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Aimtoplease101 -> Women and Men and Relationships (11/21/2007 11:58:24 PM)

Browsing though profiles on the night before a long holiday weekend made me notice somewhat of a trend in women's profiles (sub, Domme and switch) to state that they were not interested in casual play, but rather were seeking LTR's.  From a very unscientific sampling, this appears much more prevalent in women's profiles than in men's.

That made me recall a conversation from the dorms many years ago in my first year of college between a group of mostly freshmen men and women about attitudes towards casual sex and relationships.  Not surprisingly, the men were more willing to engage in, and the women more wary of, casual intimacy.

We hypothesized (as college kids often will) about the reasons for this difference.  Societal reputation (stud v. slut), biological programming (spreading seed v. nuturing offspring), the supposed inherent power differential between men and women favoring the man expressed through sex (which shows how little we knew back then!), etc.

A lot of the type of factors we discussed those many years ago, however, are not present in Femdom relationships between mature participants.  Nonetheless, the trend seems to continue, at least based on what I observe in the profiles on this site, of woman, including Dommes, being less interested to casual and non-committed interactions.

To reopen, with a new twist, the discussion from long ago: (a) do you notice the same tendency; and (b) to what do you attribute it?

Best regards, ATP 







laurell3 -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 12:02:40 AM)

I don't read other women's profiles.  However, for me without a substantial mental and emotional connection I don't see sex as having that much lasting value personally.  Novel is only novel so long and I don't just want a sex partner I want a friend that I have history with that knows me and is there for me.  For me, casual sex can be temporarily fulfilling, but there's a much greater level of trust and intimacy with someone I really know and know they will be around for and with me.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 12:22:23 AM)

Well, there's a piece of data that you're missing. We might be HERE to look for relationships or we might be HERE to look for casual sex. It doesn't mean that we don't seek the other when NOT here. If I find something from this site, I'm apt to follow a relationship because that's what I'm striving for in this aspect of my life. But, I've been on other sites just looking for sex (and found it...and a lot of really nice men).

Also, don't forget the gay, bi and lesbian populations. How does they figure into your model?

Master Fire



Aimtoplease101 -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 12:39:32 AM)

Well now you've gone and gotten things all complicated.

My very unscientific survey paints with a broad brush, assuming that the variables you identify should roughly even out between the sexes.

Do I interpret your post as a statement that you don't think there's a significant difference in men's and women's attitudes towards casual play?

Regards, ATP



TNstepsout -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 6:04:48 AM)

I don't like casual sex. At one time perhaps it was related to societal expectations and the stigma of feeling like a "slut" but now it's really just the way I'm made. I don't feel comfortable being intimate with someone I don't know and feel some rapport with. In fact for me, sex is really more the physical expression of an emotional intimacy that blossoms from feeling really close and bonded to someone else. Without that bond I don't get turned on and if I'm not turned on, sex feels like molestation.

That doesn't mean I'm looking for an LTR either. IMO there is a lot of room on the continuum between casual and LTR. I'm somewhere in between.



rubberpet -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 7:42:00 AM)

I am one of the few subby guys on here who was looking for a long-term, monogamous relationship with my domme.  I found the domme of my dreams and am happier than I have ever been.  I've never been the kind to add notches to my stud rep by sleeping with a lot of women.  I'm just not wired that way.  I need the emotional connection just as much as the physical.  If I'm not in love with the woman, I won't have sex with her..simple as that.  I want one woman for the rest of my life and that woman is Mistress.  She is just the complete package for me[:)]

In my opinion, while most men think the more women they sleep with, the bigger the studs they are, I think women look for how many meaningful, long-term relationship the guys had as a guide for the kind of man they are.  Once again, just my opinion.



ShaktiSama -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 7:52:45 AM)

I find that women are much more likely to seek casual play under monitored conditions, as at semi-public play clubs.  They are much more open when their personal safety is assured. 

Most women are smart enough to be aware of the risks of meeting a total stranger in private for sexual play, and are not interested in being raped and murdered.  Safe conditions with a dungeon monitor and enough people around to keep your date from turning into Ted Bundy, and they are much more willing to experiment.

And for the record, dommes are just as likely to be attacked and hurt by psychotic men as submissive women are.  A good deal of violence against women is motivated by the desire to attack and destroy feminine power; dommes inspire rage in these individuals.

Sexual and interpersonal dominance does not make you invincible and trust has to be mutual--the risk is not all on the side of the submissive, in BDSM.  Most women of any orientation do not trust easily and are not easily swayed by libido into doing something that will get us hurt.  We are at least 80% more likely to suffer negative consequence from ANY form of sexual contact than a man is, and we know it.



Aimtoplease101 -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 9:53:13 AM)

There seems to be an assumption here that casual play in a D/s context entails sex.  I don't think that's often the case.  In fact, the more casual the relationship, the less likely the D/s interaction is to include "sex," in whatever form.

I also don't agree with the comment that few of the sub men here are seeking a LTR-- I think many of us are, if the relationship fits.

Regards, ATP



ShaktiSama -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 10:13:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101

There seems to be an assumption here that casual play in a D/s context entails sex. 


Whether penetration happens or not, play is usually a form of sexual contact, in that one or both parties are there to be aroused.  Regardless of whether you call spanking "non-sexual", any kind of "play" that takes place in a non-public, non-monitored place carries similar personal risks.  Any time you meet a stranger, male or female, there is a risk that you will suffer some negative consequence.

So far as why men are more willing to embrace this risk than women--I think most men simply see the potential for pleasure and enjoyment as being greater than the risk.  This is understandable.  The vast majority of rapes, beatings and murders between strangers are NOT committed by women.  If a man seeking some sort of pleasure had a higher percentage chance of being merely beaten, robbed, raped or killed for his trouble, rather than getting the spanking or "play" he was looking for, men would probably be every bit as hesitant as women are to trust a stranger.

This is not to say that bad things cannot and do not happen to men when they are seeking pleasure.  But women are conditioned from early childhood to fear strangers and anticipate sexual violence.  This places a rather large wall in the way of casual play, which can only be removed when the fear for one's personal safety is removed--either by being in a "safe zone" physically, like a club or play party, or being in a "safe one" emotionally, like a more personal relationship.




MzMia -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 10:29:56 AM)

WOW, I love this topic!
I mention this same FACT on my profile!

I love to see a male that actually "gets it".
As I said, I noticed this a long time ago.
I don't mind having males as friends, but I don't do casual intimate relationships or encounters.
I stopped casual relationships in the late 80's.
Most of what I desire to do in this lifestyle, IS intimate so no, casual play is not an option
for ME.
 
This also explains why many here are single, and have no partner in this lifestyle.
As quiet as its kept, many Mistresses have been seeking a life-time mate on here, for years.
And when they finally find someone, often it does not last "years".
It's sad when people go on and on about a relationship on here and it ends in a few weeks.
sad actually...Browse the profiles, LOL.
There are tons of Dominant women on here that have been looking, and will be looking for years.
So I never buy that "there are so many great submissives" running around, crapola.
The only way many submissive males are going to get what they want is if they pull out their Visa card and spend some $$$.
Great post, it might even enlighten some of the unenlightened. 
[sm=applause.gif]
Also, I read ALL  types of profiles on here.
I have also been a member since 2004, and there are ALOT more Professionals on here,
than there were almost 4 years ago.
There is a reason, that so many women turn Pro---there is a void, and they are filling it.
Funny, how there are so many single Dominant women, yet so many men can only find
domination by paying for it.
Things that make ya go, hummmmm.



RumpusParable -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 12:58:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101
To reopen, with a new twist, the discussion from long ago: (a) do you notice the same tendency; and (b) to what do you attribute it?


I notice the same tendency in stated desires, but also the same tendency in actual doings...  In both the BDSM and vanilla realms males and females tend to *generally* state wanting different things but going about it all most the same.

I attribute the differences in expression as being just from different sides of the cultural situation.

Speaking as one who tends to indicate in my profiles that I'm looking for something more long-term, I'd like to give my personal reasons to help explain some of the goings ons with these things.

I tend to express my interest and willingness in something long term because short-term is easy to find and taken for granted.  Play partners aren't hard to find, top or bottom.  One-night stands or casual dating aren't hard to find (or let yourself be found).

I'm very casual sexually and socially in these things, so I don't bother to mention them...  I just live a life open to them.

But I'm not always open to something more serious, time-involved or long-term so when I am I state so so that others are aware I'm interested and ready for that.

With the males and females I've known over my adult life, I can't say I've seen at all a significant difference in how often one or the other has casual sex/dating or BDSM play... just in what they state they are looking for at a particular time.

Add in the cultural issues of females being openly looking for non-committed play and/or sex plus in places like here where there are profiles the deluge of nonsense email a female gets it makes sense for many to state "nothing casuall" or "long-term committed only" while still having or being open to casual play with those who catch their eye than to state up front "I'm up for promiscuity and/or casual play!".

If only for the sake of keeping the wankermail down and it's meatlife equivalents, it's easier to not say such things.



RumpusParable -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 1:02:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Well, there's a piece of data that you're missing. We might be HERE to look for relationships or we might be HERE to look for casual sex. It doesn't mean that we don't seek the other when NOT here.


Touching in on this, too, as it relates to a fair bit of what I said but in another way.  My profile is one that says little about casual play as I'm here in general hopes of finding something more long-term or involved right now.  At other times it's included more of a casual possibility, but not currently.   Part of that is that right now I'm getting plenty of casual play.  I've some great real-time friends and acquaintances that I get this from so, while I'm open to it if someone interesting comes along, I'm not *seeking* it.

I also shape my profile depending on what site I'm on and what I'm looking for on *that site*, as MasterFireMaam described.



youngsubgeoff -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 1:14:51 PM)

perhaps because Ive been through the cheap one night stands, I want something deeper.I want a LTR. I no longer do casual sex. I want to actually know the person Im with, not just have a face and a name.



ottRopesandKnots -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 2:10:17 PM)

In both the BDSM and vanilla worlds I've found that women choose to *say* they're looking for LTR over casual play, but that doesn't mean they aren't at all interested in casual play.  The subtle difference is that men are more likely to state they're seeking casual play, whereas women are more discrete.  It may also be the case that most women have a much easier time of finding casual play than most men.  The elusive relationship is the LTR, that's the one people need assistance in finding so that's why it gets stated.  Ultimately I'd love to find the elusive LTR as well, but my standards for LTR are much more stringent than my standards (yeah, there are some!) for a more casual relationship.

I can honestly say that every casual physical relationship I've ever been involved in has included a woman who was willing to participate in said casual relationship.



pixelslave -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 3:22:12 PM)

My observation has been that very often, people, both men and women alike, use casual sex as a means of trying to get their needs for intimacy satisfied.  Eventually, most discover that no matter how many one-nighters they have, casual encounters will never fill the void that's missing in their lives from not having real relationships with others that begin someplace besides having casual sex with a stranger and then goes beyond it.  Casual sex is something that often gives people an immediate, but false sense of intimacy.  IMO, once people begin having real relationships, they open the doors to more; including that ever so elusive relationship with "The Special One" (for those who aren't poly). [;)]
 
 - pixel
 
   Collared to Majik
 



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 3:37:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101

Do I interpret your post as a statement that you don't think there's a significant difference in men's and women's attitudes towards casual play?


In general, I know more women than men who don't want casual play. But, in those who do, I find they have the same attitudes.

Master Fire



ElanSubdued -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 4:54:26 PM)

Aimtoplease101,

quote:

Browsing though profiles on the night before a long holiday weekend made me notice somewhat of a trend in women's profiles (sub, Domme and switch) to state that they were not interested in casual play, but rather were seeking LTR's.  From a very unscientific sampling, this appears much more prevalent in women's profiles than in men's.


I think this all depends on how, what, when, and where you sample.  On Collar Me, my observation is very different from yours.  Indeed, many women do look for casual play, secondary and tertiary partners, and so on.  In the more general sense, my experience is that gender has very little to do with one's desire for long-term relationships (or for monogamy versus polyamory for that matter).  The categories you've used can also lead to sampling discrepancies.  For example, I certainly know people who have casual play relationships that are, none-the-less, long-term.

Elan.



LadyPact -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 5:05:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101

Browsing though profiles on the night before a long holiday weekend made me notice somewhat of a trend in women's profiles (sub, Domme and switch) to state that they were not interested in casual play, but rather were seeking LTR's.  From a very unscientific sampling, this appears much more prevalent in women's profiles than in men's.

To reopen, with a new twist, the discussion from long ago: (a) do you notice the same tendency; and (b) to what do you attribute it?

Best regards, ATP 



Big shocker here.  I'm different.  Don't everybody faint at once.
 
I chopped a good portion of your post because I'm not looking at this as in a sexual way.  I'm relating this as a casual BDSM play area specifically.  I know that's not what you meant, but it made Me think of it, so I thought I'd share what My ramblings are on the subject.
 
The thing is, I already have two LTR's.  To be honest, with My submissive being collared so recently, I go against the norm that you noticed.  I'm not in any way looking for another "relationship".  However, I still very much enjoy casual (not consumated sexually) play.  This is one of those areas that My boy and My husband understand about Me completely.  I still enjoy Topping others.  In fact, they both get a kick out of watching Me and seeing My eyes light up when I'm in Top space.  It's one of those things that attracted them to Me in particular to begin with and neither of them would even think of asking Me to give it up.
 
I think the trend that you might have noticed goes to the basic ideal of folks don't search for what they already have.  Most females out there have every option to play casually, so they are looking for the deeper, more intense relationships.  (How many women do you know that, if they wanted to, couldn't go to a bar and score a one nighter?)  Finding the casual arrangements for females is a lot easier.  You don't really have to look for them.  It are those things that are not so easy to find, that you actually have to look for.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 9:05:21 PM)

I love casual play, and I can do it pretty much any time I want.  There's a few boys out there who would be thrilled if I rang them up and said I was coming over with my toybag.  I don't have sex with them, and they don't care, so it's all good.  Playing is just playing.

I am NOT looking for the kind of casual play where I am just the person with the toys.  If I said that I was looking for casual play, I would be flooded with requests for ballbusting, foot worship, and every other fetish that you can think of.  No, thanks. 



Wickad -> RE: Women and Men and Relationships (11/22/2007 9:30:44 PM)

(fast reply)

Someone once mentioned that women know what they are looking for (ie: sex, play, short term, long term, etc) and are willing to state it, whereas men use sex as a way to determine if they want to move forward to long term without ever really know they were looking for long term.  I've often told men who have claimed to be looking for casual play or sex and end up in long term, committed relationships that ..."they found exactly what they weren't looking for".

For me, ... it just boils down to women tend to articulate what they want, and men just hope for the best - lol.

This of course is my opinion and experience, and mileage may vary.
Wickad



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