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What to say? - 11/26/2007 2:26:19 PM

liminalRapture

Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
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OK, 4th date with a "dominant" seeking a "slave" and he still hasn't kissed me or dominated me (the guy with less experience I posted about a couple of weeks ago). Then, he gets me to top him (very light--he had his shirt off and wanted to be tickled and held down and told he needs to take more--it wasn't just asking me to tickle him), which I might be OK with once I felt sure someone could dominate me, but it is pretty clear to me he couldn't, so I won't see him again. (What was bizarre, was he was quite concerned that my profile said I'd consider a switch because he did not want to switch! Yeah. Right.)

BUT, he kept saying "do you like doing that?" and I'd say "yes" which wasn't true, but figure if he's enjoying it, it would be a total buzz kill to say "not really." Then he wants to know why I enjoy it, what I like about it, etc., etc., etc. And I'm feeling pretty proud of myself for pulling it off as well as I did on the physical level, but I have no friggin clue what to say at that point and can only lie so much. I was also worried if I went too far with it, it would give him totally the wrong idea. Somehow, the physical part was OK to do, but to then spin a story as to how I loved watching him writhe, or whatever, I couldn't go there honestly. Finally, I said "did I give you permission to speak" and couple of times, and then asked if he needed to be gagged and he quit it.

So, if this came up with someone I'd actually want to see again: is that a lie? Or is it just appropriate window dressing? What would you do? I'm a very verbal person and totally love it when someone talks to me in a situation like that, and if I were actually involved with someone, I'd want to make it more pleasurable for him, but don't really know where to go with something like that. Any better comeback lines? Do you talk him through what he wants then tell him after you were just trying to please him? I've done creative writing--I could probably come up with something, but wouldn't want to live that defining a dynamic.

Post #: 1

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 2:47:39 PM

sakidorei

Posts: 65
Status: offline

Wow ... i am sure you are going to lots of responses to this but ... i'll at least share my take on it ... it's worth about a nickel but anyways ...

i'd be honest and say "i'm sorry, this is making me uncomfortable". It would probably stop things cold but as far as i am concerned you probably aren't getting what you bargained for if He wants you to do things that make you feel that you are dominanting Him. This isn't i assume a 'nilla relationship with kinky exploration. You said that you were looking for a dom and you'd consider a switch but He was adament that He wasn't into it. Yet He put you in that place. i guess you have to consider two things -

1) having had this experience would you still consider a switch?

2) Was it just Him or did the experience really squick you out cause it's just not you?

i had a close friend that was a Dom to everyone around Him on the surface. He was very good to me during a very rough time of my life ... the death of my first Master and many difficult family situations as my mom died close to the same time period - only months apart. He was so there for me ... that when He finally confessed to me privately and in confidence that He needed to be dominated and that He didn't feel that He could tell anyone else about it or trust anyone else with it ... i fell for it hook, line and sinker.

i started researching professional Dommes and stuff to better understand the perspective and i was surprised at the number of disclosures that initially someone got into being a professional Domme in order to please someone in their private lives. So i rationalized it to myself that i could do this for Him as an act of pleasing Him and that would be my fulfillment and motivation. i tried to see it as just a different way of pleasing Him. A much older and wiser Dominant that i confided in about the situation (not mentioning names) warned me at the time that it would seriously mess me up and not to do it in this case.

i did not heed His advice. i ended up being a Dominant to the guy for a while but it really messed with me ... i felt yucky after every session ... about myself and about Him. i started to question myself and who i really was as a person and as a submissive myself. My self esteem suffered and in the end ... i had to break it off because it was very deterimental to me.

Now others may have very positive stories but i learned some valuable things about myself and i can't ignore those ... not even to please someone ... but especially not to humor someone i'm not even in a committed relationship with. IF it was not ok with you ... then don't do it again and don't do it for someone else ... be honest. Yeah it might be a buzz kill at the moment but if you aren't committed to the person anyway and only find them to be -interesting- then why go through all the discomfort with someone who clearly gets off on something that you don't?

i mean ... are you going to want to do it again and again? If they asked you for it once they obviously like it and wanted to relish it with you ... and if you didn't like it ... are you prepared to pretend your way into an entire relationship in which your role is very uncomfortable to you?

In the end ... what did it cost you? If nothing ... have at it. But if it made you feel that you compromised yourself ... then you only end up feeling like a yuck inside and that's not worth someone else's momentary pleasure -- especially if we are only just starting to go out.

~saki
Property of Master D.

< Message edited by sakidorei -- 11/26/2007 2:49:35 PM >

_____________________________

Followers, do not backlead. Not only does it make leading more difficult, but it also makes it more difficult for the leader to avoid collisions.

(in reply to liminalRapture)

Post #: 2

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 5:00:06 PM

liminalRapture

Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sakidorei
<snip>
1) having had this experience would you still consider a switch?

2) Was it just Him or did the experience really squick you out cause it's just not you?
<snip>
In the end ... what did it cost you? If nothing ... have at it. But if it made you feel that you compromised yourself ... then you only end up feeling like a yuck inside and that's not worth someone else's momentary pleasure -- especially if we are only just starting to go out.

It didn't make me feel like I'd compromised myself, and I'd still consider switching occasionally, but only if it was 80/20 with them in charge 80% of the time and letting me know when they wanted it. I have a theatre background and can give a good performance if I'm clear of the role, and I'm pretty GGG--if someone has a lime jello fetish, I'll start boiling water. It won't do anything for me, but it won't cost me anything (other than possibly staining the tub, plus a lot of 89 cent boxes of jello, but I can handle that).

I already suspected this guy couldn't dominate me--I mean there were multiple reasons, but and I liked his values and I liked the conversation and I liked him on a vanilla level (I seem to be the only person who finds kinky folk, here on this cite, that I hit it off with really well on a nilla level and then the kinky stuff doesn't work right for me), but the fact that he would want me to dominate him before he had dominated me, when I was already questioning whether he was capable of dominating me, made me realize it just wouldn't work.

What I wouldn't want is to play something like this out with someone and then create a situation where they have totally wrong expectations about what turns me on. I feel like saying "yes" when he says "are you enjoying this" isn't really a lie, and I really wouldn't mind doing it every week for someone that other things are working with. But how much does bedroom talk affect the relationship dynamic?

(in reply to sakidorei)

Post #: 3

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 5:24:43 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

i cannot switch; it's a lack of brainpower. i have no idea what to do. i had one "Dom" tell me that He would "order me to take control" at times. i told Him i couldn't perform such a feat. He said if He collared me, it'd be my duty.

Well, it may be a duty in some situations, but i'd fail at it.

pinksugarsub

_____________________________

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Post #: 4

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 5:56:19 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I think he's really a do me bottom trying to get you to do what he wants by using your need to please against you. And don't lie- as you can see that only leads to more trouble.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 5

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 6:50:25 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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Ya lost me at lying...

(in reply to liminalRapture)

Post #: 6

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 7:12:38 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

Reminds me of an old story.

I hate, and I mean HATE any kind of bean casserole. My old lady neighbor made one of the nasty things for me when I moved in to my house, to welcome me. Yippee. Welcome to the neighborhood.

Anyway, I threw it away, kept the dish an appropriate amount of time, washed it, and returned it to her a few days later. She asked me if I liked it. I gave her a rave review. Well. Now she makes it every couple of weeks AND she made it for Thanksgiving dinner (to which my daughter invited her, unbeknownst to me) and I had to ... gack ... eat it. I thought I was going to puke in my plate, which is really bad form for a festive gathering, you know.

My advice to you is, if you don't want to gag on bean casserole for the next hundred and fifty years, speak up. It doesn't taste any better later.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 7

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 7:13:23 PM

liminalRapture

Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
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I'm not going out with this guy again--but, is it really lying to say you are enjoying something when your partner clearly is and asks if you are enjoying it? I mean, isn't that just part of dirty talk? Don't we all say what the other person wants to hear in the heat of the moment?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 8

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 7:23:24 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture

I'm not going out with this guy again--but, is it really lying to say you are enjoying something when your partner clearly is and asks if you are enjoying it? I mean, isn't that just part of dirty talk? Don't we all say what the other person wants to hear in the heat of the moment?

Lying in the heat of the moment is the worst time to lie.
You are setting yourself up for unsatisfying sex for the rest of your life.
If anything, the heat of the moment is when you need to be PAINFULLY HONEST!

Akasha

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(in reply to liminalRapture)

Post #: 9

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 9:18:38 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture
I'm not going out with this guy again--but, is it really lying to say you are enjoying something when your partner clearly is and asks if you are enjoying it? I mean, isn't that just part of dirty talk? Don't we all say what the other person wants to hear in the heat of the moment?

Sorry, no. I did that far too many years with far too many people leading down to nothing to keep failing that lesson. Although getting paid and being very good at it was some consolation.

I'm still willing to become a chimera for someone else if they need it, if they need to use me to pour something out in themselves, to experience something reflected back to them. But only if there is a particular connection, in a very sacred moment.

Thus the blessing in choosing a partner who not only knows how to laugh at themselves when things aren't fantastic, but also that I can soothe their small ego bruises and still sleep happily next to.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to liminalRapture)

Post #: 10

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 9:30:51 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture
I'm not going out with this guy again--but, is it really lying to say you are enjoying something when your partner clearly is and asks if you are enjoying it? I mean, isn't that just part of dirty talk? Don't we all say what the other person wants to hear in the heat of the moment?

Sorry, no. I did that far too many years with far too many people leading down to nothing to keep failing that lesson. Although getting paid and being very good at it was some consolation.

I'm still willing to become a chimera for someone else if they need it, if they need to use me to pour something out in themselves, to experience something reflected back to them. But only if there is a particular connection, in a very sacred moment.

Thus the blessing in choosing a partner who not only knows how to laugh at themselves when things aren't fantastic, but also that I can soothe their small ego bruises and still sleep happily next to.

I agree and other than assessing where someone that is new to you is at I think most of these questions are better left for aftercare for that very reason. If someone asks me during the act if I like it, I'm not going to lie and if they truly don't want the real answer I think they need to learn to not ask the question or not be emotionally reliant on the answer.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 11

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 9:33:16 PM

angelslave77

Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

Never Never lie, if you really dont like it speak up and move on to the next thing. If your partner is a decent person they will understand and then you can talk about it later

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 12

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 9:34:09 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Reminds me of an old story.

I hate, and I mean HATE any kind of bean casserole. My old lady neighbor made one of the nasty things for me when I moved in to my house, to welcome me. Yippee. Welcome to the neighborhood.

Anyway, I threw it away, kept the dish an appropriate amount of time, washed it, and returned it to her a few days later. She asked me if I liked it. I gave her a rave review. Well. Now she makes it every couple of weeks AND she made it for Thanksgiving dinner (to which my daughter invited her, unbeknownst to me) and I had to ... gack ... eat it. I thought I was going to puke in my plate, which is really bad form for a festive gathering, you know.

My advice to you is, if you don't want to gag on bean casserole for the next hundred and fifty years, speak up. It doesn't taste any better later.

This is a great and humorous analogy bat, thanks!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 13

RE: What to say? - 11/26/2007 9:34:45 PM

liminalRapture

Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Sorry, no. I did that far too many years with far too many people leading down to nothing to keep failing that lesson. Although getting paid and being very good at it was some consolation.

I'm still willing to become a chimera for someone else if they need it, if they need to use me to pour something out in themselves, to experience something reflected back to them. But only if there is a particular connection, in a very sacred moment.

Thus the blessing in choosing a partner who not only knows how to laugh at themselves when things aren't fantastic, but also that I can soothe their small ego bruises and still sleep happily next to.

That is beautifully put and very provocative.

I think there is a clarification I need to make for myself. If someone is giving me a backrub and he asks if I am enjoying it, I may say "yes, but 2 inches over and I'll be putty in your hands." If he is licking me and asks if I'm enjoying it--I will do my best to help him use his time in the most efficient time possible.

If I am rubbing someone's back and he asks if I'm enjoying it, I'll judge from a very different level. Do I enjoy being with him? Do I enjoy pleasing him? Would I rather be at his side than not? A 'yes' when he asks if I'm enjoying myself while I'm rubbing his back is very different than a 'yes I'm enjoying myself' when he's focusing on me.

Last night, I felt like I said a 'yes' thinking it was the latter, that he knew I was doing something he wanted, but was happy to please. But then when he wanted me to say why I enjoyed it, how it made me feel, I actually said at one point "I like pleasing you" and that was SO not what he wanted to hear. That was when it felt like my "yes, I'm enjoying it" turned into a lie. I have a different standard when I'm doing what someone else wants, and then he tried to make it about my pleasure at topping him, which was non-existent.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 14

RE: What to say? - 11/27/2007 5:01:26 PM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Reminds me of an old story.

I hate, and I mean HATE any kind of bean casserole. My old lady neighbor made one of the nasty things for me when I moved in to my house, to welcome me. Yippee. Welcome to the neighborhood.

Anyway, I threw it away, kept the dish an appropriate amount of time, washed it, and returned it to her a few days later. She asked me if I liked it. I gave her a rave review. Well. Now she makes it every couple of weeks AND she made it for Thanksgiving dinner (to which my daughter invited her, unbeknownst to me) and I had to ... gack ... eat it. I thought I was going to puke in my plate, which is really bad form for a festive gathering, you know.

My advice to you is, if you don't want to gag on bean casserole for the next hundred and fifty years, speak up. It doesn't taste any better later.

"oh thank you so much for your kindness, but my stomach was really unhappy the last few times you made it for me! i must be developing a sensitivity!"

i agree though. if you dont like something SAY so. you dont have to be blunt or rude, but you do have to make the other person understand that this is NOT to your likeing.

kitten, who perhaps has an overdeveloped sense of tact...

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 15

RE: What to say? - 11/27/2007 5:50:09 PM

Tigrita

Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline

I think you told the most tactful form of the truth, that you did enjoy it because you enjoyed that he enjoyed it. Beyond that, if he wasn't pleased with your reasons for enjoying it, that is just incompatibility and that is just life. You guys obviously want different things from eachother. You tried to make the date go as smoothly as possible despite your conflicting feelings; that can only go so far. Chalk it up an awkward date and water under the bridge and good riddance.

Take care sweetie, you're better off without someone as incompatible as that wasting your time.

_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

(in reply to adoracat)

Post #: 16

RE: What to say? - 11/27/2007 6:26:34 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Yes. It's lying in my opnion. No I do not say what ever he wants to hear in the heat of the moment if I am not enjoyng what he's saying There was one time I did and later he wanted to do the same thing we'd talked about and I balked and he's like but you like it when we do phone sex.. and then I had to explain yeah but I didn't want to interupt your fantasy, so I just went along but i do not like that act... So no, I don't just spout what ever I think he wants to hear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture

I'm not going out with this guy again--but, is it really lying to say you are enjoying something when your partner clearly is and asks if you are enjoying it? I mean, isn't that just part of dirty talk? Don't we all say what the other person wants to hear in the heat of the moment?

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 11/27/2007 6:38:50 PM >

(in reply to liminalRapture)

Post #: 17

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