RE: References -Good Idea or Bad?

RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (Full Version)

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velvetears -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/2/2007 8:45:20 PM)
i would not ask for them nor would i give them. my past partners are not privy to what i do now nor do i want them to be - and i keep in touch with them. i would not trust a reference given - what idiot is going to gove you the name of anyone who will blast them? For all i know it could be some sub he has chained under his bed in fear that the phone is tapped and she'll get beaten is she doesn't paint him like a prince - far fetched but you get the idea. Even as someone said earlier job references are a joke - the good and bad ones.

LadyChef -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/2/2007 8:58:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40 How common is it for vanilla-relationship searchers to seek formal references? What makes BDSM different from vanilla in this regard? Aww come on now. You don't have to keep the secret anymore. You can tell the truth. Us kinksters [8\|] are *special* , therefore, we need *special* means of finding partners. Geesh...[&:] [8D] ooohhh, So true... and more difficult as well. I just spent time this weekend with My two closest long time girlfriends (both over 10 years) and came out of the dungeon, so to speak. They both seem to love and respect Me more for opening up to them about what I like to do behind closed doors. We had a lot of laughs comparing notes, Me showing them collarme and other sites I frequent. Now as far as them believing I will find a quality partner who reaches the mark I set....that's another thread.

IrishMist -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/2/2007 9:57:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyChef quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40 How common is it for vanilla-relationship searchers to seek formal references? What makes BDSM different from vanilla in this regard? Aww come on now. You don't have to keep the secret anymore. You can tell the truth. Us kinksters [8\|] are *special* , therefore, we need *special* means of finding partners. Geesh...[&:] [8D] ooohhh, So true... and more difficult as well. I just spent time this weekend with My two closest long time girlfriends (both over 10 years) and came out of the dungeon, so to speak. They both seem to love and respect Me more for opening up to them about what I like to do behind closed doors. We had a lot of laughs comparing notes, Me showing them collarme and other sites I frequent. Now as far as them believing I will find a quality partner who reaches the mark I set....that's another thread. Are you going to seriously tell me that you could not decipher the heavy sarcasm in my remarks? /shakes head in disbelief

rmanrr -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/2/2007 10:01:57 PM)
Greetings (tongue firmly in cheek) hmmmm.....leafing through My handy dandy quick reference guide to finding references......credibility...blank pages, ok.....where to look....hmmm blank pages...hmmmm.....ex's....nope not there.....hmmmm.....subs I have known and released....nope.....slaves owned and released....nope....hmmmm.....Dom's I have pissed off cause I was not twue....nope....hmmmm......I know....the guy I smacked upside the head and threw out of the office for being drunk on the job! there....that ought to do it.

IrishMist -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/2/2007 10:07:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rmanrr Greetings (tongue firmly in cheek) hmmmm.....leafing through My handy dandy quick reference guide to finding references......credibility...blank pages, ok.....where to look....hmmm blank pages...hmmmm.....ex's....nope not there.....hmmmm.....subs I have known and released....nope.....slaves owned and released....nope....hmmmm.....Dom's I have pissed off cause I was not twue....nope....hmmmm......I know....the guy I smacked upside the head and threw out of the office for being drunk on the job! there....that ought to do it. LMFAO Now that was good...thank you, I needed a good laugh tonight.

shootingstar67 -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 12:08:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: ORIGINAL: LadyChef quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40 How common is it for vanilla-relationship searchers to seek formal references? What makes BDSM different from vanilla in this regard? Aww come on now. You don't have to keep the secret anymore. You can tell the truth. Us kinksters [8\|] are *special* , therefore, we need *special* means of finding partners. Geesh...[&:] [8D] ooohhh, So true... and more difficult as well. I just spent time this weekend with My two closest long time girlfriends (both over 10 years) and came out of the dungeon, so to speak. They both seem to love and respect Me more for opening up to them about what I like to do behind closed doors. We had a lot of laughs comparing notes, Me showing them collarme and other sites I frequent. Now as far as them believing I will find a quality partner who reaches the mark I set....that's another thread. Are you going to seriously tell me that you could not decipher the heavy sarcasm in my remarks? /shakes head in disbelief Miss High School Much?

shootingstar67 -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 12:12:37 AM)
I have received without asking references for a dom in my local community. Of course if I had his rep I'd spread it about too. But I am less inclined to think that just because everyone loves some one..that they really know him. Or that he doesn't carefully choose someone to victimize based on targetabilty.

eyesopened -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 1:52:59 AM)
There is a Dom who has contacted me from time to time who loves to name-drop all kinds of Lifestyle people and events and brags in every missive of how well known and popular he is. i don't know a single name he throws out. What he says is meaningless to me. i have never even been interested in this guy so i've never understood what he was trying to tell me. How can i be 'duly impressed' if i don't know the people he was talking about? One evening, after a munch, a group of us were out to dinner and some people at our table were talking about an intervention they had to do for some poor submissive who was in a seriously abusive relationship, The Dom had been banned from two local dungeons for his behavior. A scene was described as the bottom screaming out her safeword and the Dom refusing to stop, then arguing with the dungeon Master. Yep, it was the same Dom who had all these wonderful references! Now, had i contacted the names he'd thrown out, would i have been made aware of his dangerous behavior? i only learned about it in the most off-hand way. Funny. my 'gut' told me there was something wrong with this guy from the very first email.....

Focus50 -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 2:42:45 AM)
I have occasionally used them as a requirement of entry to a few private functions but that's my limit. As far as dealing with a fem/sub goes, I don't ask for references and I don't offer them. My instincts tell me all I generally need to know and I assume the same for those fem/subs who became more than email distractions in my life.... What is it about the Xmas season and 'references' threads - making the most of the overt hostility around this time of year? lol Focus.

DesFIP -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 3:38:48 AM)
They're only effective if you play publicly and only select your partners from a local group. With LDRs being so common, they are of no use there. And they don't tell you anything about the relationship, just skill in s & m. Because if you're only interested in people who have long term relationships, you can hardly approach someone's exwife and expect an objective response.

IrishMist -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 4:36:14 AM)
quote: Miss High School Much? Oooo...an attempt....not a good one , but at least you tried. You get a star for that.

HalloweenWhite -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 4:46:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael If you don't know what to ask and who to ask for references they may well be worthless. However like any tool, the better you understand them the more useful they can be. There people, have your discussion here and not in my thread... I don't *trust* in the words of others; I *trust* my own *instincts* about people. So...for me...references mean absolutly shit. I suppose references -can- be useful, but only in terms of general information "what's so-and-so like" etc. Any deeper and you might start getting more of someone's theory on someone and less "fact", but it depends ultimately on who you ask and what you ask, even how you ask a question. In the end I'd say find out what someone's like by asking people who know them better than you, then take your time getting to know them if you still want to based on what you've been told. Also, you might find it helpful to see how they interact with others.

IrishMist -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 4:52:47 AM)
quote: I suppose references -can- be useful, but only in terms of general information "what's so-and-so like" etc. Any deeper and you might start getting more of someone's theory on someone and less "fact", but it depends ultimately on who you ask and what you ask, even how you ask a question. In the end I'd say find out what someone's like by asking people who know them better than you, then take your time getting to know them if you still want to based on what you've been told. Also, you might find it helpful to see how they interact with others. I will not disagree with anything you have said here. I know there are a great many out there who *do have impeccable references*, both good and bad, that they are willing to offer to any who ask. Just, for myself, there are reasons that I have to rely only on my instincts about someone; and I usually use a first impression instinct to base my thoughts on.

DulcetDuress -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 5:18:23 AM)
I don't believe that references are either good or bad persay; I do however find the idea of using them personally to be almost comical. I don't know how many people in my own life I have heard wonderful things about only to discover that these things were falsetruths and I'm referring to everyday people...potential friends, co-workers, etc. The same can be applied to hearing negative things of an individual and later discovering through interaction that the rumors--for that's what these things can often be boiled down to, were again..untrue. Slandering other human beings beyond ourselves, regardless of how self rightous we'd like to be, is commonplace throughout life's many verities and again, speaking positively about somoene who doesn't eventually warrant it by his or her actions applies also. Right, wrong or indifferent, I believe the only true way to know another person is to take the opportunity[ies] presented in exploring as much regarding them. Assessing another individual's character is not something I would or will make inquiries about to other people as experiences will rarely be the same and I do not believe it is correct to assume another's character by the judgements of other people. The singular logical case to this would be in the rare example stated already of the woman who gave her former employer/co-worker's name to her master based on the duties she performed for the man. I think of some of the biasedly most intelligent and admirable individuals I have read about such as Thoreau who in his time was often looked upon as a social moron for being the individualist that he was and I am left mesmerized by some of his writings which are both arguably profound as well as based on introspection over a lifetime. He was a renowned loner. I somehow doubt there are any corpses to be found in Walden Woods [what's left of it] from his personal choice to live as such for the time that he did. Ultimately, as one suggested, gut instinct prevails for me personally and this in itself is not to say that other personally utilized methodologies of getting to know a person are not dually applied for logically they are. It is a personal choice to risk or not to risk and ultimately, what's right for you may not be right for me in how this risk is taken and/or achieved in the character assessment of another human being.

Rover -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 6:31:45 AM)
Fast Reply to no one in particular... Some folks use referecnes, and others do not. I certainly wouldn't portray one or the other as "right" for everyone. But for those that do (on occasion) utilize references, these are some reasons to do so: 1. "Gut instinct" is great, and I'm sure everyone uses that as well. But "gut instinct" requires an investment in time and effort. Some don't wish to invest the time and effort into every anonymous individual they come across that might have some interest in them, only to find out that they're lying about who they are, their association with organized BDSM, their "experience" or "skill level", their reputation, etc. Take Collarme for example... what percentage of folks are claiming to be something they are not? 2. Many folks who utilize references prefer to rely upon those from recognized groups/organizations rather than other anonymous individuals. An reference for an anonymous individual for another anonymous individual isn't very valuable. A reference (like any information) is only as good as its source... and a group/organization is a more reliable (yet not infallible) source than an anonymous individual. Of course, we all (every one of us) utilizes mutual friends and acquaintances as references, whether we call them "references" or not. 3. No one would suggest that references should be the singular source of information for anyone. However, they can be one of many sources of valuable information to (at the very least) confirm some of the basic information that someone has told you about themselves (are they currently collared or do they own another submissive/slave?... are they active, and welcome, in the local community?... do they attend workshops etc. and engage in ongoing education?... beyond personal issues, do they have a problem with their reputation such as inappropriate touching, problems with DM's/problems with scenes, etc.). 4. A reluctactance to rely upon the veracity of references and their portrayal as "gossip" (good or bad, right or wrong) really has no merit. Because everyone relies upon information provided from third parties at one time or another, and thinks nothing of it unless it's called a "reference". 5. For all the online bluster about "fakes and wannabes", it's disturbing that folks would disparage sources of information that would make it more difficult for them to ply their trade. I guess they deserve what they get, if and when they get it. 6. I personally agree with Jack Rinella, in that I view "loners" with suspicion and draw conclusions from that fact. That's not particularly pertinent for those that are new, but becomes increasingly so as one's "experience" or "skill" level increases. Just a few of my own thoughts. John

subtee -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 6:38:21 AM)
Just curious, does this mean you would not engage with someone who is not involved in their local BDSM community? There are many reasons that many choose not to do so...

DulcetDuress -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 6:41:46 AM)
Intelligently stated and it is safe to say we can agree to disagree based on literal points made and taken. Hm..as a sidenote, you look like JR Ewing.

IrishMist -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 6:42:17 AM)
Rover I will not disagree with what you have said here; in fact, if a new comer was to ask my opinion about such things, I would stress the need to get out there and actually 'interact, personally " with others. I do not advise gut instinct for everyone because I know from experience that sometimes instinct is wrong. However, I am also one of those who advise not to play or become involved with someone without taking the time to get to know them; which would mean...investing the time needed.

Jeffff -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 8:12:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist Rover I will not disagree with what you have said here; in fact, if a new comer was to ask my opinion about such things, I would stress the need to get out there and actually 'interact, personally " with others. I do not advise gut instinct for everyone because I know from experience that sometimes instinct is wrong. However, I am also one of those who advise not to play or become involved with someone without taking the time to get to know them; which would mean...investing the time needed. The wisdom of this seems to me to be self evident. I would like to add, that when people give names for references, they seldom give someone who is gonna call you an asshole Jeff

Rover -> RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? (12/3/2007 8:30:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee Just curious, does this mean you would not engage with someone who is not involved in their local BDSM community? There are many reasons that many choose not to do so... As I've said in previous posts, I would not necessarily exclude someone who was not active in their local BDSM community, though that would be one (of many) factors to consider. Personally, I'm active in my own community and travel frequently to events and other communities. If someone is unable and/or unwilling to accompany me, that would be a significant factor. If they have simply not been motivated to do so, did not know how to do so, or did not have the desire to do so alone, it would be a rather minor factor. John

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