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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 6:23:28 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

I felt as though I showed him how much I trusted him that I would continue to try even though it was futile... He never did or said anything to me that suggested he felt me a fool... he was rather proud of me.

I get that...and its good that it works for you both... TO ME it just would have felt like being set up to fail is all.



Honestly breath, I'm not suggesting you should do something you can't or dont feel comforable with or that you're like me, but it probably wouldn't feel like being set up to fail.  I'm a bit of an uptight perfectionist myself and see things rather literally at times and it doesn't to me.

My partner does the impossible task scenario also because he is an evil bastard like that, I actually laugh alot during it despite the fact when I don't do this impossible thing he does something painful (and not erotic type pain) to me.  Whether it be talk clearly while in a full gag, or don't move when you are in pain and he's physically moving you with his body, don't stop doing x when you're being overstimulated and can't concentrate, it doesn't feel like failure, it feels at times, humorous or like a game, other times frustrating or annoying or even scary in a how long can I keep this up sort of way.  I keep trying to come as close as I can to do the impossible thing (maybe I'll actually do it and win the impossible game), maybe even find a way to make it possible, but I never feel ashamed that I can't do something that's not possible and it's never entered my mind that he considers it a failure as he's the one that set it up knowing I couldn't do it.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 6:35:23 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

It's very, very reassuring in the end to know that no matter how dumb I can potentially look, he'll still love and cherish me.

But see I already do KNOW my Master/Daddy loves me no matter what, without (your words here) "looking potentially dumb"



Of course, but that's what makes it NOT unpleasant, your faith in him.  It's kind of like when he's going to inflict physical pain and you don't know exactly what he's going to do or how you will respond and you have anticipation and some nervousness, but much more intense than that.  Not knowing can be considered a mind fuck in and of itself I think.

I'm not trying to talk you into it, just trying to explain it may be much simplier than you think and not as severe.  However, we don't at all do any type of you're fat, you're ugly, you're stupid or any of that mindfuck/humiliation insulting thing and I'm not sure I could do that as it would make me prone to telling him to fly a kite (although much stronger than that ) and out of whatever mindset I was in.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 6:35:56 PM   
Vanatru


Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		mmm liver yum! still needs to be just slightly pink in the middle (not bloody though). dang! it's been too long since I had it last, it's going on the grocery list though now... maybe with some brussel sprouts, yeah.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 7:28:42 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanatru

mmm liver yum! still needs to be just slightly pink in the middle (not bloody though). dang! it's been too long since I had it last, it's going on the grocery list though now... maybe with some brussel sprouts, yeah.


See?  That's a simple mind fuck.  and blech!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Vanatru)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 8:37:21 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's not about masochism, it's much more the adrenaline like the thrill of a roller coaster "OMG WTF my body isn't supposed to be in this position relative to the Earth, this is crazy AUGH!".

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 12/8/2007 8:38:13 PM >

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 8:59:03 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		i want to thank everyone who posted so far, it's given me much to ponder.  What i have come away with is that there can be a myriad of intents and degrees to MF's - it can, but not necessarily, be tied to emotional masochism and humiliation.  Some see them as tearing down while others see them as building up and bonding.  i think everyone agrees it plays with trust - whether they think that is a positive or good things depends.  



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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 1:37:13 AM   
Mastaziel


Posts: 67
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		loving torment, does it matter if it's mental or physical? I mean discussion and talk about hard limits should be something you'd have already covered. mind fucks might not be for every one, but even a blindfold is a small mind fuck. taunting and teaseing your senses and mind while you're bound and blindfolded.
the same limits on your mind play as on your physical, to hurt but not harm. like anything, some will go further, some like it harder, some will not like it at all.
the scars to the relationship, trust, and emotions could be devastating. but then for those who enjoy it and explore their personal limits of it, the rewards can be great.
I love the thought Myself, with no practical experiance yet, and My only play being online, mind fucks are one of the only ways I can touch, pleasure and torment a partner. not sure how others view it, (other than opinions stated in this thread) but My view isn't one of testing. rather it's one of exploration, of sliding Myself sweetly into the mind of who ever I'm playing with, carefully leading them on a trip through our shared dark thoughts to places that we might never reach in RL.
just being able to touch your partner so deeply sounds attractive to Me is all....well...not all...the power trip is kinda cool too.
both physical and mind play go together so well, complement each other and enhance what ever you're doing I'd think.

that's only My view on it from the limited experiance I've had at least.

Hugs and bites

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~~~:Torment is just another word for affection:~~~

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 2:09:37 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		There is NO WAY...in my opinion  that "hurting" someone mentally as long as you don't "harm" them mentally is ok in ANY way shape or form...hurting physically can heal...bruises heal. Mental "hurt" stays ....you cant "unknow" something...or "unexperience" something...so physical play...is MUCH different then mental.....those "mental bruises" don't go away.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 2:11:20 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		breath, did you read my posts where I tried to explain to you how I experience it?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 2:13:27 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

breath, did you read my posts where I tried to explain to you how I experience it?

Yes Ma'am....


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Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 2:15:29 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how to explain it, but I've never experienced anything remotely harmful and you have mail.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 2:19:04 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

the same limits on your mind play as on your physical, to hurt but not harm.
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I'm not sure how to explain it, but I've never experienced anything remotely harmful and you have mail.

This is the quote from another poster I was replying to...
"the same limits on your mind play as on your physical, to hurt but not harm."



_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 3:18:22 AM   
Mastaziel


Posts: 67
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		Mmm, hurt not harm. physical hurts heal. so do mental. I wasn't referring to deeply scaring mental wounds. apologies if you find the terms I used inappropriate. Just giving My view on this topic.
I'm just a tad sadistic, but generally a nice guy. (honest) but if I was playing with someone who actually enjoyed feeling fear, or wanted the helpless feeling of being under My foot, it would be easier to push the physical aspects by incorporating mental play. as has been said, a simple blindfold could be considered mental play, you're isolating the person, giving them stimulation that feels so much MORE due to the increase in other senses, and that increase happens because the mind is starved for stimulus. if you're trying to inspire helplessness then sensory deprivation can do wonders.

bound loosely to a wall, with what ever safe guards you might usually use in place, and get whipped.
or....
bound loosely to a wall, with what ever safe guards you might usually use in place, be referred to as "the victim", have a bull whip brought out for you to see and hear cracking and then being very lightly stroked with the leather, echos in the room of the whip through the room, then be blindfolded and the last thing you see is a nasty sadistic smile on their face,...and then be whipped....I could use a celery stick if I create the scene correctly in your head.

now as I said, I've had no practical experiance with rl play. I is a cyber freak, but I am trying to broaden My knowledge and experiance. so if I'm talking out My arse can you let Me know so I can add it to My resume under skills.

Hugs and bites.



{edited because I had used the wrong there their...er...their there???..blah I'm tired and it's late.}

< Message edited by Mastaziel -- 12/9/2007 4:01:39 AM >

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~~~:Torment is just another word for affection:~~~

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 4:11:41 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Mind fucks don't undermine trust in a relationship, as long as the other person is made aware that it was mind fuck after the fact.   If anything good mind fucks, can build trust, explore fears and test limits at times.

It all depends upon the reasoning and madness behind the mind fuck.  For the most role playing is a mind fuck, where people pretend to be something they are not. 

There are times, when I will mind fuck with somebody, such as making comments out loud about the many different things I am thinking about doing to them.  Even more so If I mention a thought that happens to be a soft or hard limit.

Better yet, when I pretend I'm doing something to them but not really.  

Here's a mind fuck I pulled once!!    I pretended to cut a big chunk of her hair off with my knife.   Being the Devious bastard that I am.   Amazing thing about being sneaky enough to collect hair during a hair cut.   Though all you have to do, is get hair be it real or fake that matches her hair color. 

One night during a scene when I had her ass all nicely restained and tied up, I pretended to be a little fucking crazy, and threaten to shave her head Bald like Sinead O'Conner.   Yeah, Yeah, at first she did not believe me.   I looked down at her and commented about her not believing me.   Laughed out loud, then took out my knife, and told her I was going to cut chunks out at a time.   I had already had a stash of hair planted a head of time.  When I was pretending to cut her hair.. I made certain she could see the knife move front of her eyes upward above her head... I collected a big chunk of her hair in my hand, and used the back side of my knife to pretend I was cutting it.   Works Great when You are Pulling on the hair very hard.. the rubbing action of the knife tugs on the hair, where they can feel it.  When you let go of thier hair... it feels like it's been cut off.  Since their hands are restrained and no mirrors around to know otherwise...  Just reach into stash for a chunk of hair... then show it in your clinched hand in front of her eyes!!  For added effect, lay it down where she can see it.. or on her body where she can feel it.

OK, so there I am mindfucking her to death.   I'm doing something she never thought I'd never would do.  She's having to explore all kinds of thoughts, and emotions.  However, when it's all said and done, she realizes that it had been a bit of a practical joke, where I forced her to mentally explore a limit.   Also, forced her to explore her trust in me and all that.  I never actually cut her hair, but at the time she did not know any better.   Case in point of hurting somebody but not causing any harm like they imagined I was doing. 

Mind fucks can be a bit like practical jokes...  just like practical jokes, some people do or don't respond well to them.  A good sense of humor and self-esteem are important.



< Message edited by Owner4SexSlave -- 12/9/2007 4:15:01 AM >

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 6:03:02 AM   
salilus


Posts: 201
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Suspending disbelief is at the core of your being able to enjoy mind fucks.  i would never want anyone to make me loose my self worth though.  All those things you mentioned - are they emotionally draining when you go through them?  Enduring and doing things that are difficult i can relate to, just not the mind fuck part.  i don't need it, my submission and devotion will bring me to that place myself.


Hi. I'll answer a couple things whole I'm answering your question.

1. I'm guessing it's probably emotional draining when it's happening.
2. I have very good self esteem.
3. I'm healthier, mentally and physically, then I ever have been in my life (not because of the mind f*ck - I'm just making a statement).
4. My owner and I have been together almost four years and have only started delving into this sort of play in the last four or five months. He knows what will put me and keep me in a certain mindset and exactly what will bring me back. There is no lasting damage. In fact, if I'm feeling sluggish or blah, having a mind f*ck of this nature actually recharges me, makes me feel better (when it's done), and kicks my libido into overdrive (again, after it's done).
5. Rape, humiliation, degradation, being forced to have orgasms and actually believing all of it, mind you, have been fantasies of mine for an extremely long time.
6. No one is 'not strong enough' because they wouldn't do/wouldn't like this sort of thing. They're probably smart, quite frankly. Even the most transparent submissive may never give up the keys to those parts of their mind and even the most observant dominant may never know exactly how to use said keys without damaging the submissive. I know very few people who even go to these lengths successfully.

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 8:22:25 AM   
jmslilbytch


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		I would say that for the most part, I enjoy MFs. Depending on what kind, it is one hell of a rush. Especially if it is the kind that will keep you on edge. Such as, He postpones punishment quite frequently. I never really know when it's coming, or if it is. That slight edge of fear, and what comes with it can be really intense.
The degrading type of MFs, I don't really like either; as they tend to make me wonder if He really means what He's saying at the time, or just messing with my head. The comforting side is that I have always been able to clarify it later with Him. If it has to do with a fault that I have, I have to take it for what is worth or discuss it with Him later. I agree that you can't have low self esteem and deal with those kinds of mind games.
As with anything else, it's not for everybody. Certain aspects I like, even crave. Other aspects I don't like even a little. Mind you, the only say I have is what He allows. So, if you happen to put yourself where I am, (not that you would), best to have the trust and understanding of eachother or be strong enough to handle it.

(in reply to salilus)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 8:27:20 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I think there is a correllation between the so called Five Stages of Grief and why people enjoy being mind fucked in a scene...


  1. Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
  2. Anger: "Why ME? It's not fair!" (either referring to God, oneself, or anybody perceived, rightly or wrongly, as "responsible")
  3. Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my child(ren) graduate."
  4. Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
  5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."

It's only a new thought, so I haven't explored the ins and outs of this line of thinking ... but when I look back on the minor and major mind fucks I've done or being party to in scene setting ... the submissive party displayed the behaviours described above. ..

A good mind fuck is like being taken to the edge of a cliff ...and not been thrown off ... or if you are ...there is a net to catch your fall ...



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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 8:43:56 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

I think there is a correllation between the so called Five Stages of Grief and why people enjoy being mind fucked in a scene...
  1. Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
  2. Anger: "Why ME? It's not fair!" (either referring to God, oneself, or anybody perceived, rightly or wrongly, as "responsible")
  3. Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my child(ren) graduate."
  4. Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
  5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."
It's only a new thought, so I haven't explored the ins and outs of this line of thinking ... but when I look back on the minor and major mind fucks I've done or being party to in scene setting ... the submissive party displayed the behaviours described above. ..

A good mind fuck is like being taken to the edge of a cliff ...and not been thrown off ... or if you are ...there is a net to catch your fall ...



Jasmyn,
This is an interesting contribution to the thread... thank you

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 10:00:47 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

One of his fav's was
Instructed me to remove all his toys from the bag and clean them laying them out in the particular way he enjoyed using them in. He asked me questions while I cleaned...my thoughts about how it would feel to have that used on me...making me express my desires...inserting some of his ideas..
making me extremely hot and wiggly with thoughts and feelings..
The he told me to re-pack everything up. of course, complimenting me for a job well done and what a good girl I had been....groan and growl..
sure felt like a mind fuck to me..
  And this is a good example of a very subtle form of mindfuck  that can be quite erotic, the expectation as he is talking is that play will occur after the cleaning of the toys , the discussion about how they will be used makes the sub all hot and bothered  then suddenly he says pack them away , and she is left horny as heck wanting more.    these types of mindfucks can help increase desire and help to let the guard down of  even newbie subs making them crave and want to submit even more.   My former dom was an expert as this as does so without causing humiliation/degradation unless he has a sub that specifically get off on that sort of play, and it does take a creative mind to keep building the sexual arousal/tension/desire. we got into a discussion about this type of erotic mindfucks as well as erotic tasking assignments just a couple weeks ago, as he wants me to consider mentoring under him to become a  domme with the focus being on eroticism .   I have turned him down because I am not ready to even consider but the conversation did leave me in awe at just how creative he is. And I can understand why he says the brain is really the main and most powerful  sex organ we have.

It was shortly after this conversation that I read the following post by AAkasha a pro domme and realized she works much the same way
AAkasha gave an example in her second post in this thread of how she uses the same type of thing for  phone domination  and how it could become erotically stimulating for the sub even though no face to face ever occured, but the male sub in this case ended up having a bigger turn on/arousal than he had with pro dommes he spent physical time with  http://www.collarchat.com/m_1430488/mpage_1/key_phone/tm.htm#1430931


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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/9/2007 11:07:52 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

I think there is a correllation between the so called Five Stages of Grief and why people enjoy being mind fucked in a scene...

  1. Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
  2. Anger: "Why ME? It's not fair!" (either referring to God, oneself, or anybody perceived, rightly or wrongly, as "responsible")
  3. Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my child(ren) graduate."
  4. Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
  5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."


It's only a new thought, so I haven't explored the ins and outs of this line of thinking ... but when I look back on the minor and major mind fucks I've done or being party to in scene setting ... the submissive party displayed the behaviours described above. ..

A good mind fuck is like being taken to the edge of a cliff ...and not been thrown off ... or if you are ...there is a net to catch your fall ...



/nods

I could see this being pretty much right. I can honestly say that every mind fuck I have ever gone through has had these steps involved.

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