RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce?

RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (Full Version)

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Stroke -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (12/5/2008 2:41:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bratb With all due Respect, i understand that everyone is entitled to Ttheir Oown opinions however statements like this can really confuse many submissives who are excited about recieving a " consideration collar ! " quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 I usually laugh when I see 'under consideration' I always translated that as--"I'm with him/her until somethhing better comes along" So you are suggesting that just because someone has a collar of consideration that others should think it is a good idea? That is like after a sports tournament you give everyone a trophy of participation because you don't want anyone to feel left out. It's not a real collar but be happy with it? That is celebrating mediocrity and not encouraging anyone to aspire to be better than they are. If the Dom won't get off the fence and produce a real collar then I would suggest finding a Dom who has the ability to make a decision regarding who they will and will not collar. Stroke

hardbodysub -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (12/6/2008 11:50:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bratb i would hope that Mmany Oothers here might take Your word " STUPID " to be most judgemental as i do ! quote: ORIGINAL: hardbodysub The entire idea of "under consideration" is stupid. If the sub is under consideration, then so is the dominant. Either party is just as free to do whatever they want. Yeah, so what? Most opinions are judgmental. Sorry I didn't sugar-coat it for you.

Esinn -> Under Consideration (8/31/2009 12:15:26 PM)
I had my own Under Consideration thread. I was unable to find it. I have been typing off and on with a 'self-described' submissive. Possibly she is a slave, her profile was initially vague - implying, "I do not really know what I want". I have not really poked or prodded - it is not relevant.. I initiated the conversation as vague profiles usually bore me and I wanted to find out how truly lazy she was. It has been a fairly laid back discussion more meaningful at this point than I initially intended. I am no expert, less than 4 years of direct "hands on experience". I still can not understand for the life of me when someone says, 'I am not really sure what I want' what the hell that means. This absolutely needs to be worked out in your mind based upon your own personal research, critical examination of your beliefs, meditations - what the heck ever.. To not do this is just lazy. This definition of what you want(hope for or expect), what submission/slavery/masochism is to you will be the foundation. I am not suggesting looking for a master to aide in this foundation is all bad.... I acknowledge the importance of a mentor or guide. But, to truly not know or be unable to articulate it in a meaningful method, if you are sincere is dangerous. I do not wish my point to be vague profiles or those seeking assistance in defining who they are is a sign of weakness/laziness(it has been implied [:-]) . However, new members with vague profiles who are sincere. . . If they have not done soul searching/due diligence open the personal playground to predators. After I discussed UC with the self-described submissive she replied: "i agree, i was unsure how these things went at first. still am actually but i thought that when u were talking seriously to someone thats how it went." She went on to say the Top who placed her immediately(too quickly) into UC was a douchebag(my word not hers) This is what the man who as a child was molested by a priest always tells us, "I thought that is how it was supposed to be." Under protection or Under consideration are meaningful tools in the shed. However, I believe online more often than not they are frequently abused by the weak and not so powerful. Our, her discussion with me has made the opinion I have had since signing up here in June seem to be more factual than just-a-opinion: "UC when used as a mechanism of control prior to a relationship being established is bull crap. It is a sign of a Top attempting to establish authority where they have none. Controlling the field and limiting 'the play' of the sub/slave/maso by using what sounds like a fairly authoritative and meaningful word is not reasonable. The Top seems to do it more often than not to paint themselves in a more favorable light of authority to distract the bottom."

softness -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (8/31/2009 2:37:29 PM)
OK so generally speaking a lot of "consideration collars" are used by people who want all of the fun and none of the committment - and that runs both ways for the Owner and the owned. They are there for people who don't want the responsibility of ownership or do not want to be held accountable for their actions. I wear a collar of consideration. I am under consideration to three Dominants and to our family as a whole. When I first started spending timne with this family in November it was as a guest, a visitor and I was treated as such. Within a few weeks I knew this was something I wanted to be a part of. It took me six months of serving here, of living here part time and "doing my bit" to earn my collar of consideration. Up until the point of that collar I was able to walk away if I so chose. Now I am committed to a period of consideration living and serving to show that I am suited to this lifestyle. It is a consideration which runs both ways however; it is not just my Dominants deciding whether I have what it takes to walk this path in their service, but it is also my opportunity to decide whether I wish to serve the three of them and this family. Soon, when everyone feels it is time, I will be asked to either petition for the removal of the blue consideration collar and to say my goodbyes, or to petition for a formal black training collar and to commit to another fixed term of service. All committments here are specific and fixed term, and those fixed terms are always upheld. No one is left hanging, everyone knows exactly where they stand. Why does it need to be done this way? This is a large family, it is poly, there are relationships here that have stood the test of time and go back many years. Adding someone new into that mix must be done carefully for both my sake and the sakes of every other member of the family. In this context it is both appropriate and productive to have a period of formal consideration. YMMV

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (8/31/2009 2:57:22 PM)
~fast replyWe have a 'consideration period' for our household. It is a minimum of 3 months and may last up to 18 months (though we've never had one go that long). During that period, individuals under consideration live just as if they were full members of the House, but they have no right to invite new potential members, are not allowed to vote on House policy... oh, and our 'consideration period' may include both new servant members -and- new potential free members. After 3-12months, when we were large enough, the council (or, in the absence of the council, the Patriarch or Matriarch) reviewed any concerns and addressed them with the potential member. Now that job falls to either the Matriarch or the member who is acting as a mentor for the newcomer. Some are able and willing to deal with the issues/concerns, others decide that it's too much and choose not to petition for full membership. Usually, 3-6 months after the initial evaluation, the individual petitions for full membership, the members are polled, and the Patriarch/Matriarch makes the final decision about membership. Like everything else, the whole issue of collars of consideration and the ensuing agreements boils down to a couple of simple things 1. before you agree to something, make sure you understand all the terms and make sure they're ones you -really- are willing and able to agree to. 2. Other people have the right to design their relationships any way that works for them -- if I don't like it, I don't have to participate, but I have no right to try to manipulate -their- decisions for my own benefit. In the end, the only people who get to decide what is "a farce" and what isn't are the people who are involved in the dynamic. Dame Calla

lally2 -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (8/31/2009 4:24:21 PM)
i put myself under consideration a day or so ago to spare people wasting their time approaching me. today the man i put myself under consideration for has asked me to mention that it is He who has asked for this. we will be meeting in two weeks time and since we started communicating we have had telephone conversations all day all night and everything in between, our longest so far is 9 hours (our personal best [:)]) - mentioned only because the OP sites phone call restrictions and other such red flags as all part of the subtefuge 'under consideration' engenders. so no it isnt always a farce. sometimes its genuine people making a genuine gesture for genuine reasons.

masterlink65 -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (8/31/2009 4:49:20 PM)
so,,, do you expect a sub to come over thie minute and become a slave by morning? months? big deal. ever hear of patience? i had interviewed slave bruno for over a year. many trips and meetings until agreements and dynamics had been set. where is this drive thru slave service?

MsMillgrove -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (8/31/2009 7:38:48 PM)
I like the phrase of consideration and use it. Don't do a collar tho. After both agree to continue, I do a quiet short, only the two of us,...collar ceremony for a training collar. off line my experiences have been mixed. the one person I might eventually have moved out of a training collar--had to return to native homeland so I had to try again and the next one made a promising start in training and then disappeared into the ether with one of the most bizarre explanations I've ever heard. Starting over again for a 3rd round, I must say I have stamina and determination, but I doubt that I will ever get to a permanent collar at this rate. I do have one collared sub online in SL. We both feel that we'll always be mistress-sub until i am gone, and I believe that with all my heart. It was our second anniversary today.. we had a fantastic celebration. (see Stella's post on what's real online or offline) Usually won't offer a training collar until three months has passed, online or offline. Some subs who serve me, I never collar. They belong to me, but they don't wear a collar. I don't have an explanation for why this is so, it just happens to be so. The phrase is used by people to mean so many things--but I can't see why anyone would accept a consideration period if they hadn't spoken on the phone with no strange restrictions. If I can't speak to a potential sub by phone within two weeks of initial contact, I really don't want to continue. Considering the mail I get, the desperation of subs .. seems to lead them to accept ideas that they normally wouldn't.. and of course come to feel like fools later on. It's sad, but understandable. The search from the sub end is (IMHO only) a lot harder on the subs than it is on the dom/mes. And given how difficult I find it sometimes, I have nothing but compassion for every one of them, no matter how idiotic they come across.

Andalusite -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (8/31/2009 7:46:08 PM)
Are training collars like training wheels, to keep the Dom/me from falling off? [;)] Stroke, while I agree that a "collar of consideration" is a bit silly, not all D/s and M/s folks use collars as a relationship symbol. I was a Domme for 5 years to the submissive who introduced me to BDSM, and a submissive to my last boyfriend/Dominant for 3 years, but we only used collars during play, not as a relationship symbol. My Master hasn't chosen to use a physical token so far, either, but we've still made a commitment to each other, no "consideration" involved.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (9/1/2009 5:22:57 PM)
quote: Are training collars like training wheels, to keep the Dom/me from falling off? Actually, they sort of -are- like training wheels... but as a reminder so the -servant- doesn't 'fall off' from the direction I'm working to train hir. grins Dame Calla

Esinn -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (9/2/2009 10:17:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW ~fast replyWe have a 'consideration period' for our household. Dame Calla This one is for you too, softie. As I felt both were similar..... I would expect all of these replies to be fast. This thread was dug out of the dirt to make a point I have been thinking about since I signed up in June. Rather than start a new thread this dealt with some of my concerns in 'my own' thread which I could not find; although not as detailed or articulate. Your under consideration is more like probationary periods to join a gang/motor club or secure a long term career. I realize your views & house policies do not hinge upon my approval or agreement. However, I believe that is a very reasonable and acceptable policy. A home without such a rule might be a little too chaotic. So you have my approval [8\|] My issue is when it is used by a self described net-dom as a mechanism of control prior to any real attempt at establishing a relationship by both partners UC to me is a cowards method to remove an unsuspecting or well intentioned sub/slave from the 'market'(dating status) who might not be so familiar with themselves or what they seek. I see no issue: Introduction> Courtship>Establish & Identify Ground Rules > Build upon this> UC > Agreement upon what UC is> training(while still UC)> UC as long as the top felt necessary>Feedback>Feedback>Training> Collar Courtship in this context is not much different from 'nilla dating>marriage. It is the predator who does it in any other fashion. I am sure most are tired of this topic - the limited replies. Yet, it is important this information be made available for those who choose to search for it at a later date. It just really hit it home for me when I was speaking with this most recent subbie/slave. She seems fairly sincere, well meaning and kind. She is also able to structure a sentence with good grammER(how sexy is that). I am forced to believe she is intelligent. Yet, she just assumed UC was the way it was. Like the boy who was molested by a priest now as a man tells us he just thought that is how it was - I mentioned earlier 2 posts up. I do not really have a lot more to say on this other than I am absolutely correct. If someone can read my recent addition to this thread(2 posts up) and tell me why I might be wrong then we have something to possibly discuss. Otherwise I just felt it important to archive these thoughts in light of my recent discussion with my new subbie friend. -E

shadowowl -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (9/2/2009 10:35:13 AM)
to me "under consideration" means the D is indecisive and probably has several subs on that list. Of course when I tell Dommes they are "under consideration" they seem to respond very different and will either try to fight for me or stop talking to me all together. But hey until they say they want me and I agree both of us can have others under consideration as much as we want in my opinion. so if I am "under consideration" as a sub/slave then they should expect I'll keep looking for someone that actually wants me. They want my commitment I expect theirs in return.

Esinn -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (9/2/2009 10:57:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shadowowl to me "under consideration" means the D is indecisive and probably has several subs on that list. Of course when I tell Dommes they are "under consideration" they seem to respond very different and will either try to fight for me or stop talking to me all together. But hey until they say they want me and I agree both of us can have others under consideration as much as we want in my opinion. so if I am "under consideration" as a sub/slave then they should expect I'll keep looking for someone that actually wants me. They want my commitment I expect theirs in return. Where is that damn 'clapping happy face icon'. [claps excitedly] Yes, that was my point exactly. Both parties ought to be placed UC after courtship, introduction and meaning is determined. I can see how many bastards(Tops) might get disgusted or outraged at such an attempt. But, it is the only rational thing to do. I have no issue being considered by a sub/slave. In the context of BDSM this is a more difficult and meaningful commitment. My personal thoughts: My profile would be promptly changed to: I am considering. . . I would expect their profile to read Under Consideration. My expectation it would be the same as a engagement, promise or potential wedding ring. I think there is proper(respectable) terminology there for both the top/bottom. Pending the defined terms and the ability to articulate them to the bottom the rules of UC mean whatever is agreed upon. Not actively seeking, not responding to email, not having sex with others... Whatever Good point thank you.

MindOvrMatter -> RE: "Under Consideration" Are most a farce? (9/2/2009 7:15:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RumpusParable quote: ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox Ok, this is something I don’t understand; when a Dom says that he/she is putting a collar of consideration on you... I mean really, what does that mean?? You can’t talk to another Doms while the first one decides whether or not they want you or are they waiting to see if someone else better comes along.. As with any collar, or other relationship label (dating, married, poly, mono, owned, whatever), it's significance and guidelines of behavior are unique to that relationship. The people involved decide and agree on the meaning. Me, I do use collars of consideration. I won't go into all of it, but the general gist is that thta person and I are considering one another for a more serious and long-term arrangement but are in the beginning stages. We've agreed to being a D/s "couple" of the sort we've discussed and are now feeling out how well we really suit one another that way. I do not limit whom they may speak to, but I do make it clear I expect them to not be seeking out other dominants to serve during that time (unless otherwise worked out). It is a step forward in committment before taking absolute ownership. Well put RP...couldn't have said it better myself...I liken it to a nilla relationship, where the couple decides to become exclusive and agree to move towards that possible serious LTR. Exclusive does not mean my submissive can not speak with or have other D's as friends, but they should certainly not be pursuing one. Some will, just like many Doms might also be pursuing or even giving COC's to other subs. In my thinking, that would make it a farce...either way. The Dom must learn to trust his submissive, as he/she is learning to trust her Dom during this process. W/o trust...there is nothing.

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