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“GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/2/2007 4:42:18 PM   
Zensee


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The Kingdom of Bhutan has little to be happy about. It is mountainous, land locked, flanked by powerful and meddlesome neighbours (China and India). It has one of the lowest per capita income levels in the world. Over ninety percent of it’s workers are subsistence farmers but it still has to import food.

Lucky for the Bhutanese, they don’t measure their value as a nation by their Gross Domestic Product (GDP), the gold standard of the developed world. Their King, who will turn his kingdom into a democracy this year, established a different measure of success, way back in the seventies, Gross National Happiness.

By creating policy to serve the well being of the citizens, instead of serving the bottom line, Bhutan has achieved a great deal for its people, despite it’s poverty. Life expectancy has risen from 48 to 66 years, for example. Literacy rates are steadily climbing and within a few years they expect to have universal, primary education. And, surprise, surprise, their good old GDP is faring better too, up 5.3 % in 2003.

http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=676

What a concept, keeping the citizens happy rather than the multinationals.

There is a danger the idea might spread. Canada, that wicked hotbed of niceness, is hosting a conference on the matter, with a delegation from Bhutan heading the roster.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2005/06/20/ns-happiness-meet20050620.html



Z.


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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 1:26:58 AM   
Zensee


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So WTF? Good news is no news?


Z.


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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 2:17:36 AM   
Level


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Good story, Zensee. I read a story about the country a few years ago, maybe in the New Yorker, I'm not sure..... very interesting.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 10:07:57 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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You're just scaring everyone with this talk about happiness, Zensee. WTF?



Americans do not want to live as subsistence level farmers. They gave that up at least 150 years ago...

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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 10:57:26 AM   
Stephann


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With a population of just under 680,000 in land that's highly undesirable, Bhutan seems to be the 'monkey in the middle' between the Chinese/Indian border dispute.  India pays a good portion of Bhutan's treasury expenditures, and is a major customer of their hydroelectric power.

The novel idea that we should measure a country's success on it's happiness rate, in this case, depends solely on the good will of it's (much) larger geographical and political neighbors.  Perhaps if Mars and Venus wish to saddle up and threaten to demolish each other on either side of Earth, we'd find ourselves 'happier' Earthlings...

Stephan


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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 11:24:32 AM   
luckydog1


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Interesting article and Idea Zensee.

"happiness" is a pretty vauge term, it works much like "freedom", in an oft repeated discussion on here. 

I find it hard to think you would be happy in a state enforced absolute monarchy, with a state religion.  There are over 100,000 religous refugees from bhutahn, the Gov basically exiled these communities for refusing to adhere to a social life based on the state religion (the refugees are devout Hindus, there are Hindus living there whop accept the primacy of Bhudim and they get left alone).  Plus they dump cost of the care of these refugees on the UN and India. 

"Happiness in general has to do with being able to balance the two most important aspects of life, and that is the material needs of the human being as well as the spiritual needs," said Jigmi Thinley, Bhutan's home minister.
"Unfortunately, conventional development is biased and it's catering only to the material needs, and we think it's important that both are pursued through deliberate development policies." 

Consider that quote in the context of an official state religion, to me the implications are frightening.

And they require subsudies from both the UN and India (they get those by treaty law, its a semi independant nation) in order to feed the people.  With out outside welfare people would starve.  Without the outside world caring about GDP there would be no surplus to aid them with, and thier life expectancy would fall back to the low 40s.  Thier main economy besides subsistence is hydro electric dams, they sit on the mouth of sevral Himalayan glacier fed rivers.  They do not allow backpacking tourists, which I suppose makes the people happier.

Literacy is of little value if there is nothing but local language religious oriented stuff to read, they are not teaching them Chinese or English in thier schools.  Animal Farm does a wonderful job of exlaining how literacy isn't necessarily usefull. 

There is a promise to become a constitutional monarchy someday, which isn't exactly democracy.  And the King is setting up his son to continue to dominate things.

I don't see Bhuttan as a paradise. 

Plato wrote thousands of years ago about different forms of Government.  The best form of governemnt he concluded was a benign despot.  A Philosopher king.  Slaves with a wise and just Master.  And it is in many ways.  The king of Bhuttan has not been an insane hedonist or sadistic monster.  But there is a huge problem of succesion and sustainability in such a system.  And you can bet the grandson of the Just Wise King, will be a spoiled brat.  Its just the way the world turns.  I see the same flaw in Socialism (at least of the Marxist/revolutionary varieties) in general.

Are there some inteeresting things to be considered about the Bhuttaese model?  Sure, but look at the place for real, not through rose covered glasses.  Wiht out outsiders coming in with technological assistance and welfare, the Bhuttanese would not be nearly as happy, and the place would be a lot like N Korea.  Kim Jong ill (or at least his dad did, the current leader in some ways is the example of the problem of a worthy successor) thinks he is doing the same thing as the king of Bhuttan

People probably would be happy if they were slaves and all knowledge was fed to them.  And they had an enforced religion, which they actually believed.  Several posters often hark back to the middle ages as a happy time in Europeon history, happier than today.  Back when common people didn't even get to know about big problems.  They were treated as slaves in a religious run world.  Ignorance is bliss, in someways that is true. 

But I am with Plato on this say its a bad way to go.  A truley open society has checks and balances, and along with literacy a freedom of ideas.

I like the last few paragraphs of the article.

"As Bhutan talks about the concept of gross national happiness as the outcome that they want to see for their country and their people, Coady talked about the good society," said Coyle, conference co-chair.
"I believe that Coady talked about – and that we're all still striving for – is one where there's a vibrant Bhuttan can't feed its people yet fair there is an insane disparity of wealth between the nobles and farmers economy, is one where people have a voice BHuttan is an Absolute Monarchy and there's good governance Extremely debatable, and it is only semi independant anyway, and that the environment is preserved and enhanced Hydro electric dams being built with foriegn labor."

The stuff in Red is reading between the lines and inserted by me

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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 12:46:39 PM   
Muttling


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“GNH” (nothing gross about happiness)
 
 
Am I the only one who's trying to figure out how GNH is an acronym for nothing gross about happiness?

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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 12:59:22 PM   
NorthernGent


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'May not last long, Z.....they've been infiltrated by English music and they're getting into English football and basketball......advertising and commercials are now taking root. The king is trying keep a lid on it....... 

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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 2:05:51 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

You're just scaring everyone with this talk about happiness, Zensee. WTF?



Americans do not want to live as subsistence level farmers. They gave that up at least 150 years ago...


Yeah Zensee, don't talk about "happyness" here you'll have the Lefties and Moonbats yelling at you!
They scored lowest on that "mental health" thread.
They're just looking for a target!

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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 2:19:42 PM   
Zensee


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Well I certainly didn't intend to suggest that Bhutan was a paradise or that using Gross National Happiness as a benchmark was a magic bullet, just that there are other ways of setting policy. Certainly Bhutan is heavily dependent on foreign aid, from countries that use GDP as their measure of success but it does not follow that, therefore, GDP is a superior yardstick. It can be argued that adherence the the GDP has driven the sort of predatory policies which have continued to repress the third world, Bhutan included.

I'd disagree that literacy is not an end in itself. For any individual it is of great importance even if it is of limited utility right now. The rest of the world is closer than ever.

Bhutan is a Monarchy but it is gearing up to become a democracy and, as we know, even the most staunch and experienced western democracies (cough cough) have trouble extending the expected freedoms to all citizens and must constantly struggle to limit the power of their aristocracies or to expose and restrict the legislative and extra-legislative abuses of the elected. Abuse of power is not a symptom exclusive to despots.

Bhutan, like all countries, is a work in progress. I think it is a little premature to dismiss it's efforts to join the new millennium. It's isolation is neither absolute nor enforced, it is an accident of history which is currently being corrected. The devil may be in the details but we all know that from our own historical experience. Let those western democracies without sin cast all the stones they like.

Considering the close call in Venezuela and the virtual coronation of Czar Vladimir in Russia, we might be heartened that a hereditary king is willing to risk handing over the reins to elected representatives and that he does so informed by an enlightened policy - that a country should first look to the happiness of its people.



Z.

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RE: “GNH” (nothing gross about happiness) - 12/3/2007 3:56:31 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

“GNH” (nothing gross about happiness)
 
 
Am I the only one who's trying to figure out how GNH is an acronym for nothing gross about happiness?


It isn't. GNH = Gross National Happiness, Zensee was saying that there is nothing gross about being happy.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 11
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