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RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/27/2007 4:14:59 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I will tell the experts in the self defense industry what you have stated... somehow I have more faith and trust in what they say will protect me, but you know, they only study real life self defense scenarios over the last 2 decades or longer...

An industry that represents deceit as valuable doesn't represent value to me. How would you know they aren't being deceitful in the result of their "study"? After all - deceit is a valuable tool.

quote:

As far as never being in a situation requiring a person to defend themselves... I suppose there will never be a break in when you are not home... or perhaps you never leave the house.. and I suppose beth should tell the intruder that you will be gone for hours and she is completely alone with no one expected to come home anytime in the near future. And I suppose there is always someone within hearing distance that can hear her screams... I suppose nothing could ever happen that would convince you to use deceit... even someone that plans on taking your life or the life of your slave... I don't know, I may even tell a rapist I had AIDS if I thought it might save me..

I'm sure you think saying you have AIDS would deter some rapists but since you like playing "what if..." games; what if the rapist responded with "GREAT- so do I!" Will you deceive them next with 'Hep C'?

I told my UM's at one point in their life there was a Santa Claus, so I'm not adverse to deceit; however unlike the defense training or you apparent position - its NOT among my first responses or first thoughts. It is also something I correct as soon as possible. It's definitely not a part of any of my relationships regardless if they are at the most elementary level of business, or acquaintance. It is surely not an aspect of my relationship with beth and is not something I would ever require of her. I require the opposite.

Meanwhile, I'm comfortable with the defenses in place for my possessions, inclusive of beth. There are tools in the house that are much louder than screams that can, and would, be used without necessitating deceit, with much more predictable outcomes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I would be deceitful in certain circumstances, but not all circumstances.

I'm sure you consider deceit as valuable asset as I do honesty. Again, I respect and accept the distinction between us.

I don't believe in the end justifying the means. The result is no end to rationalization. At some point reality and truth have to be reconciled with the lies that have been represented as truth. At that point there is no possibility of personal integrity, or to the point of the OP, relationship integrity. My personal believe is the integrity of the means represents as much value as that which was placed on the goal.

The New England Patriots may be the best football team to ever be put together in the NFL. However, even if they go undefeated right through the Superbowl, the fact they got caught cheating will be a footnote to their season; even if the deceit had no impact on their record. I'd rather be a Jet fan.

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Post #: 21

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/27/2007 4:18:33 PM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I would tell them they are fucking drama queen and never to call me again.

lol and ditto

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RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/27/2007 4:36:58 PM

takenbyjohnr07

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Joined: 11/26/2007
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i trust my Owner more than anyone, also he has never given me a reason not to trust him. i doubt he ever will.

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Post #: 23

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/27/2007 4:49:02 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Merc, I hope beth is never in the position to have to lie to save her life, she will be dead or lose your respect... I wonder which choice she would make?

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RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/27/2007 4:52:37 PM

texancutie2

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Joined: 11/23/2007
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Not sure what the point is...and no clue whatsoever why anyone would want to do that. Sounds so online to me though, why bother?

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Post #: 25

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/27/2007 5:16:39 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
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Nope, I like keeping things clean in life and my karma in a possitive state.

edited to add; I wouldn't trust or be involved with someone who asked me to be deceitful period.

Missy.

< Message edited by brightspot -- 11/27/2007 5:18:26 PM >

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Post #: 26

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/28/2007 11:27:13 AM

frm14slv

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Thanks for all the great posts. You have confirmed for me that I was not the only one who found a dom(me) asking their sub to engage in a potentially harmful deceit disturbing to say the least. And, that is not to mention that respondents to the blog post relating this action never questioned the impropriety of a dom(me) asking their sub to engage a deceit. Maybe I need to post about the deceitfulness of the dom(me)'s orders.

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Post #: 27

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/28/2007 11:28:35 AM

heartsemerge

Posts: 29
Joined: 10/13/2007
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I can speak from experience when it comes to this question.

I think it depends on the submissive herself. Her moral beliefs, the type of person their Dom is and how willing they are to go. My first Dom had a girl when he first met me. She eventually became pregnant. I know I will catch a lot of slack for proceeding with him even though I was aware of the situation, but understand my side.

I knew I was a slave and nothing more. I knew that she was aware that he was cheating and he made it clear to her he had no intentions on stopping (she eventually left him after the baby was born). I knew personal things about their relationship and the emotions and some of the past experiences which made it more clear to me as to why he was doing what he was doing with me. I personally have never been one to hold monogamy high up on the chart when considering a partner. Though, i feel that if you are to have a lasting poly relationship, both parties should discuss it and understand it and set ground rules that they BOTH/ALL feel comfortable with. I also feel that poly is not suited for everyone. it was obvious to me about six months into my relationship with him that it was never going to grow nor would i have ever been happy being in that situation. Therefore I left, but during the course of out relationship i always trusted him and til this day he still has not given me any reason not to trust him. though his actions were deceitful and could be judged as morally wrong, he was open, clear and honest about what he was doing and his intentions.

So in short (after all that lol ) I think you can trust your Dom if he ask you to do something deceitful, if he makes it clear as to why he wants you to do it, and his intentions behind it, even if you may not agree with his reasons, he was still honest and open with you.

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RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/28/2007 4:59:39 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Well, what about someone like me who lies to her bosses and coworkers? I need them to think I'm friendly, that I like and respect them, that I care about their opinion and that we get along and have a good relationship.

The reality is completely the opposite.

Am I bad because I choose to engage in those dynamics?

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RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/28/2007 6:06:19 PM

catize

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well, what about someone like me who lies to her bosses and coworkers? I need them to think I'm friendly, that I like and respect them, that I care about their opinion and that we get along and have a good relationship.
The reality is completely the opposite.

Am I bad because I choose to engage in those dynamics?

That’s hilarious!
I was told this week the most repeated complaint against me at work is that I’m too blunt and refuse to sugar coat issues……apparently I upset some co-workers!

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Post #: 30

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/28/2007 6:29:19 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well, what about someone like me who lies to her bosses and coworkers? I need them to think I'm friendly, that I like and respect them, that I care about their opinion and that we get along and have a good relationship.

The reality is completely the opposite.

Am I bad because I choose to engage in those dynamics?

You lying hussy you!

You make a good point.

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Post #: 31

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/28/2007 9:28:47 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well, what about someone like me who lies to her bosses and coworkers? I need them to think I'm friendly, that I like and respect them, that I care about their opinion and that we get along and have a good relationship.

The reality is completely the opposite.

Am I bad because I choose to engage in those dynamics?

Reminds me of the movie, "Liar! Liar!"

To answer the OP, I do what my Master tells me to do. I'm his tool to use as he sees fit. I can't see him having me do what you say in your example, however. As his property, I am allowed to voice a concern over any order, but he ultimately makes the decision and I ultimately do it.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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Post #: 32

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/28/2007 9:41:53 PM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: frm14slv

I'm sure everyone would agree that a submissive and/or slave must have implicit trust his/her dominant, Master or Mistress.

Would there ever be a time and/or place for the dominant to order their submissive to engage in an act of deceit?

As a submissive, what would you think if your dominant ordered you to engage in an act of deceit?

As a dominant, would you ever order your submissive to deceive someone?

P.S. FYI: I do not share my bdsm lifestyle with my family and vanilla friends, so in that regard, I, too, engage in deceit. The applicable type of deceit I am referring to is more serious and key to the trust that is necessary to a good bdsm relationship between a dominant and submissive.

This is one of those things that 100% depends on what you have in mind.

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Post #: 33

RE: Trust in your Dominant - 11/28/2007 9:42:59 PM

RumpusParable

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quote:

ORIGINAL: frm14slv

juliaoceania,

What would you think if your partner asked you to deceive someone else as if you wanted the other person to become your new dominant?

Why would anyone do this? It sounds like high school drama games...

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Post #: 34