made Me gay, I was born this way, so it can not be wrong.  So the same thing applies here I think. 



stella41b -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 10:16:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

 Do you think it is possible for someone to have 'faith' in God (or your deity or religion of choice) and live a BDSM lifestyle at the same time?If so how do you reconcile the two ?
I can`t wait to hear what folks say to this one .


Hmm, a very interesting question here.

I don't have 'faith' in God. I have the knowledge that God exists (God here is used purely in the common English language manner). I have knowledge that BDSM exists. God is a fact. BDSM is a fact. Why would there therefore be any problem reconciling the two? Unless of course you feel uncomfortable with either one or the other.



Aswad -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 10:33:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

If 'god' as you use it, is not omniscent and omnipotent, what is he? pretty smart and fairly strong?


Where does this nonsense about omniscient and omnipotent being necessary attributes of a god come from? There are a fair number of different religions out there wherein those are not even remotely the case. You appear to be talking about mainstream Abrahamic organized religion, which makes it seem like you have a grudge, and are projecting based on that grudge and/or ignorance of other belief systems.

Consider the Jungian idea of archetypes, for instance.

In various faiths, the gods are like the archetypes, and worship consists of attempting to exemplify the archetype as well as possible, living after the example it sets. In short, not much different from what various forms of esoteric psychology may involve. And really not all that much of a magical mode of thought, if viewed from an atheistic angle.

Hell, most people think in a magical way about their household electronics. Would you argue them incompetent on the grounds of lacking sufficient knowledge of how their electronics work? Probably not. How about if they've occasionally smacked something technological in the hopes of getting it to work properly again? It's magical thinking, yanno.

Omnipotence is a paradox in itself. And omniscience prohibits the coexistance of omnipotence and will. In fact, to be omniscient, I'm pretty sure you'd have to be, and remain, external to the universe. In the sense of there being absolutely no causal chains inside the universe that involve you; at least beyond any purported moment of creation.

It's quite possible to approach faith from a rational angle. It's also quite impossible to approach the entirety of life without any faith or beliefs. The simple reason being that there are gaps in our knowledge of even the most basic aspects of life. Rational thought, like scientific method, is a tool. It does not provide a purpose. And it relies on various forms of knowledge. Philosophically speaking, any form of knowledge is a belief.

Health,
al-Aswad.



Aswad -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 10:42:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

All the "Sex is sin" stuff comes from St. Augustine's "City of God".


Well, certain sexual practices are condemned, in theory. In practice, those parts of the Bible deal with establishing a Jewish culture and identity as seperate from the Canaanites around them. They take the tack that Nietzsche described as a slave morality: start from Other, then define Self in opposition to that. Now, Canaan permitted same-sex relations, poly, and just about everything prohibited by the TOS on CM.

Seems an obvious choice to pick those practices as something that's easy to work with in creating "evil."

Long story short, if God minds me bending over for you, it's prolly because it's against my nature to be on the receiving end, not because he actually gives a flying fig about the same-sex issue. That's something some churches don't really want to even consider, let alone admit to themselves, for various reasons, many of them political in nature.

For that matter, last I read, we're born bisexual, but learn a preference based on scent.

Rearing in modern Western culture turns that preference into an absolute.

Health,
al-Aswad.



Aswad -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 10:43:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlie310

I assume you realize that you have declared most of the people who have ever lived mentally ill. 


I see no problem with that assertion. [:D]

Health,
al-Aswad.



Aswad -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 10:45:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

God is Good, it creates a belief that one is accountable to one with more power than oneself. Only crazies use it as an excuse to do evil things.


I've rarely, if ever, heard the false dichotomy of slave morality expressed so succinctly.

Health,
al-Aswad.



Aswad -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 10:48:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Time to grow up, people, and stop blaming goods will for our wars, poverty, cultural injustice, genocide, and the intrawebs destabilising influance on marriages in america.


This is a good argument against the litigacious culture in the US at the moment.
But not a good argument against religions that espouse personal accountability, hmm?

Health,
al-Aswad.



Aswad -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 10:50:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Am I the only one who's noticed that the atheists on CM seem to be way more dogmatic and evangelical that the religious folk?


You are not...
...and in my experience, CM is a microcosm of the world on this point.
I wonder when we'll see the belief in absence lead to a crusade or jihad against other beliefs?

Health,
al-Aswad.



Aswad -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 10:54:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

when I am king, it's gonna be be think or die.


Tempting as that might sound to me as a thinking man, I'd have to disagree.
However, you did just take the stance of militant religious fanatic.
That your religion is atheism doesn't improve things a lot.
Condemning the Aztec seems hypocritical of you.

Health,
al-Aswad.



kirby104 -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 11:05:16 PM)

I believe in God. There isn't any conflict with my belief and the lifestyle. It is part of who I am.



carlie310 -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/21/2007 11:51:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlie310

I assume you realize that you have declared most of the people who have ever lived mentally ill. 


I see no problem with that assertion. [:D]

Health,
al-Aswad.



All the world is mad save thee and me, and I am not so sure about thee. It's the not competent part I've got a problem with. . .



Aswad -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/22/2007 12:27:22 AM)

No need not to be sure about me. I'm certifiable. [sm=banana.gif]

But, yeah, competency is a very complicated question.

Health,
al-Aswad.



topcat -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/22/2007 5:41:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlie310

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat


PS- Pascal's wager is the gambit of a moral coward. Really.


Pascal's wager was an attempt to reduce faith to logic. It doesn't work.
 

Dear Carlie-
 
True, but it also always struck me as being rather slimy and craven- 'I don't believe, but I'll pretend to, just in case there is pie in the sky by and by...'

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

-there is no remission without blood-


Would you like to source that paraphrase, just for irony's sake?

(I am having fun, a little mental aerobics as I whip the cream and beat the egg whites for my pumpkin pies. I'm glad to see you are as well.)


Herbrews 9:22, "near to all things are, by the torah, cleaned out with blood, without that there is blood poured forth, there is no remission of sin" (my translation from the hebrew). If I did have a a faith, I would not be able to accept the concept of devine forgiveness- this was a big issue for me, way back when I was trying to be Christian.
 
 In my eyes the price of your life is your life, your blood, and nothing will wash away the stain of my transgressions- letting JC take the fall is a cowards way out.
 
As I have said, I was carrying the arguement to the extremes, and parodying religion to some extent, but I did have a wonderful time with it.  Thank you, and thank you to all that particpated. I admire faith, and wish I had more of it, and a few of you impressed me very much.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence



mnottertail -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/22/2007 5:43:44 AM)

And here I thought it was a sadists warning to the recalcitrant slave.

Leviticus



topcat -> RE: * Beliefs and beatings * (11/22/2007 5:53:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And here I thought it was a sadists warning to the recalcitrant slave.

Leviticus



Well, that too...



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